Khas Posted July 3, 2019 Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 Hi all, as suggested i paste here my two questions: -the first one is if a continuing charge can be applied to endurance reserve and if the reserve when activated works normally for the time the charge allows; -the second one is if is correct to build a power linked to an endurance reserve with continuing charges to render a weapon or power with cooldown I tried to build such a power this way: Blast 8d6 40bp; double endurance (-1/2), jointly linked - 1/4. Total cost 23pt Endurance reserve 80 end, 3 rec (23bp); restricted use - 1/4, 6 continuing charges 5min - 0, delayed use 1 hour (-1,5), jointly linked - 1/2. Total cost 7pt I didn't find any examples of such a power, if you have suggestions should be very helpful 😊 My only concern in using delayed use is that it seems to work just for a single use with a consequent cooldown, so i tried this building for a limited time use with a following cooldown. Thanks for the suggestiins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Democracy Posted July 3, 2019 Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 I am not quite sure what you are trying to achieve with your build. If a player gave that to me, with no explanation I am not sure I would understand what he was wanting to achieve. I might get to the point where I had a blast power that used 8 END for 8D6 damage. I could only use that when the END reserve was available (from the linked) and the END reserve could be activated six times a day for periods of 5 minutes and no charge could be expended within an hour of a previous one. As GM I would question the linked limitations you are using - the END reserve and the Blast are linked - it feels like you are limiting them because the blast only uses the reserve and the reserve only feeds the blast. I am also not sure you get the cooldown aspect you are looking for, why only six times a day if it only takes an hour to cool down?? I would give the gun a limitation based on Burn-out (you find that within activation roll text). So, first shot is free, for every shot that is within five minutes of the previous one you have a chance to burn out the weapon, which would need an hour to cool down enough to fire again. What is the limitation? Not sure. 🙂 Firing it once, no limitation, no chance to burn out. Firing it twice, burn-out chance over 17 on 3d6?? over 15? This is where you begin. Every subsequent shot reduces the number needed for the weapon to burn out. Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khas Posted July 3, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 My idea is to have a power usable freely for a while and after that disabled until it "recovers". Delayed use would be perfect but it only works for one use of the power befor having a cooldown. So i'm looking for a way to build it properly and a continuing charge applied to an endurance reserve that fuels the power might do the job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted July 3, 2019 Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 You don't need an END Reserve. You need a power that works for 5 minutes then shuts down for an hour. Khas' Gun: (Total: 80 Active Cost, 25 Real Cost) Blast 8d6, Time Limit (5 Minutes; +1) (80 Active Points); 16 clips of 1 Continuing Charge lasting 5 Minutes (Increased Reloading Time: 1 Hour; -1 1/4), OAF (-1) (Real Cost: 25) Works for five minutes then shuts down for an hour. Lucius Alexander I don' t need a palindromedary, I just need a tagline that references one. ScottishFox, Khas, TranquiloUno and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khas Posted July 3, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 Thanks but the problem with continuing charges is that "Characters can only use this option with Constant or Persistent Powers." as stated in 6E1 page 369, so i was looking for a work around the problem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Democracy Posted July 3, 2019 Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 1 hour ago, Khas said: My idea is to have a power usable freely for a while and after that disabled until it "recovers". Delayed use would be perfect but it only works for one use of the power befor having a cooldown. So i'm looking for a way to build it properly and a continuing charge applied to an endurance reserve that fuels the power might do the job. Well, if you set the END Reserve up such that it has enough END to power the weapon for a chunk of uses and limit the Recovery such that the battery "only recovers in Cool-down mode, 1 hour". What that means is that you get to use the END for as long as you want and then put the weapon into cooldown, at which point it begins Recovering and will be unusable for 1 hour. You can look at Lucius' build for continuing charges to get an idea of what the limitations should be. Doc Duke Bushido 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja-Bear Posted July 3, 2019 Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 How about just a high charges say 32 and with recoverable whereas recoverable is defined as resting 1 hour? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oruncrest Posted July 3, 2019 Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 That's what Time Limit is for. It makes an instant power function similarly to a constant power for the duration. In this case, you'll be able to used your gun for 5 minutes after the first use, then it shuts down and the way Lucius set up charges(*) means you won't be able to use that clip for an hour. (*Of course, with 16 clips, you can just switch out 1 clip for another (1 phase) and be good to go for another 5 minutes. by the time you've used the 16th clip, the first 4 will be ready to go again. Did you intend for that Lucius?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted July 3, 2019 Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 If you want an Endurance Reserve that's around for a finite amount of time (as opposed to just how long it takes to use the END in it); Add Continuing Charges to the Endurance Reserve; Delayed Use just means it will take an hour to turn on, not an hour of use. You don't need to Link the blast to the Endurance Reserve; when you buy a power you define which Endurance it uses (Personal or Reserve) and to use both requires an Advantage. If you want the weapon to have a cool down period, build that into the weapon side "Can only be used once every X Minutes" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted July 3, 2019 Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 1 hour ago, Oruncrest said: That's what Time Limit is for. It makes an instant power function similarly to a constant power for the duration. In this case, you'll be able to used your gun for 5 minutes after the first use, then it shuts down and the way Lucius set up charges(*) means you won't be able to use that clip for an hour. (*Of course, with 16 clips, you can just switch out 1 clip for another (1 phase) and be good to go for another 5 minutes. by the time you've used the 16th clip, the first 4 will be ready to go again. Did you intend for that Lucius?) I did not intend that, and I did not do that. Emphasis added: 3 hours ago, Lucius said: You don't need an END Reserve. You need a power that works for 5 minutes then shuts down for an hour. Khas' Gun: (Total: 80 Active Cost, 25 Real Cost) Blast 8d6, Time Limit (5 Minutes; +1) (80 Active Points); 16 clips of 1 Continuing Charge lasting 5 Minutes (Increased Reloading Time: 1 Hour; -1 1/4), OAF (-1) (Real Cost: 25) Works for five minutes then shuts down for an hour. Lucius Alexander I don' t need a palindromedary, I just need a tagline that references one. You cannot "switch out one clip for another (1 phase.)" It takes an hour to switch clips, the way I built it. My mistake was in overlooking that a character switching clips can do nothing else during that time. If one is willing to handwave that, my build is a solution: Othrwise my build is a failure. Lucius Alexander The palindromedary reminds me that, speaking of charges, I need to go get a new battery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khas Posted July 3, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 3 hours ago, Doc Democracy said: Well, if you set the END Reserve up such that it has enough END to power the weapon for a chunk of uses and limit the Recovery such that the battery "only recovers in Cool-down mode, 1 hour". What that means is that you get to use the END for as long as you want and then put the weapon into cooldown, at which point it begins Recovering and will be unusable for 1 hour. You can look at Lucius' build for continuing charges to get an idea of what the limitations should be. Doc That was my first idea and works but wasn't exactly what i had in mind, but is an option Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khas Posted July 3, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 3 hours ago, Oruncrest said: That's what Time Limit is for. It makes an instant power function similarly to a constant power for the duration. In this case, you'll be able to used your gun for 5 minutes after the first use, then it shuts down and the way Lucius set up charges(*) means you won't be able to use that clip for an hour. (*Of course, with 16 clips, you can just switch out 1 clip for another (1 phase) and be good to go for another 5 minutes. by the time you've used the 16th clip, the first 4 will be ready to go again. Did you intend for that Lucius?) This is interesting but is an advantage and just makes an instant power ready without preparation for that time and is not a period during which the power is disabled Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khas Posted July 3, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 2 hours ago, ghost-angel said: If you want an Endurance Reserve that's around for a finite amount of time (as opposed to just how long it takes to use the END in it); Add Continuing Charges to the Endurance Reserve; Delayed Use just means it will take an hour to turn on, not an hour of use. You don't need to Link the blast to the Endurance Reserve; when you buy a power you define which Endurance it uses (Personal or Reserve) and to use both requires an Advantage. If you want the weapon to have a cool down period, build that into the weapon side "Can only be used once every X Minutes" My first intent is not an endurance reserve with cooldown but that is a work around to disable the blast linked to it. The link is only beacause the two power cannot be used alone but need the other one, so when the endurance reserve is disabled, the blast is disabled too. I know that delayed use is for the time the power is not avaible, that's the intent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted July 3, 2019 Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 1 hour ago, Khas said: My first intent is not an endurance reserve with cooldown but that is a work around to disable the blast linked to it. The link is only beacause the two power cannot be used alone but need the other one, so when the endurance reserve is disabled, the blast is disabled too. I know that delayed use is for the time the power is not avaible, that's the intent If you define the Blast as using Endurance Reserve END, then if the Endurance Reserve is turned off, depleted, or otherwise disabled then the Blast will also be unusable. You cannot freely change the source of Endurance of a Power, so that aspect is already built into the concept by using an Endurance Reserve at all. But; if you need two powers tied closely together that will be the Unified Limitation; but that has the additional issue that if the Blast is Drained then the END Reserve is also Drained. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theinfn8 Posted July 3, 2019 Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 I like Lucius’ build, it’s a nice clean implementation. I’ve had several different thoughts on the question at hand, but the truth is, I don’t really know *exactly* what is being built. Going bare bones, since you say you don’t need the Endurance Reserve, and the cooldown seems to be the most important thing, I submit the following: Kha(o)s Cannon: (Active Cost: 80, Real Cost: 32) Blast 8d6, Time Limit (5 Minutes; +1); Limited Power: Delayed Use (1 hour; -1.5) Using Limited Power for cooldown is in APG1. This will allow the use of the power for 5 minutes from first use, then lock it out after the power is done being used for 1 hour. Khas 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted July 3, 2019 Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 If the important part is you can't use the Power for an hour after it's used then just add a Custom Limitation "Can only be used for 5 Minutes, then Cannot be used for 1 Hour after That Period" -1 or 1 1/2, whatever the GM feels is appropriate. It's really that simple. Khas and bigbywolfe 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted July 3, 2019 Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 Here's another idea of how to get this interaction without weird Limitation Rules interactions; Endurance Reserve; 5 Minute Continuous Charge Blast; uses END Reserve, Limited Power: Cannot be used for an hour after the END Reserves Charge runs out of time. Probably the cleanest build I can think of without wondering how Delayed Use, Charges, End Reserves, Linked, or Unified Powers work together. Don't be afraid to work with the GM to create Custom Limitations to get a more precision execution of your vision into the game. That's what "Limited Power" Limitation is for. Khas, ScottishFox, Doc Democracy and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottishFox Posted July 3, 2019 Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 5 minutes ago, ghost-angel said: Here's another idea of how to get this interaction without weird Limitation Rules interactions; Endurance Reserve; 5 Minute Continuous Charge Blast; uses END Reserve, Limited Power: Cannot be used for an hour after the END Reserves Charge runs out of time. Probably the cleanest build I can think of without wondering how Delayed Use, Charges, End Reserves, Linked, or Unified Powers work together. Don't be afraid to work with the GM to create Custom Limitations to get a more precision execution of your vision into the game. That's what "Limited Power" Limitation is for. Expanding on this, unless I missed something earlier, wouldn't the OP also be able to just use: Limited Power: Can be used for up to 5 minutes and then requires a 1 hour recharging period (-1 ish). Khas and Duke Bushido 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khas Posted July 3, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 9 minutes ago, ScottishFox said: Expanding on this, unless I missed something earlier, wouldn't the OP also be able to just use: Limited Power: Can be used for up to 5 minutes and then requires a 1 hour recharging period (-1 ish). Yes i was just trying to buil something whitout a custom limited power but that may be the best solution anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khas Posted July 3, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 42 minutes ago, theinfn8 said: I like Lucius’ build, it’s a nice clean implementation. I’ve had several different thoughts on the question at hand, but the truth is, I don’t really know *exactly* what is being built. Going bare bones, since you say you don’t need the Endurance Reserve, and the cooldown seems to be the most important thing, I submit the following: Kha(o)s Cannon: (Active Cost: 80, Real Cost: 32) Blast 8d6, Time Limit (5 Minutes; +1); Limited Power: Delayed Use (1 hour; -1.5) Using Limited Power for cooldown is in APG1. This will allow the use of the power for 5 minutes from first use, then lock it out after the power is done being used for 1 hour. The problem with delayed use is that it allows just one use of the power before the cooldown if i understood correctly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khas Posted July 3, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 3 hours ago, Lucius said: I did not intend that, and I did not do that. Emphasis added: You cannot "switch out one clip for another (1 phase.)" It takes an hour to switch clips, the way I built it. My mistake was in overlooking that a character switching clips can do nothing else during that time. If one is willing to handwave that, my build is a solution: Othrwise my build is a failure. Lucius Alexander The palindromedary reminds me that, speaking of charges, I need to go get a new battery. The continuing charge would have been my first choice if it would be usable with instant powers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theinfn8 Posted July 3, 2019 Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 48 minutes ago, Khas said: The problem with delayed use is that it allows just one use of the power before the cooldown if i understood correctly Right. That's why the Time Limit. The one use lasts 5 minutes. It technically doesn't "end" before the 5 minutes is up. Khas 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eepjr24 Posted July 3, 2019 Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 This is one of those rare times when I don't like Time Limit as an advantage because you are actually paying more points for the ability to use something less. I'd probably do the custom limitation here or even just a side effect? It ends up being an over all -1/2 to the original AP, which seems fair to me. You could even argue the side effect should be -3/4 (RP of 22) since the "predefined damage" is actually just a standard result of the d6 rolls. 8d6 Blast, 40 AP, [Extreme Side Effect: 13d6 Drain of Blast (40 points of drain) occurs 5 minutes after first use since last side effect, Recover 5 AP per 7.5 minutes (+1.5), Power does not recover until all points are returned (+0), 325 AP, Predefined Damage, Set Effect] (-1/2) 27 RP - E Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theinfn8 Posted July 4, 2019 Report Share Posted July 4, 2019 4 hours ago, eepjr24 said: This is one of those rare times when I don't like Time Limit as an advantage because you are actually paying more points for the ability to use something less. I'd probably do the custom limitation here or even just a side effect? It ends up being an over all -1/2 to the original AP, which seems fair to me. You could even argue the side effect should be -3/4 (RP of 22) since the "predefined damage" is actually just a standard result of the d6 rolls. 8d6 Blast, 40 AP, [Extreme Side Effect: 13d6 Drain of Blast (40 points of drain) occurs 5 minutes after first use since last side effect, Recover 5 AP per 7.5 minutes (+1.5), Power does not recover until all points are returned (+0), 325 AP, Predefined Damage, Set Effect] (-1/2) 27 RP - E Well, there is a weird RAW side effect of using Time Limit that I would ignore, using the power each time is technically a Zero Phase action, though using it would still count as an attack and thus end your turn. But this would technically make it an advantage, since you would have your full phase available for non-attack actions, then toss an attack out at the end. OP seemed to want something straight from the books, or I would have customized it and split the difference on the two as you suggested. (-1/2) maybe (-3/4). Suppose it depends what kind of game your running and whether an hour to wait is really much of a limitation. If I'm a dungeon crawling wizard, then an hour could be a lifetime. If I'm a space smuggler who only really needs to get out of bad situations every now and then, an hour might not be such a bad thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oruncrest Posted July 4, 2019 Report Share Posted July 4, 2019 9 hours ago, Khas said: This is interesting but is an advantage and just makes an instant power ready without preparation for that time and is not a period during which the power is disabled Actually, when applied to an instant power, Time Limit allows a character to use that power without having to allow for any limitations that might prevent that power from activating for the duration of the time limit. That's why Time Limit is an advantage for instant powers. After the first use, it allows you to ignore limitations like Gestures (do this to activate), Incantations (say this to activate), Focus (have this to activate)… ...and Charges (wait a period of time between activations). Which is why I think Lucius' build works (especially now that I'm not confusing Reloading with Recovering).Each 'clip' has one Continuing (I could see an argument for not needing this modifier, but some GMs might want it as it shows that the charge is still ongoing even thou the Blast has already been fired) Charge that the Time Limit nullifies for five minutes, enabling the 'Khas Gun' to fire again and again until the times' up. Once the Time Limit's duration has ended the 'clip' modifier activates, and the 'khas Guns' cooldown period begins and can't be used again for an hour. Wash, rinse, repeat another 15 times. Duke Bushido 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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