Build this power

[Brian Stanfield]

3 hours ago, Christopher said:

Scarily Powerfull != Not that Powerfull? I am seriously not sure where you reading veered off to get that missinterpretation.

 

I was literally talking about the most OP stuff in the basegame and it being around "Affects Real World" for Desolid" (+2). Wich is the highest advantage value used in the vanilla books (save for some self build ones like Characters  and trigers).

If you ever need more then a +2 Advantage for any effect, you should either split it. Or just accept that there is no advantage number that could balance it.

 

Scroll up: this was literally just discussed as being a misunderstanding of your misspelling. . .

[Cassandra]

It would be easier to buy Invisible [Sight] Only against characters who have a Mental Entangle Attack.

[Christopher]

1 hour ago, Brian Stanfield said:

 

Scroll up: this was literally just discussed as being a misunderstanding of your misspelling. . .

Look on the Previous page: I had deleted that and written a new response 3 hours ago. How long did that message sat there, waiting to be finished?

[Amorkca]

I was thinking along the same lines as Cassandra, Invisibility to mental entangles.

[Christopher]

3 hours ago, Amorkca said:

I was thinking along the same lines as Cassandra, Invisibility to mental entangles.

IIRC that would not work if the entangle is defined as some kind of AoE.

And even without taregetting sense, you get 1/2 OCV to hit.

[Doc Democracy]

That is interesting and possibly something Steve has opined on previously.

 

Mental Powers require line of sight.  If you have no line of sight can they be used (I envisage the situation where there is no targetting sense that can be used)...???

[Duke Bushido]

Will this model the effect of being immune, or does this more model being difficult to _hit_ with the attack? 

 

I don't have a pony in this show, and I am very intrigued by the invisible idea, but does it provide the specific thing the OP is looking for? 

[Cassandra]

15 hours ago, Christopher said:

IIRC that would not work if the entangle is defined as some kind of AoE.

And even without taregetting sense, you get 1/2 OCV to hit.

 

Even on an ECV attack?

[Christopher]

52 minutes ago, Cassandra said:

  

Even on an ECV attack?

Why not?

 

AoE is simply a way to affect multiple targets that are in close proximtiy to another. Or a way to get around the (M)DCV value of the target.

[dmjalund]

Unless te mental power targets DCV, does it make sense for a locatio’n to have a DMCV?

[Doc Democracy]

would be a possibility, a grenade that jams brainwaves, mentally freezing everyone within the area of effect...

 

I think you would use CV to hit the target hex but would probably need to use OMCV to affect those within the area of effect but there would be no need for line of sight.

 

Invisibility would not defend against this...

[Greywind]

On 10/24/2018 at 2:21 PM, Tech said:

That's not totally accurate. 3 always hits, 18 always misses. You can build a power however you want, even if it doesn't go 'by the rules': a campaign is whatever someone makes it. Anyways, on to the power build: for myself, I was thinking Desolid only vs mental entangle.

 

You're confusing a game mechanic with a power build. Dice rolls/results are a rule. Power builds are not. Within power builds Hero does not do absolutes. If you want immunity you need to know what the max level the GM will ever allow/throw at the players and build a defense big enough to ensure you will never be affected by that power. See also "One-trick pony", because you won't be able to afford anything else.

[Christopher]

14 hours ago, dmjalund said:

Unless te mental power targets DCV, does it make sense for a locatio’n to have a DMCV? 

Does it make sense that a Hex has a DCV? It is not like it is doing anything to avoid being hit.

 

What if it is a "Psionic Wave" centered around a certain Hex you aim at?

[Tech]

Thanks all for your suggestions but I'm done with this.

[Scott Ruggels]

On 10/27/2018 at 7:35 AM, Christopher said:

Does it make sense that a Hex has a DCV? It is not like it is doing anything to avoid being hit.

 

What if it is a "Psionic Wave" centered around a certain Hex you aim at?

 The Hex you are standing in has a 0 DCV, the one next to it has a 1 DCV,  subsequent hexes have a 3 DCV, then add in Range mods, and the DCV gets higher and higher the further away it is.  Which makes sense.

[BoloOfEarth]

Would Teleportation get someone out of a Mental Entangle just like it would a physical Entangle?  Rules-wise, I don't see any reason why it wouldn't, unless the attacker adds Cannot be Escaped with Teleportation to it. 

 

One might argue that a Mental Entangle means the target can't mentally activate any powers, but adding Trigger to the Teleportation should solve that problem. 

 

Brain Blips Out:  Teleportation 5m (I'm assuming a minimum cost for a campaign is in place), Safe Blind Teleport (+1/4), AP (4x; +1), Trigger (Mentally Entangled; resets automatically in no time; +1), Fully Invisible (+1), 0 END (+1/2), Persistent (+1/4); Only travels far enough to get out of the Mental Entangle (-0)  25 AP, 25 RP. 

 

For non-AoE Mental Entangles I'd expect that means he effectively doesn't go anywhere (maybe a foot or two?).  For AoE Mental Entangles - I would think such a power would need to be Constant to affect (or re-affect) people entering the area after the power originally goes off.  (After all, if you enter an area where a 10d6 Blast went off a segment earlier, you don't take the Blast damage unless it's a Constant power.)
 

[BoloOfEarth]

Alternately, +60 EGO, Only for breaking free of Mental Entangles (-2).  60 AP, 20 RP.  IME most Mental Entangles are 3d6 (or maybe 4d6), but you can adjust the amount to match the typical ME in your game.  This gives him 7d6 (or more) of "casual EGO" to (on average) shrug off the Mental Entangle, just like a 70 STR brick most likely casually shrugs off a 3d6 regular Entangle.

[Duke Bushido]

3 hours ago, Tech said:

Thanks all for your suggestions but I'm done with this.

 

So what did you come up with? 

[dsatow]

4 hours ago, BoloOfEarth said:

Would Teleportation get someone out of a Mental Entangle just like it would a physical Entangle?  Rules-wise, I don't see any reason why it wouldn't, unless the attacker adds Cannot be Escaped with Teleportation to it. 

 

One might argue that a Mental Entangle means the target can't mentally activate any powers, but adding Trigger to the Teleportation should solve that problem. 

 

Brain Blips Out:  Teleportation 5m (I'm assuming a minimum cost for a campaign is in place), Safe Blind Teleport (+1/4), AP (4x; +1), Trigger (Mentally Entangled; resets automatically in no time; +1), Fully Invisible (+1), 0 END (+1/2), Persistent (+1/4); Only travels far enough to get out of the Mental Entangle (-0)  25 AP, 25 RP. 

 

For non-AoE Mental Entangles I'd expect that means he effectively doesn't go anywhere (maybe a foot or two?).  For AoE Mental Entangles - I would think such a power would need to be Constant to affect (or re-affect) people entering the area after the power originally goes off.  (After all, if you enter an area where a 10d6 Blast went off a segment earlier, you don't take the Blast damage unless it's a Constant power.)
 

 

Most mental entangles I've seen have can not be escaped by t-port and desol on them.

[Christopher]

5 hours ago, BoloOfEarth said:

Would Teleportation get someone out of a Mental Entangle just like it would a physical Entangle?  Rules-wise, I don't see any reason why it wouldn't, unless the attacker adds Cannot be Escaped with Teleportation to it. 

Normal Entangles work based on physically preventing the movement. Chains, Goo, that sort of thing.

While mental entangles aim for disabling the mental capacity to escape/move. See my following answer

 

1 hour ago, dsatow said:

 

Most mental entangles I've seen have can not be escaped by t-port and desol on them.

If you use the Mental Paralysis from 6E1 217 this is not even nessesary:
" A character cannot escape a Mental Paralysis
with Desolidifcation. Depending on special
effects, he may still be able to Teleport, but if so
remains subject to the Mental Paralysis when he
appears at his destination."

All this despite no "can not be escaped with" Limitations.

[BoloOfEarth]

2 hours ago, Christopher said:

If you use the Mental Paralysis from 6E1 217 this is not even nessesary:

" A character cannot escape a Mental Paralysis with Desolidifcation. Depending on special effects, he may still be able to Teleport, but if so remains subject to the Mental Paralysis when he appears at his destination."

 

All this despite no "can not be escaped with" Limitations.

 

Thank you for pointing that out.  I never noticed that.  So the teleport idea is a complete bust. 

 

Anything wrong with the boosted-EGO solution?  I know a -2 Limitation is pretty major, but since it works on such a narrow basis, I think it's fairly appropriate.

[Ockham's Spoon]

Boosted EGO only vs. Mental Paralysis is probably the easiest way.

 

Mental Defense wouldn't work unless the Mental Paralysis is bought with the Limitation "Mental Defense Adds to EGO"

 

Mental Damage Negation will work (I asked Mr. Long about this sometime back) and with enough levels seems to me to be the closest mechanical fit to "immune" to Mental Paralysis.  Cost-wise it probably comes close to the boosted EGO cost: 8 levels Damage Negation, only vs. Mental Paralysis (-1) Active: 40, Real: 20.  The exact limitation amount would probably depend on how common Mental Paralysis is in your game.

 

I don't see Invisibility working without some serious hand-waving; mental powers require Line of Sight, but that just means you have a targeting sense that can detect the target, which leads to buying Invisibility vs. Sight and Mental Sense with the Limitation: Doesn't make character invisible to Sight except for targeting by Mental Powers, which is pretty wonky.  

[Christopher]

On 10/31/2018 at 3:44 AM, BoloOfEarth said:

 

Thank you for pointing that out.  I never noticed that.  So the teleport idea is a complete bust. 

 

Anything wrong with the boosted-EGO solution?  I know a -2 Limitation is pretty major, but since it works on such a narrow basis, I think it's fairly appropriate.

 

2 hours ago, Ockham's Spoon said:

Boosted EGO only vs. Mental Paralysis is probably the easiest way.

 

Mental Defense wouldn't work unless the Mental Paralysis is bought with the Limitation "Mental Defense Adds to EGO"

 

Mental Damage Negation will work (I asked Mr. Long about this sometime back) and with enough levels seems to me to be the closest mechanical fit to "immune" to Mental Paralysis.  Cost-wise it probably comes close to the boosted EGO cost: 8 levels Damage Negation, only vs. Mental Paralysis (-1) Active: 40, Real: 20.  The exact limitation amount would probably depend on how common Mental Paralysis is in your game.

 

I don't see Invisibility working without some serious hand-waving; mental powers require Line of Sight, but that just means you have a targeting sense that can detect the target, which leads to buying Invisibility vs. Sight and Mental Sense with the Limitation: Doesn't make character invisible to Sight except for targeting by Mental Powers, which is pretty wonky.  

An idea I thought about for "Mental Resistance" was not increasing the Ego directly, but increasing the Breakout roll:

"2-point Skill Levels with Breakout Roll"

each 2-point Level allows: " +1 with one Skill or Characteristic Roll". But it propably only covers Ego or Con breakout Rolls, not both.

 

The 3 point level might cover "+1 with Ego Breakout, Con Breakout and Resist Social Skill Rolls"

[Hugh Neilson]

Damage Negation, Mental, Only Mental Entangles (limit as low as the scarcity of the power mandates).

[Christopher]

9 hours ago, Hugh Neilson said:

Damage Negation, Mental, Only Mental Entangles (limit as low as the scarcity of the power mandates).

Damage Negation covering Entangles falls into GM approval. GM approval that needs some serious stretching of the meaning of the words:

"A character purchases Damage Negation
separately for each class of attacks (Physical,
Energy, or Mental). Damage Negation for any
category costs 5 Character Points per -1 DC. Tis
is considered a form of Resistant Defense. It works
against Normal Damage, AVADs, Killing Attacks,
Drain STUN or Drain BODY (but not other types
of Drains), and any other type of damage the GM
allows it to affect in its category."

6E1 133