g3taso Posted May 24, 2016 Report Share Posted May 24, 2016 I've got an idea for the power but can't seem to find a good way to express it in the system. The power is being unnoticeable, like the tradecraft our spies practice to vanish in a crowd but magnified to a minor power in itself. The character isn't invisible, far from it. He's just not noticeable and you forget the features instantly. The subway worker still collected your token and even answered your question about the stops along the route and you vanished from their mind the minute you left. An alert guard you passed in a wealthy estate might remember later that someone had passed him, dismissed without a thought as a servant or some other individual who belongs there. You might say the power is that of making the person accepted as normal and dismissed. It won't help in combat, of course. So without detailing my failures in presenting this, I'd like to see some of your ideas. I'm 5e but I can probably read Hero Designer 6 easily enough Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Marcus Posted May 24, 2016 Report Share Posted May 24, 2016 Invisibility to Sight, no Fringe, with Invisible Powers Effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surrealone Posted May 25, 2016 Report Share Posted May 25, 2016 This is just Stealth defined as an Unremarkable Appearance. i.e. It's the same effect as not being seen ... but instead of not being seen, it's being so normal as to blend in with everyone else who WAS seen. Some GM's might require a Stealth roll with a complimentary Acting roll ... to behave normally (the Acting part) while moving/blending properly (the Stealth part) with others. i.e. You just finished running your tail off to get around a corner ... and must now walk normally up to purchase a bus ticket ... while breathing and talking normally despite being winded. (Truly painful GM's might slap a CON roll on top of both rolls ... to control breathing ... but I'd think Acting would get that.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eepjr24 Posted May 25, 2016 Report Share Posted May 25, 2016 Lots of routes to take here, depending on HOW you see the power as working. Stealth Invisibility, Bright Fringe (-1/4) Mental Illusions, Self Only (-1), Only to generate a non-descript illusion of a person they expect to see. Area of Effect. Probably 4d6 would be enough. Shape Shift, Affects Body Only (-1/2), Limited Effect (Normal Sight Only) In the first instance, it is purely skill. You are perceived, but as part of the normal surroundings. Next two are more "power" oriented, with bright fringe being that they see you with features, but not the "real" you. I like Shape Shift the best, but you would probably need to pair it with some KS's to know what types of people would be expected in a place, etc. Fits best with the spy scenario for me. - E Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdamnhero Posted May 25, 2016 Report Share Posted May 25, 2016 Presumably, people get at least some chance to notice and remember the guy, right? How do you see that working, and what is that based on? Is that based on a simple PER Roll, or something more like an EGO Roll? If the former, the simplest route is probably to just make a Custom Skill ("Inobtrusiveness?"), based on PRE or maybe INT? An Invisibility variant would also work if you want it to be more sure-fire. If you see the target as getting an EGO Roll, then that sounds more like Mental Illusions. You could also go with Mind Control "Ignore Me", but Illusions seems closer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g3taso Posted May 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 25, 2016 Mebbe lowered perception rolls is a good way to go. Like in Change Environment? That's an idea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eepjr24 Posted May 25, 2016 Report Share Posted May 25, 2016 Something like this? (6e build) CE: -4 to Sight Per Roll, 0 End (+1/2), AOE Radius: 16m (+3/4) (16 Active Points); Only perception checks against me (-1), Only to make features unmemorable (-1) 5 RP Basically, everyone sees your features as if they were viewed from about 100 feet away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g3taso Posted May 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 25, 2016 Something like this? (6e build) CE: -4 to Sight Per Roll, 0 End (+1/2), AOE Radius: 16m (+3/4) (16 Active Points); Only perception checks against me (-1), Only to make features unmemorable (-1) 5 RP Basically, everyone sees your features as if they were viewed from about 100 feet away. I was thinking something similar. Unobtrusive Appearance: Change Environment 1" radius, -4 to Sight Group PER Rolls (14 Active Points); Limited Power Only perception checks against me (-1), Limited Power Cannot be established if under observation (-1/2), Requires A Stealth Roll (-1/2), No Range (-1/2) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sinanju Posted May 25, 2016 Report Share Posted May 25, 2016 I bought it as Shapeshift with No Visible Power Effect. Since it was a "dream logic" power, the effect was the character, Raven, didn't look any different. Anyone who saw her would recognize her. They just wouldn't find it odd or upsetting in any way that she was present...even if she was sitting at the table with the mafia dons who wanted to kill her. They took her presence for granted as perfectly normal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted May 25, 2016 Report Share Posted May 25, 2016 There are probably a dozen threads already about this exact same idea. Lucius Alexander This is not the palindromedary you are looking for Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kukuli Posted May 25, 2016 Report Share Posted May 25, 2016 This is how we have been doing it. The poor guy has to make a scene at a resteraunt to get service. He also spent a night laying in a alley, injured, because the team couldn't find hum. 14 Unnoticed: Character blends In to Surroundings: Sight Group Images 1" radius, +/-6 to PER Rolls, Reduced Endurance (1/2 END; +1/4) (35 Active Points); Limited Power Power loses about half of its effectiveness (only to blend into surrounding; -1), Side Effects. (Character goes unnoticed if he doesn't bring attention to himself in Noncombat situations.; -1/2) The opponents get plusses to their perception rolls when he does something to attract attention, like dressing inappropriately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kukuli Posted May 25, 2016 Report Share Posted May 25, 2016 Oops! I was recreating the power from memory and got it wrong. 15 Unnoticed: Character blends In to Surroundings: Sight Group Images 1" radius, +/-4 to PER Rolls, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Uncontrolled (+1/2) (44 Active Points); Limited Power Power loses about half of its effectiveness (only to blend into surrounding; -1), Side Effects. (Character goes unnoticed if he doesn't bring attention to himself in Noncombat situations.; -1/2), No Range Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steriaca Posted May 25, 2016 Report Share Posted May 25, 2016 Ranma had this ability (one of the two sealed arts created by his father Genma, based on the movement of thieves...the invisability one is based on someone sneaking into a house, while the cutting wave is based on someone barging into a house). Basically as the manga makes it, Ranma uses his ki to totally mask his presence, even from ki sence. He is still visable, tangable, ect, but everyone ignores him as he moves things, ect. Unforcently, he can't seem to use it in combat, and promised Genma to seal it back up once he used it to defeat Ryu Kumen (who at the time was impersonating Ranma to his mother in order to find the other scroll detailing the other art, having mastered the scroll detailing the cutting wave already). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g3taso Posted May 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 25, 2016 There are probably a dozen threads already about this exact same idea. Lucius Alexander This is not the palindromedary you are looking for I've done a casual look for invisibility and so forth but I haven't had the opportunity to stumble one of those dozen threads on this idea. If you happen to find any of those threads, I would surely love to check out some of the better ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbywolfe Posted May 25, 2016 Report Share Posted May 25, 2016 I've done a casual look for invisibility and so forth but I haven't had the opportunity to stumble one of those dozen threads on this idea. If you happen to find any of those threads, I would surely love to check out some of the better ones.Most are probably archived so your best bet is to Google search the forum. It's a topic that comes up every year or so I'd say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g3taso Posted May 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 25, 2016 Unnoticed Presence: Invisible to Hearing, Mental, Sight, Smell/Taste, and Touch Groups (+1 1/4) for up to 3 Active Points of Running (4 Active Points) Hard to beat 3 points Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eepjr24 Posted May 25, 2016 Report Share Posted May 25, 2016 Unnoticed Presence: Invisible to Hearing, Mental, Sight, Smell/Taste, and Touch Groups (+1 1/4) for up to 3 Active Points of Running (4 Active Points) Hard to beat 3 points Huh? First I don't get your math: 3 * 2.25 = 6.75 which is 7 AP, which means 4 AP if you already have the running, not 3. Second, I don't get your logic? I am guessing you are talking about Invisible Power Effects here? If so, Running is only visible to 2 groups to start with I believe? Not sure on the math for your limitations, it looks like 5e and I am using 6e. But in any case, making 3" of running IPE does nothing to disguise your features or make you unmemorable. Al it would do it make people not perceive your method of getting from one place to another place if you move slowly. It might even make them more curious about you, since that is a very odd happening. - E Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted May 25, 2016 Report Share Posted May 25, 2016 Images (not there) with a modifier to perception or change environment penalty to perception can do this. It can end up more expensive than just plain invisibility with modifiers to be effective, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister E Posted May 25, 2016 Report Share Posted May 25, 2016 "How To: Memory Invisibility": http://www.herogames.com/forums/topic/47589-how-to-memory-invisibility/ "Don't Look, I'm Invisible!": http://www.herogames.com/forums/topic/12525-dont-look-im-invisible/ "Invisibility: Memory": http://www.herogames.com/forums/topic/12340-invisibility-memory/ "Kragar's No One Notices Me - Sample Power": http://www.herogames.com/forums/topic/89864-kragars-no-one-notices-me-sample-power/ "Ignore Me!": Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted May 26, 2016 Report Share Posted May 26, 2016 Most are probably archived so your best bet is to Google search the forum. It's a topic that comes up every year or so I'd say. Seems to me to be closer to every other month. Lucius Alexander So, not nearly as ubiquitous as a palindromedary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g3taso Posted May 26, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 26, 2016 "How To: Memory Invisibility": http://www.herogames.com/forums/topic/47589-how-to-memory-invisibility/ "Don't Look, I'm Invisible!": http://www.herogames.com/forums/topic/12525-dont-look-im-invisible/ "Invisibility: Memory": http://www.herogames.com/forums/topic/12340-invisibility-memory/ "Kragar's No One Notices Me - Sample Power": http://www.herogames.com/forums/topic/89864-kragars-no-one-notices-me-sample-power/ "Ignore Me!": Exactly what I was hoping for. Thank you! I wonder why searches weren't particularly fruitful. Is the site indexed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister E Posted May 26, 2016 Report Share Posted May 26, 2016 I was never here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted May 27, 2016 Report Share Posted May 27, 2016 APGI II 49 has the Psionic Limitation. Danger Sense, Psionic (-1/2) version would not work with traps or natural happenings (rockslides). But will naturally work on rockslides triggered by enemies. The -1/4 version could work on Traps based on the idea that the "Psionic Signature" of whoever set it lingers. Invisibility, Psionic (-1/2) would be your run of the mill "does not work on machines" power. As a general rule, powers never have downsides. You do not die from using supersonic flight/running and hitting insects in the way. Invisibility is a slight exception, as people will still run into you. First rule of creating any Hero System power: Create the Game Effect. Later add in the speical effets and reasonable limitations to season it to taste. How is this power different from just plain invisibility? How is it better? How is it worse? Do both sides even out or turn into a net advantage/disadvantage for the player in the given Setting? How does it interact with recording devices? People watching the recording devices records? What if the palce has a mandatory guestbook? As a reference, look at this Star Trek Race wich embraced the power: http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Ramuran One way to do this would be "Mental Illusion, AoE". Mental Illusion can change the perception of reality that is going to be comitted to memory. I always found it hard to find a place for MI, but this is one of hte few cases where it is clear. Changing yourself from looking like yourself to "just some random passerby" can vary greatly in difficulty based on who you are cloaking against: Hiding yourself from a Random Token processing Person that has no specific interest in your would be a EGO, maybe EGO+10 effect. The person has no real interest, so minor change of setting. EGO+10 if you received some media attention lately. Hiding from your Mother, the Police searching you or people hunting you could go into EGO+20 too EGO+30 territory.The EGO target would also go up if something unusual happens (Someone shouting "There he is!", you using a power, anything that draws attention to yourself) With sense affecting Powers/Modifiers it is hard to acomplish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
massey Posted May 31, 2016 Report Share Posted May 31, 2016 There are a lot of ways to build this. Exactly how you build it will be determined by exactly how you want it to work. To me, the easiest way is with Shapeshift, any humanoid form. And you're shifting into "any random guy with the authorization to be there". You're basically shapeshifting into a mook in the background. And the description of the power is that you still look like yourself, but nobody notices it's you. But as far as the Power goes, you're Shapeshifting into someone who nobody is going to pay attention to, because it's okay for that person to be there. And nobody will freak out or anything if you open doors or get something out of the candy machine, because they can see you, you're just not important. Now, this won't let you stand there and shoot people and have them still not notice you. To do that, you probably want to have regular invisibility as well. Sometimes you'd need multiple powers working together to get the type of effect you want. Effectively you'd be switching between game effects, while the special effect remained the same. Mental Illusions or Mind Control could work as well for certain odd situations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g3taso Posted June 1, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2016 Gone With The Wind: Gliding 4", Invisible Power Effects (Fully Invisible; +1) (8 Active Points); May Not Draw Attention To Himself (-1/2), Costs Endurance (Only Costs END to Activate; -1/4), Ground Gliding (-1/4), no Noncombat movement (-1/4) This seems like a good way to model the effect. The person is fully invisible so long as they move slowly and do not draw attention to themselves. I originally was looking at this as a "pass without trace" effect but Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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