Superhuman women less attractive in 6th Edition?

[Steve]

I finally picked up the first two volumes of Champions Villains, and I noticed something odd: the superhuman women are less attractive in 6th edition.

 

I first noticed this when I was looking at Istvatha V'han. In 5th edition, she had a COM score of 26. One of the most beautiful women in the multiverse, right? In 6th edition, she doesn't have even a single level of Striking Appearance.

 

I started checking out some more names.

 

Sapphire: 20 COM in 5th and +2/+2d6 in 6th, so that seemed right.

Witchcraft: 18 COM in 5th and +1/+1d6 in 6th. Ok.

Mentalla: 20 COM in 5th and +1/+1d6 in 6th. Wait. What?

Talisman: 20 COM in 5th and +2/+2d6 in 6th. Hmm.

Gravitar: 16 COM in 5th and nothing in 6th. Wait. What?

Scorpia: 16 COM in 5th and +1/+1d6 in 6th. Hmm.

 

The superhuman women are less attractive in 6th edition.

 

Sapphire and Talisman were the only two I came across with more than one level of Striking Appearance.

[Kraven Kor]

Re: Superhuman women less attractive in 6th Edition?

 

It is more just that with COM removed, it is forgotten about unless specifically a factor for the character.

 

When you had COM, and with how cheap it was, and with most of us Gamer Guys being, well, you know... we always bought up COM to 20+ because all Women in our minds are played by Hollywood level hotties.

 

Without COM, and with Striking Appearance being more expensive, it is omitted; not because we imagine the women as any less attractive, but because we don't want to spend the points for it to be an actual "power" or have any functional affect.

[Bloodstone]

Re: Superhuman women less attractive in 6th Edition?

 

The superhuman women are less attractive in 6th edition.

 

Or perhaps different people worked on the conversions...

[Enforcer84]

Re: Superhuman women less attractive in 6th Edition?

 

I finally picked up the first two volumes of Champions Villains, and I noticed something odd: the superhuman women are less attractive in 6th edition.

 

I first noticed this when I was looking at Istvatha V'han. In 5th edition, she had a COM score of 26. One of the most beautiful women in the multiverse, right? In 6th edition, she doesn't have even a single level of Striking Appearance.

 

I started checking out some more names.

 

Sapphire: 20 COM in 5th and +2/+2d6 in 6th, so that seemed right.

Witchcraft: 18 COM in 5th and +1/+1d6 in 6th. Ok.

Mentalla: 20 COM in 5th and +1/+1d6 in 6th. Wait. What?

Talisman: 20 COM in 5th and +2/+2d6 in 6th. Hmm.

Gravitar: 16 COM in 5th and nothing in 6th. Wait. What?

Scorpia: 16 COM in 5th and +1/+1d6 in 6th. Hmm.

 

The superhuman women are less attractive in 6th edition.

 

Sapphire and Talisman were the only two I came across with more than one level of Striking Appearance.

 

6e is by and large uglier.

[Guest steamteck]

Re: Superhuman women less attractive in 6th Edition?

 

I will bite my lip here and not rant but color me unsurprized.

[Enforcer84]

Re: Superhuman women less attractive in 6th Edition?

 

out of curiosity, how do the men-folk fare?

[Lucius]

Re: Superhuman women less attractive in 6th Edition?

 

Now see, when I first saw the thread I thought it was going to be about how the females were presented in the artwork.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary has a Y chromosome and a Y-Not? chromosome

[Opale]

Re: Superhuman women less attractive in 6th Edition?

 

Been a superwoman as a GameMistress, does that mean YOU SUGGEST I'm less attractive myself been a 6th Ed Hero Games system Gamemistress ? *shrugs and calls her minions*...

 

Now that you comment the Appearance of superheroine, here is my opinion :

In comics all superwomen are hotties because they are dressed with spandex or latex;

 

And you CAN'T permit yourself to have ugly bulges or fat when you do wear such costumes.

So yes Superwomen DO PRACTICE alot of sport.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Superhuman women less attractive in 6th Edition?

 

I agree with Kraven Kor. In prior editions, the presence of Comeliness in the stats chart forced us to consider "how good looking is this character"? and we often sank a few points in. After all, they're more appealing than the general populace. Now, it's much easier to ignore. This was the best argument, in my view, for comeliness being retained as a characteristic. It simply wasn't a good enough argument to offset its lack of game function separate and apart from other characteristics (most notably presence).

 

I'm surprised, with the complete lack of any other changes, that Striking Appearance didn't get directly swapped for COM. No thought seems to have been given to OCV, DCV and DEX being separated, so everyone gets the same stats they had previously. But I guess it is because COM isn't in the stat box, so it's easier to ignore.

[Lucius]

Re: Superhuman women less attractive in 6th Edition?

 

I was wondering if the DEX inflation from previous editions would be reined in. I guess not, huh?

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary thinks more reasonable DEX scores just aren't in the cards

[Hermit]

Re: Superhuman women less attractive in 6th Edition?

 

I suppose it depends on how you look at it. Aruably characters are JUST as good looking as before, it's just now they don't have a game mechanic to it. The Gamemaster is free to describe V'han as a beauty among beauties as she enters the throne room, but if she tries to PRE attack the player characters she gets no bonus dice. A pc can be written up as an 'utterly bewitching beauty' but if she's hoping for bonus dice to her social skill rolls or the like, she should buy the talent.

 

That said, I do think some of the write ups that were in the high Com Range should have had points put into that talent anyway.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Superhuman women less attractive in 6th Edition?

 

I think this supports the theory that COM was by and large a dump stat in previous editions.

[Lucius]

Re: Superhuman women less attractive in 6th Edition?

 

I think this supports the theory that COM was by and large a dump stat in previous editions.

 

In before the lock

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary wants to get out before the lock

[Clonus]

Re: Superhuman women less attractive in 6th Edition?

 

I think this supports the theory that COM was by and large a dump stat in previous editions.

 

You are misusing the term. A "dump stat" is a stat that has no practical use so people DON'T put points into it. COM was rather a stat that was so very cheap that even though it was useless, people put points into it anyway.

[Steve]

Re: Superhuman women less attractive in 6th Edition?

 

I was expecting the number of levels of Striking Appearance to be similar to the purchase of COM in 5th. A 16-18 COM in 5th being equivalent to 1 level of SA in 6th, a 20-22 becoming 2 levels, a 26 COM becoming 3, etc.

 

When the superhuman women were written up for 6th, I was just surprised to see that Sapphire and Talisman were the two best-looking women in the Champions Universe and two master villainesses like Istvatha and Gravitar became plain, at least in game mechanics terms.

[Ockham's Spoon]

Re: Superhuman women less attractive in 6th Edition?

 

COM was a sfx: you are good looking. It could function like Striking Appearance as a complimentary roll sort of thing, but then it was acting just like PRE anyway, making it redundant, so dumping COM made sense.

 

But COM is not the same thing as Striking Appearance strictly speaking. I have known people who from a photo you would not describe as exceptionally attractive (average COM), but in person they definitely had Striking Appearance - it was all in the attitude and body language. Conversely, I have also known people who take a great head-shot (high COM), but in person are too aloof or cold to be attractive (no Striking Appearance).

 

In 6e you can still be beautiful (just sfx of your appearance), but not a hottie, or vice versa, or both.

 

That said, if I had been doing the conversions I probably would have granted Striking Appearance to most high COM characters unless they were specifically described as cold fish.

[Bloodstone]

Re: Superhuman women less attractive in 6th Edition?

 

When the superhuman women were written up for 6th' date=' I was just surprised to see that Sapphire and Talisman were the two best-looking women in the Champions Universe and two master villainesses like Istvatha and Gravitar became plain, at least in game mechanics terms.[/quote']

 

Mechanically, that's a slightly bass ackwards way of looking at it though, isn't it?

 

I don't have the 6E books on me, so going by the 5E stats...

 

Witchcraft has a 20 PRE. This gives her 4d6 on all Presence Attacks and a 13- base roll for any social skills. As she also has 1 levels of Striking Appearance, she gets a 5d6 when making sexy Presence attacks against appropriate targets and a 14- Seduction/Charm against same.

 

Gravitar and Istvatha both have a 30 PRE, giving them 6d6 on all presence attacks and 15- base roll for any social skills. This includes a 6d6 sexy PRE attack and a 15- Seduction/Charm.

 

Finally, Sapphire has a 25 base PRE and two levels of striking appearance, giving her 7d6 on sexy presence attacks and a 16- on Seduction/Charm.

 

So, while you might be able to argue that Sapphire is now (mechanically) hotter than the Empress of a Billion Dimensions, you can't really call Gravitar "plain" as she's now (mechanically) hotter than the already smokin hot Witchcraft

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Superhuman women less attractive in 6th Edition?

 

Mechanically, that's a slightly bass ackwards way of looking at it though, isn't it?

 

I don't have the 6E books on me, so going by the 5E stats...

 

Witchcraft has a 20 PRE. This gives her 4d6 on all Presence Attacks and a 13- base roll for any social skills. As she also has 1 levels of Striking Appearance, she gets a 5d6 when making sexy Presence attacks against appropriate targets and a 14- Seduction/Charm against same.

 

Gravitar and Istvatha both have a 30 PRE, giving them 6d6 on all presence attacks and 15- base roll for any social skills. This includes a 6d6 sexy PRE attack and a 15- Seduction/Charm.

 

Finally, Sapphire has a 25 base PRE and two levels of striking appearance, giving her 7d6 on sexy presence attacks and a 16- on Seduction/Charm.

 

So, while you might be able to argue that Sapphire is now (mechanically) hotter than the Empress of a Billion Dimensions, you can't really call Gravitar "plain" as she's now (mechanically) hotter than the already smokin hot Witchcraft

 

What's Grond's PRE? Is he hotter than all of the above noted ladies?

[Xavier Onassiss]

Re: Superhuman women less attractive in 6th Edition?

 

As far as I can tell, 6th edition COM has exactly the same function as 5th edition COM: none at all. The major difference is, in 6th edition COM is FREE and doesn't take up any space on your character sheets. You can have all the 6th edition COM you want, no problem! If you want good looks that actually do something in-game, buy Striking Appearance.

 

The Striking Appearance Talent does what COM should have done, at an appropriate point cost. It's PRE with some limitations. So for some of the 6e characters with apparent discrepancies between their 5e COM scores and 6e Striking Appearance, I'm wondering if they didn't get some extra PRE in the bargain to make up the difference. (I don't know -- haven't got those books yet.)

[Bloodstone]

Re: Superhuman women less attractive in 6th Edition?

 

What's Grond's PRE? Is he hotter than all of the above noted ladies?

 

Also a 30, so he's only as hot as Gravitar

 

What you should really worry about is Takofanes the Undying Lord and his 60 PRE and Power of Command (+60 PRE).

 

Thankfully, no GM I've ever played with has used his 24d6 in a sexy presence attack

[Christopher]

Re: Superhuman women less attractive in 6th Edition?

 

I don't know COM at all, but from what I heard so far it's arguably how often any of the mentioned characters could actually use Sexy Presence Attacks/Charms.

Also, Striking Apereance can also mean being intimidating. I have no idea if this could be archieved with lowered COM.

 

And you can still get bonusses for Sexy-Presence attacks/charm with some things like Apropirate Setting/Right tool for the Job (Sexy Dress ), Genuine Need, "Target is in Retreat" (a single in a single bar).

 

On the other Hand, Tarkofanes may get -4d6 allone for Bad Reputation (you know he really wants to kill you), -3d6 for being in the wrong mood and I would even go so to say any character has a Total Psycholigcal Complication "No Nekropilia" (another 3d6), that is not listed because of the really low game relevance.

[The Main Man]

Re: Superhuman women less attractive in 6th Edition?

 

What's Grond's PRE? Is he hotter than all of the above noted ladies?

No, he's uglier, way uglier - Negative COM.

[Marcus Impudite]

Re: Superhuman women less attractive in 6th Edition?

 

6e is by and large uglier.

Repped.

[Bloodstone]

Re: Superhuman women less attractive in 6th Edition?

 

No' date=' he's uglier, [i']way[/i] uglier - Negative COM.

 

He was a 6 in 5E.

 

Did he have Negative COM in older editions?

[The Main Man]

Re: Superhuman women less attractive in 6th Edition?

 

He was a 6 in 5E.

 

Did he have Negative COM in older editions?

No, he didn't. I simply remarked that Negative COM existed too, and 6e Grond's PRE may represent that in similar ways as Gravitar's PRE, as mentioned before, could represent, at least in part, her physical attractiveness. IOW, while Gravitar's PRE can be at least partially a product of her beauty, Grond's also can because of his ugliness.

 

That said, I'm scooting out of this thread - I smell COM-Nazism.