Vulcan

Re: Jedi Ghosts and fade-to-deaths? Dooku and Qui-Gon, probably not. Darth Siddeous, on the other hand...

Re: Quote of the Week from my gaming group... Every so often my players will wander well off course, to the point that they're in danger of loosing track of the plot. Usually I just let them go with it, as long as I can wing something (until the plot they lost track of comes back to bite them...). But sometimes I can't, so the players come upon a pond, or river, or fish tank, and I tell them... "You see some little red fish in the water. They look sorta like herrings..."

Re: Making a character too efficient? Efficency is nice, in that your character is better in combat and can do more things. To some extent, this is part of the game. However, without a clear concept behind the build of the character, you quickly fall into doing things 'because you can,' not 'because it fits the character.' More than once I've made a character, then while filling out the basic background realized that the character I built wasn't really the character I was trying to build. On the other hand, you can carry concept too far. We had a guy in our group make a 350 point character with a shipload of concept skills, perks, and talents, normal stats and defenses, and one power - an INT Drain. It took about three fights (the character was hospitalized after each one) before he realized that concept isn't everything...

Re: Elemental Control Vs. Multipower

Re: Hero System Light Somewhere in the morass that the 6E discussion has become I suggested the genere books be 'stand alone' games based on a simplified HERO System (with spells, powers, etc. prebuilt), and then the 'Ultimate Toolkit Edition' book would be more like the 4E/5E core book. The big problem with that would be the duplication of basic rules across all the books. Perhaps a 'basic rules' book separate from the genre books is the answer.... Just a thought.

Re: END reserve and Absorbtion By my understanding, yes. However, given that many ED based attacks have a bright light associated with them (lightning, particle beams, fire, etc.) you might want to consider a lesser (even a -0, perhaps) limitation 'doesn't absorb powers that don't at least glow' or some such. -1 to -1/2, depending on how much of your activity goes down at night or in unlit buildings. I'd go with the -1/2, it gives the GM a bit less room to screw with you. By the letter of the rules, yes. Do it too often and the GM is going to get annoyed.

Re: Elemental Control Vs. Multipower My understanding of the 'powers in EC must cost END' is a balancing issue. The theory (as I understand it) is that since you can have all your EC powers active at one time, the combined END cost is the real limitation on the use of EC's. I don't neccessarily agree with it but there you are.

Re: Jedi Ghosts and fade-to-deaths? No Sith/Dark Side with a strong Jedi/light side is actually an imbalance. And given some of the trash Lucas has put out and called Star Wars recently, his opinion of the matter means little to me.

Re: Help With A setting up a char Check Dark Champions for the Military Packages. According to that, a Navy SEAL is 156 points just on packages - before customization! But that includes a boatload of WF, some basic martial arts, some skill levels, and even a fair array of characteristics in the heroic range...

Re: WWYCD: Mirror Universe In my case, the alternate Vigil would be a well-known and -loved light-control powered Superhero who has within the past year or so fallen from grace and done some bad (but not truly awful) things...

Re: Elemental Control Vs. Multipower First, good luck getting a GM to allow skill levels in a power framework at all, much less allow 8 of them! I've never met a GM who would. And taking Doc's example a bit further, the 15 points saved can be used to raise the MP reserve to 60 AP, but that still leaves you well short of being able to use 2 powers at full capacity, much less all 3. The EC, on the other hand, allows the use of all three, at full capacity, all the time. The real utility of the MP is for easy expansion. For a mere handful of points, another slot can be added to the MP. It often takes 20 or more points to add a new slot to an EC.

Re: Jedi Ghosts and fade-to-deaths? While both groups were guilty of making some terrible decisions in the prequels, the Senate and the Jedi Council were not one and the same. I don't even think there was any overlap between the two. Balance to the Force? Why the heck would any of the Jedi Council want to balance the Force? The Sith were limited to two for thousands of years (ever since the time of Darth Bane). To balance the Force, the Jedi would also have to be reduced to two. Why the heck would any Jedi want that? Makes me wonder if Count Dooku had been under Darth Siddeous' influence even back when he was training Qui-Gon, and therefore influenced Qui-Gon into seeking out the chosen one for Darth Siddeous to use against the Jedi...

Re: Clever Future Weapons Yes, that is exactly what the Klingon's vird'dakaasei (literlly translated as the 'shake it 'til it falls apart tool') does. I would guess that the power requirements to totally supress the atomic forces is too high for it to be practical - in a Star Trek, rubber science sorta way. On the other hand, creating an 'ocsilating' effect would do the same job, very nearly as fast, and on a vastly smaller energy budget which is important from a weapon standpoint. Besides, the Klingon's early energy weapons were sonics of exactly the type you described (vibrate it physically until it shatters). The Klingon disruptors simply take the concept from the physical to the atomic scale. (Just realized: I have just shown exactly how much of a Star Trek geek I am! )

Re: Learning from the mistakes of others Generally I hate vulnerabilities, but that is because I tend to make high-DCV but rather fragile characters. A Vulnerability likely makes the difference between one lucky hit KO'ing my characters, and one lucky hit killing them outright. In the end, my characters tend to be 'vulnerable' to AEH/Explosions, rather than special effects.

Re: Elemental Control Vs. Multipower It comes down to utility, Navar. The powers in a multipower are generally not all available to be used together, at full power, all at once. Powers in an elemental control are.

Re: Clever Future Weapons

Re: WWYCD: Magic Fishnets? So how's that going, Weldun?

Re: two (sigh) PRE questions Just a GM warning about the dangers of allowing a really high PRE in a game should do it. I would hate to see the mechanic removed from the game entirely, because it adds so much to feel of a HEROS game. In every movie genre there's the trope where the villian makes a big speech and terrifies everyone but the hero into inaction... PRE attacks are a big part of the source materials. I'll have to go watch some of my movies to get some more concrete examples to list...

Re: Does anyone use the Independent Limitation? True enough. But unless a GM at least tries to take the Independant item away from the charcter pretty regularly, it becomse a cheap way to get three times as much power. The reason not to take Independant is the threat of the loss. If the GM doesn't follow through on the threat, then it's the rest of the players who loose, because their characters fall behind the power curve of the character who did take Independant.

Re: two (sigh) PRE questions The other side of this is that even though PRE is cheap, PRE Defense - PRE, only for defense (-1) - is cheaper. So if the PRE-overbuild character runs into someone who isn't impressed by the attack, they're going to get waxed in the ensuing battle becase they don't have anything to fall back on. And from there, all of his Presence attacks will loose dice due to 'Poor Reputation (All Bark and No Bite...).

Re: two (sigh) PRE questions There is a fine line between too much and not enough PRE in a super-level game. (I really can't say much about Heroic-level games.) Some players use PRE as a 'dump' stat, and if the GM never uses PRE attacks, that works fine. At least, until there is a 'crossover' game with another gameing group that does use PRE attacks. (I have fond memories of running into just such a group in a crossover. Their big, nasty gargoyle thingie had an 8 PRE. Our lowest PRE was 18. The weretiger had a 38. One roar and the battle was over!)

Re: A "bat-like" character On the other hand, if you have no innate powers and NCM you are *clearly* normal, period. Pesky things like 'superhuman registration laws' would not apply to you. Could be important in a world with a strong 'superhuman paranoia factor' like Marvel Earth. Of course, this almost turns the disad into an advantage... On the other hand, you have to accept that you're not going to shine in combat very often. You'll have to find other opportunities to leave your mark on the game - but since you're playing a 'batmanesque' character, you've already thought of that.

Re: Does anyone use the Independent Limitation? Not in my opinion. This is a perfectly reasonable build, and so long as the limitations on the VPP powers are appropriate, then I think Independant is not needed. Univeral Focus should work just fine here. This one is trickier. By concept, this sounds pretty reasonable, but a lot of concepts sound reasonable until I see the actual character build involved. It comes down to a varienty of factors: What percentage of the charater's points is going to be Independant? (A character with a lot of 'Independant' powers is going to be a lot tougher than one without 'Independant' powers - until the 'Independant' goes away, as it ineveitably will at some point.) Is there enough character left to be viable once the 'Independant' powers go away? (Or will the player just retire the character and start a new one, neutering the -2 limitation?) What are the character's relative 'Independant' and non-independant capabilities - and how do they complement each other? (Is the Independant stuff your full combat suite, leaving you lost of points for skills - but unable to fight your way out of a paper bag if they're lost, and that sort of thing.) VIPER and UNTIL agents belong to an organization that provides equipement for them. Likewise, a gun-toting superhero(ish) character likely has sources that can easily replenish his foci. I suppose the best way to look at Independant is as a limitation on the points, not the item. If an item is Independant and you loose it, you loose the points. If the item is a focus and you loose it, you keep the points. So if the 'magic cat burglar' has a VPP of magial gear, with a 'museum' where she can change her VPP powers, I would say the VPP is not independant. After all, in a world with magic items available to be stolen - and presumable occasionaly sold as well - there would be a place to buy the more common magic items. Other items that are less easily replaced as individual items could be replaced by other items with similar functions, though. So Independant may not be the way to go here. After all, if you put an Independant item into a VPP and loose it, you loose the points in the VPP as well!

Re: DEX vs. CSLs Don't forget the rest of my post which explains much of my reasoning. At the low point levels of the game, superhumanly skilled really hasn't entered into it yet. And given the lethality level of the game, it's not likely to either. But I see your point. Having a bunch of skill levels turns you into Bullseye, who is probably superhuman. It's just not likely to become an issue in our game. At least not for the PC's...

Re: First meeting of game group to consider HERO System A couple of your issues can be handled straight out of the rulebook. It's actually an advantage - check 'Line of Sight' under "Range Advantages" Aside from that, good luck with your new game! :thumbup: