Doc Democracy

Part of this depends on whom the stats are talking to. If they are talking to the GM, then there is a real use in providing the build information. If it is to players then there is no need. This is a limitation of print media. What I dont understand is why (except for reasons that it is more work), on PDF documents, they cannot put in the simple language and have the actual build be a call out. I dont know any of you! :-) Why, you might ask. I would say that is because, over the years, HERO GMs have asked how they are supposed to run kit that they do not have the build information for. I suppose it could be in an annex at the end that you can pull out and reference but it is often handier for the GM to be right there. That is an historic issue. You can run fast with running but you cannot run up buildings. The available answer was to use flight that did allow you to gain altitude and limit it such that you had to be touching a surface. The unintuitive element now is that people default to Flight for that running - the name of the power should change (like Energy Blast to Blast) but I cannot think of what a decent name might be... Doc

Oh! Light....just thought. 1d6 Blast, AoE, no Stun or Body. :-). Just the SFX of light generation....

I can see anything relying on that kind of logic stimulating debate in game at some point. :-) I understand what you are saying but the judgements on where the line gets drawn on that kind of thing may vary wildly!!

And this is where the wise GM provides flexibility that the rules cannot. Obviously we can put something on there that provides a clue to those flexibilities. One of them is OAF. That means the power is a thing. All things can be used as weapons to club folk. Of course the focus rules mean that when we clock someone with it, there is a chance it will break... As for the briefly blind someone, I would be inclined to play that as anything - if you could pick up a lamp and blind someone then the flashlight could too - but it should not be as useful, or as easy to use, as a flash. Those are the things the rules should not need to tell you... ...but I know you know that in a way your teenage self did not.... :-) Doc

If the bracer is simply an IIF, then you reverse it by taking off the bracer but to do so you need to subdue the entity. Doc

I had a odd flash of a game build. If you put the bracer on you are subject to an entangle attack. If it is successful you are entangled and cannot move. The 'entangle' is the bracer personality - walks about and moves etc and is able to use all the powers of the bracer entity. That continues until the entangle is broken. This build means that the entangled character is aware but unable to move or (potentially) see or hear. He would however be able to communicated mentally or find other ways to interact. You might also want a mental entangle if you want the entangled character to be completely immobilised. There are some interesting wrinkles here but it seems to work quite neatly - the bracer entity has a complication that it cannot act unless it has a host. The host is defined as someone entangled. Both entangles are subject to a trigger (when bracer placed on hosts arm), it would use the entity OCV and MOCV to attack and potentially get benefits of surprise etc. :-)

Nolgroth, you leaving us too? That would be a great shame... :-(

Ha! I am not one of the inveterate build posters, though I value the people who do it - most useful. I think the problem is that effects in HERO are based on a set of broad fundamental powers. The power that you are talking about here (in the current rules) is probably either Images or change environment (depending on what you are actually trying to do). If you do the HERO thing then, by switching on a light, you are instigating a power that changes the environment such that everyone with normal sensory abilities can see properly. As is usual in HERO there are several ways to do this. One is to try to model the imposition of a light beam in the environment, one is to modify the environment and one is to provide everyone there with the ability to see as if there was actually light to see by. We are working in C++ rather than BASIC. The easiest thing to do is to ignore the powers system completely, acknowledge there are things out there that allow the game world to change such as lights to help folk see and vehicles to help them move more quickly or access places that would not otherwise be accessible. You then manage that through in-game transactions (favours, cash etc) and ignore that there is the potential to model that through the Powers system. The HERO-geek way to do it is to choose the power you think is most appropriate - come up with a complex power structure that has a point basis and that players can plug straight into their character sheets. There is a good game reason to do the second bit - but possibly not to show all the working. The difference between a complex build that describes in game terms a flashlight that casts a light in a 30 foot cone and a listing that says Flashlight (30 foot cone) 3 pts is exactly zero for a player. However, presenting the contortions you went through to get there shows just how complicated the system is. So making it simple is simply not making look complex!! :-) If I wanted to make things simple, I would decide, in my game, what things were worth (whether by sticking a finger in the air or doing the math) and listing them for players to decide if they wanted to spend points on them. If a player wanted to cast light from their eyes, like a flashlight, I would probably need to do the math, though I could make a simple decision such as (that OAF is now not focus based and so I am doubling the cost - voila). If you want a new power, then you are going to have to think about how that power extrapolates to all the possibilities that players might want to use it for. So you have the power to transmit light - is that always full spectrum. Is being able to choose a particular wavelength an advantage or a limitation? Can you vary the transmission from bright to dim? Can you intensify the light by concentrating it into a smaller area? In other words, the logical extensions of what a PC might be able to do with your emit signal power might go well beyond what you intended it to. That is why senses are so complicated - they are looking to cover all the bases that were raised. Doc

I do like the keep it simple idea. I think that the only time this will come into play is if X = PC. Once PC's are involved or they are actively seeking to remove it from someone else then you need to have a system in place. I dont think players really care what the system is as long as it is fun to play out and they can understand it. PS: for example - I used the dice pool timing system last week in a game session. The players were trying to get something done before a someone stumbled across them. They took actions to minimise that risk and I added dice to a dice pool for every good idea. At the end of that, they began trying to access the crypt where the goodies were stored. Every time they tried something that took time or failed at something, I made one of them roll the pool and removed each dice that showed a six. The tension built as the dice pool shrank they all knew that there was a chance the next roll would end their time but they also knew that it was possible to roll for ages - even on the last dice... This had nothing to do with the game system but it was easy to understand and manipulate and allowed them to take control and make informed judgement on what they wanted to prioritise...

But the game has instant change, it costs three points, what more do you need? The whole senses stuff is a place where building costs more points than you might expect and there are complexities in building it. However, the system is built to provide a framework to build characters, not kit. The stuff you simplify might be subverted by diligent folk with power game tendencies. That makes it more complex. :-) The way to make HERO less complex for players is for GMs to put the work in upfront and create a GUI for their game. All the bits and kit with costs for players that they can pick up and use. HERO has done a lot of this groundwork in quite a few publications and, because this is HERO, you can pick that up and use as is or you can decide it doesn't fit your game, get in behind the builds and tweak to your heart's delight. The desire for simplicity is a desire for someone else to be making decisions for you, close to anathema for many HERO GMs. :-)

You could go for something more classical. Pandaemonium sounds like a decent name...

Looks to me like a complication. Requires a host to be animate That means, if there is a host, the character can be in the game. If there is no host, he is a museum exhibit. Now all you need to do is decide on the mechanism for becoming a host. If the host is a look, no problem. If the host is a DNPC, no problem. If the host is a PC, you need details. But I don't think the points for the possession need to be on the characters sheet.

There is always a problem with conversion but the basic principles should remain the same. The steps that you go through should think about that. Things like STR are easy - how much can you lift etc. Things like movement powers are similarly easy. What you need are the benchmarks for everything else. In ICONS or M&M you look at the damage a character does - is it higher or lower than the campaign average - does the character hit more easily than average or not - is he harder to damage? In HERO, the campaign averages are more readily movable than other games and so you then need to take direction from the originals to make the conversions. If you bring one or two examples to this thread then folk will be more than happy to help make the conversion (and offer more than one way to do it) but many of their questions will come back to those principles. I find that once you have done a few conversions then the others are so much easier to eyeball... Doc

I think there is room for a little bit of education in a golden age game. Every now and again there should be something that throws a wrinkle in the over the top stereotypes we love to play in the genre. In one golden age scenario, I allowed the players to encounter The Volk. This was a duplication based German hero. He was left-wing patriot, seeking to protect the German people and is the manifestation of all the Germans who died through deprivation due to the imposition of sanctions on Germany after WWI. His whole ethos was protecting the Volk and he was doing this by targeting Allied Command bomber raids... In another scenario, they met Nissei, a second generation female Japanese hero from California. She was combatting third columnists in the concentration camps where Japanese Americans were held. Japanese agents were looking to foment rebellion and cause disruption but the people in the camp were refusing to turn over their children who were tempted to kick back against internment. Can't do many of these or you lose the essential black and white morality of the times. They are good to do once in a while though. Doc

I will give up. Not talking about developing the property, just giving fans of settings a reason to buy HERO. I would not think of HERO producing more Greyhawk or Glorantha. It might also give HERO fans a reason to pick up and convert materials for those places. In my head A HERO in Glorantha would be one book, it would provide anyone looking to use HERO in Glorantha with all the tools to play the setting - it would make all the build decisions - character building, spells, magic, the whole deal. You could then purchase any Gloranthan material and use HERO to play it easily. Low investment, potentially mutual benefit. I also think there are more existing fans for long-standing franchises than there are likely to be for any potential vapourware custom settings from HERO. I don't see this as a way to reinvigorate the system with new gamers but I would rather try to chivvy gamers that love Forgotten Realms to try playing it a different way than try to persuade them to invest in a whole new setting and background. That sounds snarky and I am not trying to be. I would love HERO to have a couple of well written, well supported, settings that were recognised as such outside the HERO community. It is a crowded market though and unsure of the cost benefits for the company as it stands today. However. I promised I would give up and I am. See you all on other threads. :-)

tasha, in a perfect world I would agree with you. The problem is that while dealing with existing IP, generating a good, solid game world also costs money and there are plenty of problems getting artwork and production values that earn your setting space in a crowded marketplace. Getting Greyhawk and Glorantha fans to play HERO potentially sells rulebooks. rulebooks broadens the base and possibly opens the door for a market for HERO derived settings. Just looking at myself. I think I would pick up the books I am talking about - I have a lot invested in those settings over the years. I know it would take an amazing setting to tempt me to invest in yet another setting. Doc

Oh yes. There is IP but IP is too often conflated with "can't go there" rather than "is there a deal to be done?". Now deals are often quid pro quo. It would need someone to go through the potential of such a thing and to see whether there is benefit that could be gained on each side and whether there is any potential for damage. If WotC want people to buy Greyhawk material, is it to their advantage that the setting can be played in multiple systems? If HERO produce a book that makes Greyhawk easily accessible to people who will not play D&D, does WotC suffer? If HERO produce a book that makes Greyhawk accessible to HERO gamers, will D&D gamers switch to HERO to play there? I think only the last item is a potential loss for WotC. And I think that potential is probably pretty small and also probably outweighed by the fact that they would continue to purchase Greyhawk materials... There will be some settings where there is resistance (I do believe there is an issue with Palladium stuff... :-) ) but there will be others that will be open to it. I see Chaosium making deals like this - there are now four systems that support gaming in Glorantha. I think there would be a deal to be done to produce "A HERO in Glorantha book"... My main question though was not whether it was practical - I was wondering whether other people would buy this kind of book and, if they were available, would they be the same kind of gateway as the proposed "Powered by HERO" games?? Doc

Runequest almost thrived on good fan-based products for decades. I think quite a few of the early editions of those magazines sell for more than the rules they supported... There are talented people out there. There is a lot of material out there. It needs someone willing (and able) to corral that into product that will attract some level of acclaim and enough attention that people will want to use the material. It does not always cost a lot of money - less than when fan-based stuff was poorly typeset photocopies (and folk still bought those...) Doc

My favourite golden age character, I have mentioned in previous threads was US Male. Not rain, or snow, or Ratzi scum will stop the US Male...

If you want to make the group British then you should be thinking hard about getting Scottish, Welsh and/or Irish representation or your group is Engish, not British. For example, Ben Nevis. A brick with growth named after the highest mountain in the UK. :-) Or Draig Coch (welsh for red dragon), a fire throwing energy blaster. Doc PS that is pronounced DRY-g Coe-k (the k is more of a throat clearing... :-) )

Would you prefer to see a new setting you had never heard of or a supplement that facilitated you to play a setting you loved? I think I would buy "A HERO in Greyhawk" before I would buy any new setting that has the potential of not attracting any future support or being no better than a homebrew (irony I know as Greyhawk was indeed just a homebrew... :-) ). Best part of this is that it would allow the demonstration of the power of the system without the need to develop and support huge campaigns etc I can continue to buy Greyhawk modules and use my HERO in Greyhawk to convert it for play using HERO. Doc

You know. If a grenade does not work the way you want it to, ot in a way that seems counter-intuitive then it is probably a bad build rather than a fault of the system. :-) Doc

GC, dont give up. There are a few good ideas out there for you to latch onto and try out. See what works in gameplay and, if it doesn't, have an open conversation with the players to say what you were disappointed about and say that you are going to change the build to better approximate the gameplay you are looking to achieve. Dont be shy about getting things wrong. The players often love it when they are involved in the building that way. I think I understand. When part of a group the effect is minimal if present at all. When an opponent thinks about hurting the vampire then the effect will kick in, to impact any use of any power intended to hurt the vampire. It is a bit of meta-play that the players might know something the characters do not and, if they throw an attack where the overt intent is to harm the vampire, they will be affected. Doc

So there should be no expectation of fair press coverage and candidates should have a strategy to get networks on board. Our printed media is overwhelmingly right-leaning and, because our printed media is national, this probably has more weight than US printed media, which tends to have more state based coverage (to my memory). Is the broadcast media usually democrat biased?

The true measure of any house rule....