Old Man

What I did was use the encumbrance rules from FREd and also slapped on an additional penalty of -1 DCV for medium armor (chain,scale) and -2 DCV for heavy armor (plate). The combination of the two should do it. Armor, shield, weapons and junks would be putting him at -3 DCV /Dex even if he has 20 STR.

So uh....... What about the plate armored guy that has Combat Luck? hehehe

wow. hehehe FH Campaign: "You're hired to hunt down and capture the bandit Sundance...."

We know armor was effective in real life, but the point is to emulate fantasy fiction, where a quick, lightly armored warrior can hold his own against a 'lumbering' armored knight. I don't know if that's the armor's fault so much as a terminal lack of common sense on the part of the French. "Let's charge right into the deep mud at the feet of the English bowmen!" Um, no. Common sense might have saved them at Crecy, too.

You need to introduce an armor penalty, if you don't have one already. Here's the chart out of 1st ed FH, which is more lenient than the 4th ed chart, but I haven't got the 4th ed chart with me right now: Weight (kg)/DCV and DEX roll penalty/END cost per turn 0-4.8 -- -0 0 4.9-6.4 -- -1 1 6.5-9.5 -- -1 2 9.6-12.5 -- -2 3 12.6-19 -- -2 4 19.1-25 -- -3 5 25.1-37 -- -3 6 37.1-50 -- -4 7 >50 -- -4 8 Note that it is not dependent on STR. Your tank player will scream if you try to impose this, of course. You may have to bite the bullet and explain to him that his character is just so much tougher than the others that it's not fair to the other players. I can't think of a gentler way to put it.

But wearing armor doesn't preclude you from doing any of this. Here, I'll ask a specific question: why would a player choose to play a lightly armored character in your campaign, knowing that he could dress that character in 8 DEF head to toe for no penalty? Again, armor has nothing to do with what weapon maneuvers you can use. So explain to me why Legolas never wears heavy armor. Plate doesn't prevent him from blocking and dodging. In the Monolith Campaign, where there is no penalty whatsoever for wearing tankmail, why not wear it as insurance in case he rolls an 18 for a block? Why does the Monolith Campaign hand out this free bonus to tanks, leaving the light fighters to spend all their phases blocking and dodging while the tanks get all the kills? Because that's exactly the problem Green Giant is having.

Finding their way back to the site of the attack was easy. When they got there they found no further signs of muskies nearby. The only thing making noise were birds and hungry flies. The wagons were still on the road and undisturbed. The muskies made no effort to hide their tracks so in spite of the thick forest and limited sight, it was easy to follow their trail. Exercising caution as they moved through the wood payed off as the three avoided a dangerous confrontation with a huge blade beetle. 10 feet of armored beast wasn't something Lavenus, Mac, and Yor wanted to play with. The forest started to thin out after a few more hours of travel. Lavenus caught the smell of smoke in the air and was rewarded a short time later by seeing the flicker of a fire ahead. Lavenus and Macarrandir moved ahead using every bit of cover to remain unseen. As expected, there was a musky camp set up in a clearing. There were only a few muskies present along with two huge dogs. The camp seemed large for the number of beings there, but the others might be close by. Lavenus turned to go back and give Yor an update when his horns brushed against a bang fungus. The resultant crack and cloud of yellow spores made him stand out quite clearly to all. Barking and hissing alarm, the muskies drew steel and the dogs were set loose. Lavenus barely had enough time to draw his sword before his was being pressed by the pony sized canines. Mac sighed in disgust while putting an arrow to string. He wasn't spotted so he had his choice of targets. Rather than helping Lavenus with the dogs, he aimed for two muskies standing in the camp, thinking they might be easier to hit. He pulled back on his bow and loosed, the arrow flew straight into the the ground between them. Yor hearing the increased activity said a prayer to Saint Sebastian asking for a blessing. He feared his two skinny associates must be in dire need. His body was filled with holy power giving him the speed to run through the wood faster than a horse. The dog handler and another musky advanced intending to add Lavenus and Mac to the cooking pot or smoking rack. Even if the food is dangerous, it's still food. The man-badgers still in the camp looked down at Mac's arrow and grunted in effort as they flung yard long darts at the Skinny Wythir. Their aim was better but Macarrandir managed to jump out of the way. Lavenus fought with skill but only managed to give one of the dogs a scrath on the shoulder before having his guts ripped out. Both dogs were eager to start feeding but heard a whistle from their master. Fight others first, then feed.

Transform probably works best but whatever... Duplication: Only on Books/Paper...no that's not right. Eiditic Memory w/ scroll focus LS: Longevity: Only on Books/Paper Healing: Only on Books/Paper

I think you're missing the point by a little bit. Some GMs have problems presenting a challenge to groups of characters that have differing levels of protection. Frankly I don't care if my mages wear full plate. The problem is giving the plate wearing mage a good fight while not wiping out his non-armored buddies. A thought just occured to me, let the monster/orc/whatever push it's STR when fighting the armored guy - it knows that it will take a harder swing to hurt him (unless the monster is unintelligent). Can you push STR in FH? Regarding your point, if there are no penalties to wearing armor then most players will do it because it would be foolish not to, however, the player that wanted to play a light/no armor type of character would be screwed.

So do I. I want to be able to play lightly armored, fast characters and still be competitive with my plate-wearing companions. I want to play Legolas, who slaughters dozens of orcs without wearing so much as chainmail. I want to play Robin Hood. I want to play the Gray Mouser. I want to play Rhialto and Cugel and Merlin. I want to play all of these without feeling that I'm being stupid by not cladding them all in steel. I want there to be some reason why heroes might not want to spend most of their adventures encased in plate. You say you don't want restrictions on a HERO campaign, but what you're really doing is penalizing players who don't want to run armored characters. That sounds like a restriction to me.

That's what we're trying to do. Genre emulation requires the possibility of lightly armored characters who are very difficult to hit. If there are no penalties for wearing armor, then there is no advantage to not wearing armor, and every player will dress their characters in full plate--even the mage. Legolas never wore heavy armor throughout all three books. Having no armor penalties would do the opposite of what you intend--it would make things more realistic at the expense of genre emulation. In Real Life, a warrior in a good suit of plate isn't slowed by it much, certainly not enough to make him a lumbering target. Otherwise no one would have bothered.

If it makes you feel any better, you have a pretty common problem. Pre-5th ed, DCV penalties for armor were not dependent on STR, so your 7 DEF tank would have been at -3 DCV regardless (and then made up for it with a large shield, but I digress). If you don't have a penalty like this in play, consider making one. Otherwise, you could turn up the frequency of pick-wielding bad guys, like you suggest. It'll be pretty obvious discrimination, though, unless you run some kind of killing-the-evil-dwarves story arc. A more general solution is to confront the party with inaccurate but high-damage bad guys. Assuming your light fighters have a significantly higher DCV than the tank, try to calibrate bad guy OCV such that they hit elves on 7- while the tank is hit on 11-. If the baddies are doing about 2d6K, they'll inflict few crippling wounds but plenty of stun on the tank. If the tank's using a shield, start counting shield damage, if not armor damage. (They don't last long.) This does run some risk of one-shotting one of your light guys, but overall it ought to balance a bit better. To take this to an extreme, confront the party with really big, high-damage critters, one or two at a time. If a giant swings for 4d6K it matters little how much armor you wear. Yet if the party outnumbers the giant, they can wolfpack it--everyone reserves, giant picks a target, target dodges, everyone else gets a swing, lather, rinse, repeat. Another idea is to take the group into an environment where tankmail is a liability. There's a good page or two in 5th about why you don't wear full plate in the desert. Finally, make sure that the tank is _always_ the one who gets mind controlled.

Just throwing out some comments on previous posts: I'm starting to not like the idea of active point caps. It would be a good idea if the power costs were balanced for heroic-level fantasy, but they're not. Drains and transfers are just prohibitively expensive, while flight and force field are far too cheap. I understand the concern with mages buying city-smashing spells, but it's incredibly hard to get more than -6 in limitations, even if you try. ECs have a similar effect in that they encourage mages to keep all spells at about the same AP level, without being a hard ceiling. I don't think it's true that mages save points in stats. Every FH character needs to spend points in CON and BODY unless they can somehow be assured of not taking damage. I usually ban the trigger limitation except in unusual circumstances. It makes it too easy for mages to stack lims without suffering any real penalty. Plus it feels like D&D. Charges are usually a better fit for those special effects that might need trigger, like alchemy. I'm hoping 5th ed. FH will have a greatly expanded section on spell limitations. Side effects have lots of potential but the current "30 AP side effect" just doesn't cut it. Foci are another--there need to be guidelines for expensive and/or rare foci limitations.

The townspeople were mildly upset that the caravan was attacked. The fact that the bodies were stripped of money but not weapons was strange. Usually only small groups of people were taken or attacked by the muskies. A dozen trained and armed men should have kept them away. In any case, the townspeople gladly paid the bounty for the musky kills. The three still newly acquainted companions came to the conclusion that finding out what happened to the rest of the guards and supplies would be a good idea. Yor for the sake of righting an injustice, Lavenus to score more booty and bounty. Aleister had nothing better to do. Lavenus demanded a chance to clean up and wash the guck off of his clothes and polish his horns. The bath house owner was quite pleased to see him again. The necromancer took this chance to visit the local herb dealer. He made sure that he was alone with the shop owner before locking the door behind him. Unfortunately, he did not notice that he was followed by an unhappy stone-skinned man. The Vashon did his best to hear the conversation within but could only make out the words "slime demon". Yor found himself with a semi-captive audience and began to preach about the glory and power of the All Father. ------ Lavenus was just leaving the bath house when he spied a familiar face. "You! you lying sack of piss!" he shouted. "I'll have your ears for sending me into that swamp! Do you know, I got bitten by leaches and had to walk through mud?! mud!" Macarrandir was about to make an unwise remark when both of them were lifted by their collars. "Gentlemen please, we're all friends before the All Father. We shouldn't be fighting among ourselves, we have muskies to bring to justice." Yor gave them a big smile. Lavenus squirmed but gave up the struggle. Macarrandir gave a smirk knowing the huge monk just saved him from another ass kicking. "Now where could that necromancer have gone?" The new three amigos spent some time asking about Aleister but nobody knew where he had gone. "That is unfortunate, but come! We have muskies to thrash!" ------

Aleister openned his eyes to white clouds and blue skies, feeling rather peaceful. His peace lasted long enough for him to blink. Then the ache in his groin came rushing back making him groan in agony. While the necromancer was recovering from his bruises, Yor and Lavenus policed the area gathering up the bodies and what remained of the caravan goods. Aparently, two wagon loads had been carried off before their arrival along with 7 guard bodies. After they were for the most part rested and healed, they made their way back to the town of Cowscrossing.

One thing you might consider is boosting some of the limitations. For example, concentrate 1/2 DCV is a huge limitation in FH that really ought to be worth more than a paltry -1/4, especially if you're playing with optional combat rules like critical hits and hit locations. On top of that, in FH you need to get used to the idea of just heaping on the limitations--incantations, gestures, concentrate, skill roll, foci, side effects, extra time. If you want to go the framework route I'd go with the EC. Multipowers and VPPs make mages much too versatile. The only problem the EC has is it really forces the mage to keep all his spells at the same active point level, which in my book is not a good thing. Another thing I'd like to point out is that mages tend to be far more powerful than any warrior under certain circumstances. They excel out of combat with powers like telepathy, detect, and healing. In combat they have to 'cheat', but can hold their own using flash, flight, desolid, area effects, and so on. In fact, flight and force field are too cheap for FH, IMO.

Wow, I'm starting to think I gave my players too many points (75+50). Oh well. The funny thing is, one PC is TOUGH, and another is really really weak (can you say 8 CON and 8 BODY?)

"ALIEN" Blood oops...

How would you make a force field that only protects against a set number of attacks no matter how strong they were? example: Force Field 10 PD / 10 ED, 5 "uses" Character A gets hit for 12, 4, 7, 20, 1 points of damage and then the Force Field drops. But up to that point the Force Field will work to it's full ability?

Re: Re: Book of New Sun and Horseclans Which books would these be? I've never heard of them and I call my world Urth (coincidence).

Re: Book of New Sun and Horseclans I used to have the Horseclans book. I want to believe I still have it hidden someplace, but I fear I may have lost it between houses. That would be a real shame. It was neat, you could play a Horse or a Cat.

Actually, it once ahain comes down to how you model spell casting in D&D to Hero. If you go by the Multipower route, then the Multipower Pool itself will have few, if any limitations. The spell slots will have a variety of limitations. In D&D not all of the spells have Gestures, Incantations, Spell Components, Concentration, and Extra Time. In fact, the majority only have 2-3 of them. So buying off some or all of the Incantations shouldn't cost very much. The Feat would be represented as learning how to cast particular spells without the incantations.

Uh, are you talking about the D&D Magic Missile spell? If I remember correctly, the magician's skill had nothing to do with how well it hit, it was the spell that was accurate. And they're Magic Missiles they don't do staggering amounts of damage. That's what Delayed Blast Fireballs, Disintegration, Meteor Swarm, Harm, Creeping Doom, Call Lightning, Bigby's Crushing Hand, and Prismatic Spray are for. I don't see where you get your joke reference from.

Why not just buy the spell without Incantations?

Fool that I was, I left such things up to (un)common sense. Even if such a character DIDN'T have the disad of "small - has problems with humans sized things" I would still rule that a small character couldn't wear human sized plate armor and use a tower shield. No "small people" characters have been made yet so I suppose it isn't too late to make a change. Knowing the player in question, he'll probably get grouchy about it and deserve the slap in the head.