Ice9

Re: Lim Value: 'Only to increase throwing distance'

This would be Hand-to-Hand Attack, not Limited STR.

And most likely an power/martial Arts to get back up to 12 DC since he planned on having 12 DC with 30 STR all the time. Advantages for that include attacks that are harder to drain (unless unified with STR).

Re: Lim Value: 'Only to increase throwing distance'

Wait, buying a RKA with RBoS and extra Strength just to throw it farther? Why not just get an RKA with "Range Based on Higher than actual Strength (-0)"?

Re: Goblyn

There isn't any reason to buy separate attacks for each hand/foot.

Claws: HKA 3d6-1

Flurry of Claws: Rapid Attack, plus CSLs (+6 w/ Claws, only to offset Multiple Attack penalty), Limited Power (3rd and 4th attacks are only HKA 2d6)

Re: Lim Value: 'Only to increase throwing distance'

As the saying goes, sufficiently undervalued limitations are indistinguishable from no limitations ... or maybe I just made that up. But really, erring too far on the low side for a limitation is just as bad as erring to far on the high side. Any power level caps should be independent of the real cost, so the "worst case scenario" is that a player has a few extra points. Conversely, valuing limitations too lightly can pressure players toward more generic abilities.

Re: Here's the scenario

But as it stands, there isn't a way to effectively interpose/block a character that moves before you do in Hero. It's been a complaint for awhile and there's been some attempt to plug the hole but nothing really solid that I know of.

Re: Lim Value: 'Only to increase throwing distance'

Still too little, IMO. I would seriously put this at -3 or more.

I blame Limited Power - for unknown reasons, it assigns values as if the scale were exponential (-2 being more than 2x the savings of -1) when in fact the opposite is true.

Re: Lim Value: 'Only to increase throwing distance'

True, but not to that extent. If it was "Strength Only For Throwing", then sure, that's not so bad a limitation (although not trivial either), and neither is "Strength, Not For Throwing". But this is Strength only for throwing distance.

Let's look at which of the functions of Strength it can fulfill:

Deal damage - No

Lift/carry heavy things - No

Perform "feats of strength" - No

Use combat manuevers (Grab, Shove, Disarm, etc) - No

Resist combat manuevers - No

Break free from Entangle - No

Throw things a long distance - Yes

That's not even close to half the uses, and "throw things a long distance" is not even equal to most single other uses, such as "deal damage" or "resist combat manuevers".

Re: Few questions about point costs

This brings me to another issue - the characters, while having characteristics, active power costs and defenses in "Standard Power Supers" range (the 400-point one), are worth more or less (we havn't finished converting as for now) between 560 (gadgeteer) and 690 (vampire brick) points.

For example, I've had characters with the same overall effectiveness cost:

400p - Character I created for a campaign.

~525p - Pregen character for a convention game I was running.

~700p - Character I made for fun, with no eye towards using points efficiently.

If you post the characters on here, you can get some feedback on how they compare to each-other and to the default Champions power level.

Re: Lim Value: 'Only to increase throwing distance'

IMO, a lot more than -1. At least -2, maybe more. Would anyone consider "Not for Throwing Distance" to be a -1 limitation on Strength? Or even -1/2? Heck, I'm not sure it would even be -1/4. When something is "less than 20% of the value", then boosting that component only is definitely not worth "half the value" - which is what -1 explicitly represents, ala Limited Power.

And even Limited Power is a bit wonky, IMO. -2 is called out as some uber-limitation, but it really isn't. It's 1/3 the cost, at best - and if a limitation was significantly more limiting than that, I would assign a higher value. It's not even like none of the existing limitations goes above that. A fairly standard "Spell" limitation set (Gestures, Incantations, OAF (staff), Extra Time (full phase), RAR) is worth more than that by itself, and "Dweomer of Heroic Strength" is going to have a lot more effect in most games than "Strength Only For Throwing Distance".

Re: Invincible

If trying to mimic a DC-like setting where Superman type characters with absurd levels of strength are prevalent, I think it's worth considering before inflating everything across the board to synch up with Strengths in the 100+ range.

To be specific:

Normal Human: 8 BODY, dies at -8 BODY, 0 rPD.

Attack strong enough to be ~90% fatal: 6d6 RKA

Defense required to be impervious to that: 36 rPD

Defense required to be usually (~75%) not even shaken (less than 10 STUN taken) by that: ~60 PD*.

* I'm guessing a bit here because the actual math is time-consuming, but it wouldn't be much less, and maybe a lot more.

Definitely not default Champions power levels .. nor should it be necessarily, different superheroes have different scales. But if you want to get the Superman effect, that's where you're looking at.

Now if you're never going to have handguns vs tanks and superheroes vs tanks in the same campaign, then it doesn't matter so much - you can scale the numbers to whatever is convenient.

Re: Group equipment MP or VPP

It's a tricky situation. I do feel that Wealth should have some effect. After all, he did spend actual points on it, it's not just purely a flavor ability. Same deal with Transform used to create objects.

Re: Magic Bow Using Monster Hunter

Also maybe some defensive training:

Hardened Will - +15 PRE, Only vs Supernatural Terror

Slippery Mind - +5 to Breakout rolls

I made one organization with a "monster fighting" MA style. Based on the idea that you want to avoid the foes as much as possible, and definitely not be in a grab with them. I don't have it anymore, but IIRC, the main maneuvers were:

Duck and Roll - Flying Dodge

Escape the Coils - Martial Escape

Careful Jab - Defensive Strike

Hit and Retreat - Passing Strike

Smash the Idol - Offensive Strike

Re: Best/Worst Characters?

My worst played character was Baker's Dozen' date=' a duplicating soldier, who would duplicate into (you guessed it) thirteen copies of himself that each had their own specialties and weaponry. Although the character was a cool idea, having one person playing 13 characters just totally dominated the game table. After one session, that was 80% me doing stuff, I retired him.[/quote']I had a character like that as well. Summoned creatures from the dream realm, pretty interesting to play, but dominated all opposition and slowed combat to a crawl - had to retire him pretty quickly. This also qualifies as my worst character for another reason - while I came up with a good back story, and some interesting connections, I never figured out what he did when not superhero-ing, or how he would act in a number of situations. So he came off as very flat in play.

 

 

Had an idea for a morphing character who was basically a big pile of goo. A gelatinous slime that couls shapeshift' date=' duplicate, go desolid, and take on *all* the properties of what he turned into on a slightly weaker state. I never figured out how to build him with 250 points... or even 375 points.[/quote']Multiform! I actually made a character somewhat like this, a blob of living oil/polymer that could change its shape, structure, and (to an extent) chemical properties. If anything, I had too many points - because of Multiform, I was effectively gaining points at nearly 5x the normal rate. Bought a lot of contacts, and then just ignored the surplus. A fun character to play as though - while not stupid, it was quite naive and new to the superhero thing, so often didn't realize that it could easily handle something until a team-member explained how. And was also rather hyper-active.

Re: Camera

Camera - Clairsentience; Sight, Hearing, HRRP; "HRRP is for transmit Only" -1/4

It can see and hear and send over radio those two groups back to the "powers owner", as this is most likely anyone with a Television:

 

Television - HRRP; Television Frequencies Only -1/4, Affected as Sight & Hearing Groups as well as Radio Group -1/2

I guess, if you were getting extremely technical, the "Transmit based" version would be to build the camera as a very weak Automaton. No movement, no abilities besides HRRP w/ Transmit, maybe Absolute Time Sense (if you can set a timer) and/or Eidetic Memory (if it also stores what it sends). Potentially a single "Language" known - ie. whatever transmission protocol it uses. Probably costs about 1 point, bought via ... Vehicles and Bases, I guess? Note that the transmission could be tapped into by anybody with a receiver.

Re: Adjusting DCV

Wich is why there is an ecouragement for the GM to not allow that in the books. Sorry' date=' but regulary hitting a target with a 1d6 Entangle (that will never hold) just to drop it's DCV is just not how the power is inteded to work.[/quote']1d6 was just an example. Since we're talking about a 60p Drain, let's talk about a 60p Entangle - we'll take the "Only takes damage when targetted" advantage, so that's what, 4d6? That's strong enough that most characters can't casual out of it, so even if the house-rule you mentioned was being used, it wouldn't matter.

 

So:

Entangle: Get auto-hit (and auto-headshotted, if hit locations are being used) until your next phase, then have to spend an action breaking free (and for a few characters, they may have trouble doing so).

Drain DCV: -2 DCV; lasts longer, but they never have to use an action and are never Move-Through/Headshot fodder.

 

A 1d6 Entangle should be easily demolished by Casual STR. The addition of Casual use of other powers in 6e (a development I was quite happy to see) also allows it to be shredded by pretty much any attack power immediately. Problem solved?

Without a house-rule, you still don't get that chance to escape until you can take an action. Also, as mentioned, for the cost of a decent drain, you get an Entangle strong enough that most characters can't Casual out of it.

Re: Adjusting DCV

. I think it is a vestigial ruling from several editions ago prompted by someone getting pwned by Bruiser or something ridiculous like that.

Now for DCV, I don't think it's necessary. For one thing, Entangle is much better at the job - even a 1d6 Entangle will allow a guaranteed hit if timed right, and with the "does not take damage unless specifically targetted" advantage, it can provide an entire phase of them - by which point the target will probably be KO'd. And at 5 points per rank, DCV has not gotten much cheaper from 5E.

Re: Mook/Armor combo

A Multipower with a custom "non-Instant" limitation on the Summon (which I would put at -1/2) seems appropriate. Or alternately, just build both separately and give the Armor a "not while Summon is active" limitation (somewhere in the -1/2 to -1 range, IMO).

So for example:

33 Drone Swarm: Multipower (50p), all slots OIF (-1/2)

3u Armor Mode: Resistant Protection (16 PD, 16 ED)

2u Coherent Swarm: Summon 125-point Drone Swarm, Totally Devoted (+1), Non-Instant (-1/2)

2u Dispersed Swarm: Summon 16x 25-point Drones, Totally Devoted (+1), Non-Instant (-1/2)

Alternate method:

Buy the drones as followers, and give them this power:

Armor Interlock - Resistant Protection (# PD, # ED), Usable By Other, Concentration (total, throughout); plus Clinging

So any or all of the drones can attach to you and give up their actions (total concentration) to provide you with a defense bonus.

Re: Which export format do you like to use at conventions?

it is getting a bit hard to read with my current round of Fantasy HERO characters, as the more limitations you put onto things, the worse it parses on the PDF character sheet.

One I used recently was "Aura" which was the composition of No Range, Constant, Uncontrolled, Reduced END (0 END), and Lockout.

Re: I still don't understand why Linked is always a limitation

you would attack twice in a Phase (I assume that's what he means by multiple power attack; I'm still learning all the lingo). This gives you a -2 OCV for each attack, the possibility that the first attack will miss (automatically causing the second to miss), and half your DCV.

Re: Which export format do you like to use at conventions?

I haven't found any export formats that work quite how I want them to, so I usually just roll my own (type it in a two-column format manually). With a little formatting, I've gotten a layout that looks similar to the example characters in the 6E book.

I definitely condense though - point costs, gone. Limitations on frameworks just listed for the framework, not each power separately. Abbreviations like OIF and 1/2 END, and not listing modifiers that are already subsumed by the definition of the power (such as Expanded Result Group / Limited Target Group for Transform).

I haven't had any confusion with them, but I've only run a couple convention games so far.

Re: Knockback Attack

Balance wise, my feeling is that an "Only knockback" attack should do DC x 2m of knockback. My reasoning for this is that hitting a wall will then do the normal DCs of damage. At that, point, compared to a normal blast, you have:

- Only does half damage if they don't hit a wall

+ Sends them flying significantly farther

- Less effect against KB-resistant targets

+ More effect against flying targets

Which seems about balanced. So by that metric, Blast, x2 KB is not quite up to par. 3-Point Power, Does Knockback isn't either, but 3-Point Power, x2 KB goes a bit too high.

Re: Banish Demon with Extradimensional Movement (6E)

The opposed EGO roll seems like a reasonable defense for the UaA, so I don't think it needs to be a separate limitation.

Also, I would put Only vs Demons at a lot more than -1, unless this is a very demon-heavy campaign. That's assuming that close to half the foes the PCs face will be demons!

As for the demons returning - it depends how they got there in the first place.

If they're powerful enough to just travel to Earth directly, then yeah, this won't do it without something else to keep them away. But if they need a special portal, or to be invited in, then it will stop them for a while at least.

Re: Megascale costs

Generally speaking - Megascale can only be used outside Personal Movement; meaning the shortest distance you can Megascale Move is 1km. Below that you'll need Personal Meters.

Also - all Megascale Movement is automatically Non-Combat Movement, so tactically it can be a very bad decision to "Megascale Move 10m" anyway, you drop your DCV and OCV to Non-Combat Movement levels.

Re: Megascale costs

For pure long-distance travel, then sure, the second is better. The first does give you a bit more flexibility.

Also, I'm not sure how Change Environment interacts with Megascale, but it's possible that the second version would be completely stopped by CE: -1m with Teleportation. Admittedly, a somewhat niche situation.

Re: Inverting Limitations

Not unless it's very difficult for you NOT to wear the OIF - for example, you need it to survive. Even an either/or condition (you have other powers of equal or greater strength that rely on the OIF) probably wouldn't be worth that much (in the -1/2 to -1 range, IMO).

If it's literally something like: "Strength, Only while not wearing a tie", then I'd call that a -0.