Complex Attack Power Help

[Octotroph]

I've had a few ideas for attacks that I need help properly fleshing out. I may be overthinking some of them, so feel free to tell me that.

 

1. Cluster Grenade: Toss a grenade that contains smaller grenades that spread out thanks to an initial explosion. The image in my mind would be an initial AoE explosion that spreads 10 or so additional smaller AoE explosions that occur with their centers randomly dispersed across the initial AoE. The first explosion would be weak but large, and the others would be small but powerful.

 

2. Ricochet Shot: Fire a projectile at a wall (bullet, thrown ring, stone, superbouncy ball, etc) that, well, ricochets and hits a target that you know is there but can't actually see. I feel like this would be more complicated than just taking the Indirect advantage for a ranged attack. Since it's essentially blind-fire there should be a larger chance it misses.

 

3. Bouncing Blade / Chain Lightning: The same as above except the initial target is an enemy, not a wall, and it bounces to another enemy. Both #2 and #3 were shamelessly stolen from Captain America's shield-throwing prowess.

 

4. Living Bomb (from Heroes of the Storm's Kael'thas): Hit an initial target. After a short delay, it explodes in an AoE. Any other creatures caught within this blast have this effect applied to them. After a short delay, it explodes in an AoE. Rinse, Repeat.

 

Bonus points if you know how to make a thrown ring or shield return to you, again like Cap.

 

Note: I was not actually trying to make Cap, but he's got a lot of moves that I realized as I was asking for help were similar to what I wanted to make.

[massey]

1.  It's going to be cheaper to have one large explosion or area of effect, and then put a custom limitation on it.  So something like 10D6 Energy Blast, Area of Effect Radius with increased area, Limited Power: only does 6D6 in largest blast, does full 10D6 in smaller blasts (then define how big those are)

 

2.  Indirect works fine.  If you can't see them, you'll take an OCV penalty anyway.

 

3.  Area of Effect: Any Area, with a limitation that you have to roll to hit each one.  Or Indirect and Autofire can work as well.

 

4.  Similar to #1, except with a really really big Area of Effect.  10D6 Energy Blast, Area of Effect Radius with very large increased area, Limited Power: works how you described it.  This power would normally do 10D6 to everybody in a very large area.  Now it only "chains" out if there are people nearby to carry it further.  Note:  this will only explode once.  Two dudes next to each other won't just go trading explosions back and forth.  To do that, you need Continuous and Uncontrolled.

 

5.  Just buy the thrown shield as an Energy Blast.  You aren't actually throwing anything, just using a blast power.  It's just a visual effect that something gets thrown, and therefore it always returns.  Put a limitation on it if you want enemies to have a chance to intercept it.

 

6.  There's nothing wrong with wanting to build Cap.

[Duke Bushido]

also #2:

 

Do the current rules not contain the "bouncing an attack" rules anymore?  If so, it's pretty much a maneuver for any ranged attack.

 

Also #5:

 

You can do some sort of Limitation to simulate having to wait an additional Phase for it to return, if that more closely simulates the feel you want.  You could even tack on "restrainable (after the first attack); at any point along the attack path" to simulate someone grabbing it and preventing it from coming back.

[Chris Goodwin]

21 minutes ago, Duke Bushido said:

also #2:

 

Do the current rules not contain the "bouncing an attack" rules anymore?  If so, it's pretty much a maneuver for any ranged attack.

 

They do!  6e2 p. 41, Champions Complete p. 145, Fantasy Hero Complete p. 170.

[Duke Bushido]

Thanks, Amigo.

 

Yes indeed.  #2 is unnecessary, unless you just want to be able to bounce of sheets of glad wrap or something like that.

[Doc Democracy]

1 hour ago, massey said:

1.  It's going to be cheaper to have one large explosion or area of effect, and then put a custom limitation on it.  So something like 10D6 Energy Blast, Area of Effect Radius with increased area, Limited Power: only does 6D6 in largest blast, does full 10D6 in smaller blasts (then define how big those are)

 

This is good advice, where possible keep the mechanics simple.

 

I would say that you buy a compound power 6D6 area effect+8D6 area effect (11 or less activation, max of 10 targets). 

 

Anyone in the area rolls 3D6, on 11 or less they face 14D6 damage, otherwise they face 6D6 damage. Only ten people can be affected by the higher damage.

 

The 11 or less reflects the chance of being hit be the random secondary explosions.

 

Doc

[Tech]

Alternate for the Bouncing Blade / Chain Lightning, try Blast, with +5d6 additional Blast: only to spread.

[Hugh Neilson]

Lots of great suggestions so far...

 

18 hours ago, Octotroph said:

I've had a few ideas for attacks that I need help properly fleshing out. I may be overthinking some of them, so feel free to tell me that.

 

1. Cluster Grenade: Toss a grenade that contains smaller grenades that spread out thanks to an initial explosion. The image in my mind would be an initial AoE explosion that spreads 10 or so additional smaller AoE explosions that occur with their centers randomly dispersed across the initial AoE. The first explosion would be weak but large, and the others would be small but powerful.

 

This just feels like it would be a PITA in the actual game.  First roll to target the AoE, then roll to target the random higher damage explosions, then figure out the damage from each explosion to each target, then make all those damage rolls, well, it's 2 AM; guess we'll pack it up and resume from here next game.  If you want an AoE attack that is randomly more damaging to some targets,

 

I'd use a base AoE, then add dice based on an activation roll.  For example, perhaps this is a 6d6 AoE Radius Explosion that fades at 1d6 per 4 meters.  That's a pretty large area.  Now, add +1d6 on each of a 15-, 14-, 13-, 12-, 11-, 10-, 9- and 8- roll.  That's up to 8d6 added.  Agree with your GM that you roll one activation roll per target.  That determines how much bigger the attack that affects this target will be.   So Target 1 is dead center, 6d6, and the activation roll is 16, so 6d6 is all he takes.  Target 2 is 5 meters away, so 4d6 base and the activation roll is a 10, so that's 6 of the potential 8 extra dice - we add 6d6 to whatever is left on the 4d6 explosion dice.  Still a lot of rolls to resolve the attack.

 

Note that the additional dice are not "explosive" so they do not fade with distance from center.

 

18 hours ago, Octotroph said:

2. Ricochet Shot: Fire a projectile at a wall (bullet, thrown ring, stone, superbouncy ball, etc) that, well, ricochets and hits a target that you know is there but can't actually see. I feel like this would be more complicated than just taking the Indirect advantage for a ranged attack. Since it's essentially blind-fire there should be a larger chance it misses.

 

3. Bouncing Blade / Chain Lightning: The same as above except the initial target is an enemy, not a wall, and it bounces to another enemy. Both #2 and #3 were shamelessly stolen from Captain America's shield-throwing prowess.

 

Bonus points if you know how to make a thrown ring or shield return to you, again like Cap.

 

Plenty of good comments on this already.  A lot depends on how many targets you want a chance to hit, and how reliable you want it to be.  Another option is the Multiple Attack maneuver, perhaps with penalty skill levels to offset some OCV penalties, but I doubt you want to be at half DCV.

 

It's a Blast is the best answer for Return. In addition to the suggestions above, the Physical Manifestation limitation seems reasonable to simulate the effect that, if deflected, he loses his Focus and has to retrieve it.

 

18 hours ago, Octotroph said:

4. Living Bomb (from Heroes of the Storm's Kael'thas): Hit an initial target. After a short delay, it explodes in an AoE. Any other creatures caught within this blast have this effect applied to them. After a short delay, it explodes in an AoE. Rinse, Repeat.

 

Again, potential to be a real PITA, but this could be one AoE attack, plus a second with a Trigger (hit by the first attack or a triggered attack) that automatically resets, and goes off after that "short delay".  This would be very expensive, as it should be for its potential impact. 

[dsatow]

On 6/4/2019 at 11:48 AM, Octotroph said:

1. Cluster Grenade: Toss a grenade that contains smaller grenades that spread out thanks to an initial explosion. The image in my mind would be an initial AoE explosion that spreads 10 or so additional smaller AoE explosions that occur with their centers randomly dispersed across the initial AoE. The first explosion would be weak but large, and the others would be small but powerful.

 

 I generally prefer the K.I.S.S. method and would treat this as one large AoE attack and use special effects to describe the multiple explosions.  One reason to do it with one large area effect attack is that rolling lots of multiple attacks in a game really slows down the pace of the game as you figure out who gets hits and how much damage the explosions do.

 

On 6/4/2019 at 11:48 AM, Octotroph said:

2. Ricochet Shot: Fire a projectile at a wall (bullet, thrown ring, stone, superbouncy ball, etc) that, well, ricochets and hits a target that you know is there but can't actually see. I feel like this would be more complicated than just taking the Indirect advantage for a ranged attack. Since it's essentially blind-fire there should be a larger chance it misses.

 

As noted, there exists rules for this but personally, I'd rather just use the indirect advantage.  If you can't see the target using either the rules or the indirect advantage, you are still shooting blind.  The main advantage with the indirect advantage is that you don't need to know if the wall can take the damage and bounce the attack.

 

On 6/4/2019 at 11:48 AM, Octotroph said:

3. Bouncing Blade / Chain Lightning: The same as above except the initial target is an enemy, not a wall, and it bounces to another enemy. Both #2 and #3 were shamelessly stolen from Captain America's shield-throwing prowess.

 

I'd personally just use an area of effect selective attack, but using existing maneuvers work too.  Technically, you can also get away with autofire especially with the autofire skills(skipover fire, etc.).

 

On 6/4/2019 at 11:48 AM, Octotroph said:

4. Living Bomb (from Heroes of the Storm's Kael'thas): Hit an initial target. After a short delay, it explodes in an AoE. Any other creatures caught within this blast have this effect applied to them. After a short delay, it explodes in an AoE. Rinse, Repeat.

 

Personally, it sounds like an overpowered power and I'd probably wouldn't allow it.  However, I am not your GM.  You might get away with a AoE explosion sticky continuous with time delay or extra time.  In any case, your GM will probably want you to have a reasonable way to break the chain of explosions.

 

On 6/4/2019 at 11:48 AM, Octotroph said:

Bonus points if you know how to make a thrown ring or shield return to you, again like Cap.

 

That is usually just a special effect, like Thor's hammer with possibly a limitation, can be caught or deflected.

[BoloOfEarth]

On 6/4/2019 at 2:48 PM, Octotroph said:

Bonus points if you know how to make a thrown ring or shield return to you, again like Cap.

 

I see two options:

1. Have a CSL for the Thrown Ring or Shield (big enough CSL to encompass all attacks) and then always use that level with the Bouncing rules to have the focus return to you.  That's what I did with a character throwing custom boomerangs.
2. Have the attacks on OIF rather than OAF, and define the "Inaccessible" part as the thrown ring / shield always bouncing back to return to sender.  You could maybe justify a -1/4 Restrainable limitation (normally not allowed in addition to a Focus, IIRC) that the object might be intercepted and not return to the neo-Cap.