Doc Democracy Posted May 30, 2017 Report Share Posted May 30, 2017 Hmm. Am building 4th edition characters and am finding it difficult to pick out what I can and can't do, too many versions after BBB. So, a character with Force Wall with a variable advantage can throw up walls with a variety of advantages. My question is, would he be able to throw up a zero END Force wall and then an invisible effects Force wall and the a hardened Force wall and maintain all three walls concurrently? My instinct is yes but I haven't found an explicit statement of that in the BBB... Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Goodwin Posted May 30, 2017 Report Share Posted May 30, 2017 If the character had just an ordinary Force Wall Power without Variable Advantage on it, could he throw three instances of his Force Wall Power and maintain them simultaneously? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Democracy Posted May 30, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2017 Dunno. :-) Same question as far as I see it... I am presuming, as before that the answer is yes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted May 30, 2017 Report Share Posted May 30, 2017 AFAIK there was never an official statement on this situation under Fourth Edition rules; but the FAQ for Fifth Edition does address a similar issue, and they're pretty close. Question: Since Force Wall is a Constant Power, could a character establish multiple concentric Force Walls to protect himself (or someone else)? Answer: Subject to the GM’s discretion, yes — though in some cases (like forming a Force Wall dome or bubble around someone) the Force Wall has to be big enough to keep establishing larger and larger walls. Since this could obviously unbalance the game pretty quickly, the GM should control or forbid it as he sees fit. If the power is constructed to prevent significant abuse (e.g., each Force Wall costs a lot of END, or requires a lot of Extra Time to create), it’s a lot less of a potential problem than if the character has a 0 END Force Wall he can create as a regular Action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Democracy Posted May 30, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2017 AFAIK there was never an official statement on this situation under Fourth Edition rules; but the FAQ for Fifth Edition does address a similar issue, and they're pretty close. Explains why I could not find a definitive rule in the BBB! Thanks LL. Will get a GM ruling. I think in this case it should be reasonably simplw. Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostDancer Posted May 31, 2017 Report Share Posted May 31, 2017 I'd rule this out if it was in a Multipower slot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Democracy Posted May 31, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2017 I'd rule this out if it was in a Multipower slot. But not if it was in another power framework? Care to expand on reasoning? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Netzilla Posted May 31, 2017 Report Share Posted May 31, 2017 Not GhostDancer, but the way I'd rule the Multipower would be that, in order to maintain the Force Wall(s), you would have to maintain the slot in the MP. If you shift points away from the slot, then the Force Wall(s) go away. Same would apply to a VPP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Democracy Posted May 31, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2017 Yeah, I would go with that. I can see an argument for a multipower to require two or more slots to have two or more Force Walls but was wondering where GhostDancer was coming from. Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Democracy Posted June 6, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2017 I just want to say that there is nothing like going back to 4th to really appreciate 6th. I did the vast majority of my HERO gaming using 4th edition and it makes me appreciate all the things that have been added since then. It really does feel more flimsy. I have gone back and played 3rd edition D&D and 2nd edition Runequest and appreciated those iterations of the systems, in some cases superior to later editions. That has not been the case with 4th edition HERO. I love the fact I am looking through the same pages I remember but then get frustrated by the lack of the new stuff and even the convolutedness of figured characteristics (which I remember enjoying playing around with). Kudos to the HERO team for improving the choice available for making characters. Conversely I better understand what a barrier to the new person 6th edition is - there is so much more there than there was in 4th edition. Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Walsh Posted June 6, 2017 Report Share Posted June 6, 2017 That's great! I enjoy trying to understand each edition of the long-lived games, seeing where their designers were coming from, trying to figure out why certain decisions were made, etc. In the spirit of the recent thread on 6e stuff for prior editions, can you give some examples of things added in 6e (other than getting rid of figured characteristics) that make the game feel less flimsy to you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Democracy Posted June 6, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2017 I dont think it is particularly in the addition of a particular power - I think that the core power list is pretty much the same but the surrounding back-up on use etc is important in being able to better model things. Obviously Damage Negation is a big addition - being able to model defences that are effective against a particular special effect rather than a particular game mechanic hugely changes the design principles. The move away from figured characteristics is very liberating in how you build things - in two characters I HAD to buy increased CON as it would be criminal to throw away points in buying up the other stuff. I look forward to a future edition which pushes the key effects of characteristics into the powers section and cuts characteristics down to simply those game stats like BODY, STUN, END and SPD. I think the big thing that is there in 6th is the vast array of modifiers and examples that explain how to toolkit your game, how to expand and modify the powers to better reflect things in the genre. Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Walsh Posted June 6, 2017 Report Share Posted June 6, 2017 Yeah, absolutely, those comprehensive listings for each Skill, Power, etc. are great references that really pull it all together! Like you said, they're sort of a double-edged blade, but they're great for one-stop-shopping when trying to figure out how to do something. It's just a small detail, but what I miss most when looking at 4e's listings is the header that gives all the essential info (cost, range, etc.). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Democracy Posted June 6, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2017 It's just a small detail, but what I miss most when looking at 4e's listings is the header that gives all the essential info (cost, range, etc.). It does not have cost on it, but the table on page 162 is pretty useful - I think cost would have been more useful than whether it was a standard, special etc power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Walsh Posted June 6, 2017 Report Share Posted June 6, 2017 It does not have cost on it, but the table on page 162 is pretty useful - I think cost would have been more useful than whether it was a standard, special etc power. True, the Powers List is much better than nothing! Of course, they do have the essentials at the end of each listing, but having all the pertinent info neatly organized at the top is so much better... But that's why we keep shelling out for new editions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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