Political Discussion Thread (With Rules)

[Cygnia]

 

[Lord Liaden]

Only option now is to vote for Biden and every Democrat possible at every level of government in November. Americans have to clean house with the ballet box, your only tool left.

[Old Man]

2 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

Only option now is to vote for Biden and every Democrat possible at every level of government in November. Americans have to clean house with the ballet box, your only tool left.

 

Bold of you to assume there will be a fair election.

[Cygnia]

1 hour ago, Old Man said:

 

Bold of you to assume there will be a fair election.

Tell me about it:  Ohio might not even allow Biden on the ballot.

[Lord Liaden]

2 hours ago, Old Man said:

 

Bold of you to assume there will be a fair election.

 

Not making that assumption, but overwhelming numbers will be much harder to dispute. But tell me what the alternative is. Cynicism won't help anything.

[unclevlad]

4 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

Only option now is to vote for Biden and every Democrat possible at every level of government in November. Americans have to clean house with the ballet box, your only tool left.

 

The need for that became painfully obvious when the Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade...which was enabled by how Senate Republicans shanghaied the approval process.

 

The last 4 years, admittedly, have shown that the infestation runs much deeper than just Congress, and is spread far more broadly than just DC.

 

An indirect thought here.  I get very few garbage phone calls...spam blocking generally works well.  That said, 4 have gotten through to my phone this week.  2 from Washington state, one from Texas, one from NM.  I didn't answer any of them, so I don't know if they're spam, phishing, or political...but with the conventions looming now, and political season likely heating up...I wonder if those *#$@#$ political calls are going to start up again.  Anyone getting more of em recently?

 

EDIT:  I'll tack this on.  From NYT in my inbox, a notification about an interactive article...the location of every fatal shooting incident from 20-23.  Searchable by address.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/05/14/us/gun-homicides-data.html?unlocked_article_code=1.uU0.hPhR.XDOnSLf_qJyY&smid=url-share

 

The address view in itself is very tightly zoomed...only a quarter mile.  But it gives info about the town...and lets you click to a zoomed-out level.

 

There were 37 fatal shootings in Las Cruces and nearby in those 4 years.

 

37.  I am *stunned*.  The area's had a high property crime rate for some time...but violent crime, not so much.  That no longer holds.  OK...it looks like it's about the national average...which is sad enough in its own right...but is sharply up.  The area map has a Change tab...it indicated 23 shootings for the 96-99 period, so we're talking a 50-60% increase.

 

 

[Old Man]

45 minutes ago, Lord Liaden said:

 

Not making that assumption, but overwhelming numbers will be much harder to dispute. But tell me what the alternative is. Cynicism won't help anything.

 

The least bad alternative would be to actually shut down the election subversion attempts before the election.  Granted, this would likely require the removal of at least two Supreme Court "justices" and the reinstatement of the 14th Amendment and the VRA, but that's more likely with a cynical view than starry-eyed innocence.

[Iuz the Evil]

It’s always a tiny bit surreal to me to see the conversation on threads between the most progressive board I frequent (this one) and the most conservative board I frequent (the Main Board for Rivals) look identical, down to the issues (candidate removed from ballot) and meta concern (free and fair elections). I could remove the candidate names and States in question, and you would not be able to distinguish the board of origin. It’s the same argument, same narrative, etc. There are so many common concerns, I wish there was more common ground.

 

I’ll accept the outcome, myself, whether I approve of it or not. The last election investigation demonstrated overwhelmingly to me (at least) that although there are issues that may arise we overall have integrity in the process. I suppose it’s a reflection of our current disenchantment with the many, many narrow margins of victory and significant acrimony towards those of our countrymen on “the other side”. I understand people get really passionate about their political opinions.

 

Whether the majority of individual voters or the electoral college process itself results in an outcome I consider favorable is another matter. I’ll be sweating that I’m sure, given the national divide and my preferences on the outcome and even the implications for my job and day to day operations. That said: those are the rules in play, and the candidates theoretically understand that going in. Just show up and vote, because really that’s the only power we have in this, which may not totally inappropriate in this democratic experiment.

 

 Have a happy Memorial Day weekend.

[Pattern Ghost]

10 hours ago, unclevlad said:

OK...it looks like it's about the national average

 

It's significantly higher, actually. The national rate is around 6%, Las Cruces around 9%, half again the national.

 

I think the big question is why? Seattle has seen a similar increase, despite the booming economy. 

 

We know economics are a large driver crime. Crime tends to go down when the economy is good, and up when it's bad.  It's apparent that our reportedly booming economy isn't really benefiting everyone equally, and this is another symptom. When I pay nearly $5/gallon for gas, and three bags of groceries ring up to nearly $100, and the "budget" vehicles I'm shopping for have new prices of $25-35k and are considered bargains* . . . I'm lead to believe there's room for improvement.

 

There's certainly a lot more to this, but the economy is what has me grumpy today. I'm getting a bit tired to hear how great things are going with all this inflation giving our household drastically decreased spending power.

 

 

 

*I'll be driving my 2015 Corolla until the wheels fall off, even if I can get 20 mpg better in a hybrid. If anyone has a Corolla Hybrid, PM and let me know if it's reliable and as good on gas as advertised. 😃

[Ternaugh]

RNC "fan mail" received a few days ago. The materials inside are as you would expect, with lots of use of "Patriot" anc "Crooked Joe". There's a "Pledge" form asking for money, and I'm tempted to send it back with a note in black Sharpie that I gave my donation to the Biden Campaign, as the RNC don't seem to want any "RINOs" in their party.

[Lord Liaden]

6 hours ago, Pattern Ghost said:

 

It's significantly higher, actually. The national rate is around 6%, Las Cruces around 9%, half again the national.

 

I think the big question is why? Seattle has seen a similar increase, despite the booming economy. 

 

We know economics are a large driver crime. Crime tends to go down when the economy is good, and up when it's bad.  It's apparent that our reportedly booming economy isn't really benefiting everyone equally, and this is another symptom. When I pay nearly $5/gallon for gas, and three bags of groceries ring up to nearly $100, and the "budget" vehicles I'm shopping for have new prices of $25-35k and are considered bargains* . . . I'm lead to believe there's room for improvement.

 

There's certainly a lot more to this, but the economy is what has me grumpy today. I'm getting a bit tired to hear how great things are going with all this inflation giving our household drastically decreased spending power.

 

 

 

*I'll be driving my 2015 Corolla until the wheels fall off, even if I can get 20 mpg better in a hybrid. If anyone has a Corolla Hybrid, PM and let me know if it's reliable and as good on gas as advertised. 😃

 

I have a suspicion that it might be contributed to by insecurity and stress over your political situation, particularly as you get closer to election day.

[Cygnia]

 

[Pattern Ghost]

3 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

I have a suspicion that it might be contributed to by insecurity and stress over your political situation, particularly as you get closer to election day.

 

I'd say that's a bit of a leap. I don't think politically motivated violence is enough to move the dial much for murder, specifically. The good news, is that murder is slightly down overall.

[Lord Liaden]

Not motivated. Contributed to. Stressors provoke extreme emotions and erode judgement and restraint, very often not directed at the source of the stress. Your media reflect and frequently fuel societal trepidation about America's future, and that's like drying a tinderbox. This thread is one testament to how that stress has degraded optimism and faith in your country, and the sense of fellowship with many of your fellow citizens. And many people are far more easily triggered than those here.

[Cygnia]

Libertarian convention devolves into fighting, obscenities on eve of Trump’s visit

Quote

Donald Trump won’t be speaking to his usual self-selected crowd of adoring red-hatted MAGA fans when he addresses the Libertarian National Convention on Saturday.

As delegates gathered at the Washington Hilton on the eve of his speech, the party’s decision to host the former president, which had split the organization, erupted Friday into open revolt. Fuming delegates at the convention said they plan to protest Trump’s speech, and one group sought unsuccessfully to remove the former president along with Robert F. Kennedy Jr., from the agenda — a move that resulted in thrown punches and obscenities between supporters and opponents of the move.

“I would like to propose that we go tell Donald Trump to go f--- himself!” Kaelan Dreyer, a Libertarian from New Mexico, yelled into a microphone, winning cheers from the crowd. After shouting vulgarities at the convention’s chair and fending off punches, he was led out of the convention hall.

The raucous opening to the convention reflects the pockets of hostility that Trump faces as he appeals to the Libertarians to help him box out a growing, third-party threat from Kennedy’s independent presidential campaign.
…

 

[Lord Liaden]

I can't imagine how any fascist could think their agenda would sound good to libertarians.

 

 

Edited May 25 by Lord Liaden

[unclevlad]

1 hour ago, Lord Liaden said:

I can't imagine how any fascist could think their agenda would sound good to libertarians.

 

 

 

But that only begs the question, why the HECK did their convention organizers decide to invite him????

[Iuz the Evil]

58 minutes ago, unclevlad said:

 

But that only begs the question, why the HECK did their convention organizers decide to invite him????

For the media coverage which gives their political party far more attention that it would otherwise get. And to see if they can leverage any policy items they care about in his speech, which is very unlikely.

[unclevlad]

1 hour ago, Iuz the Evil said:

For the media coverage which gives their political party far more attention that it would otherwise get. And to see if they can leverage any policy items they care about in his speech, which is very unlikely.

 

We're all familiar with the aphorism, "there's no such thing as bad publicity."  

 

I've never bought it.

 

Cuz now they're looking ridiculous.  Of course, they're about to nominate RFK Jr.  Hard to look more ridiculous than that.

[Iuz the Evil]

8 minutes ago, unclevlad said:

 

We're all familiar with the aphorism, "there's no such thing as bad publicity."  

 

I've never bought it.

 

Cuz now they're looking ridiculous.  Of course, they're about to nominate RFK Jr.  Hard to look more ridiculous than that.

Oh for sure, it’s undignified and stupid, but I’m sure that’s what they were thinking when they made that Faustian bargain.

 

Edit: They may also have been hoping to peel off party members from the big two, given both have well publicized internal strife these days. But I think that’s too much credit.

Edited May 26 by Iuz the Evil

[GDShore]

Not a yank, Canadian, we have our own numbskulls up here. IT IS not enough to just vote, you need to get invoived, join a candidate, knock on doors, help distribute propaganda I mean election materials. AS a youth I did just that, became involved in helping a candidate win their with about 5000 of my age mates (was the best 30 days i ever spent) yah, unlike you souheners our elections generally run 30 t0 45 days, I shudder thinking about 6 months let alone multiple years. I have never regretted that 39 days, 36 actually. 

[assault]

5 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

I can't imagine how any fascist could think their agenda would sound good to libertarians.

 

 

 

Libertarianism is full of "freedom for some".

The alt-right and its neighbours contained lots of former libertarians.

Edited May 26 by assault

[Lord Liaden]

Then I guess they were libertarians the way MAGA were conservatives.

[Pattern Ghost]

12 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

Not motivated.

 

I see what you're saying, but I'd have to look at some numbers to see if there's any correlation. Unfortunately, we're apparently cursed to live in interesting times, so I'm not sure there's really any historical situation (in US politics) to look to see if there's a correlation. Specifically talking about murder rate, here. I certainly agree with you that the current political atmosphere likely contributes to violent crime. 

[Cygnia]

Oh, it gets worse/funnier...

 

Trump makes Secret Service confiscate rubber chickens at Libertarian convention

 

Quote

Trump had the Secret Service confiscate rubber chickens that were handed out by the RFK Jr. campaign at the Libertarian Convention.

Kennedy, who spoke earlier at the convention, handed out the squeaky rubber chickens, so that the crowd could heckle Trump for refusing to debate him.

Kate Sullivan of CNN posted that the Secret Service was confiscating the rubber chickens:

“Secret Service agents are confiscating the rubber chickens the pro-RFK Jr super PAC handed out to attendees to disrupt Trump’s speech tonight at the Libertarian convention.

“No lighters, no water bottles, no noisy chickens,” one agent yelled out to people in line.

Trump is afraid of being heckled, so he had the Secret Service ban the chickens under the pretense of them being a threat to Trump’s safety, and squeaky rubber fowl were confiscated.

 

Chaos at Trump event as crowd member yells that ex-president 'should have taken a bullet'
 

Quote

Donald Trump is in hostile territory on Saturday, as someone in the crowd yelled that the former president "should have taken a bullet" before the speech even began.

Trump is soon scheduled to come on stage at the Libertarian National Convention in Washington, D.C. Raw Story reported that Libertarian delegates have been booing Trump when his name was mentioned, and that there is a pending "emergency" meeting to potentially cancel the event.

As the night's program began, someone affiliated with the Libertarian Party began asking people to remain civil despite differences with the former president.

"None of us are great fans of Donald Trump," he began before getting off track. "We don't know if he has any capacity to learn, but we must give the benefit of the doubt in all cases."

The speaker outlined "major differences" with Trump, including Trump's Operation Warp Speed to fast track a COVID vaccine.

That's when someone in the crowd yelled that Trump "should have taken a bullet."

 

‘Swamp Creature!’: Trump Gets Shouted Down as He Begs for Libertarian Nomination

 

Quote

It was clear from the start that this year’s Libertarian convention would not be a staid affair.

Going into the weekend, the Washington Hilton was stocked with shrink-wrapped packs of Blood of Tyrants’ Liquid Freedom Energy Tea. More than one attendee appeared to be smoking indoors. The drinks were flowing and the crowd was chanting, booing, and hollering through speeches left and right. Punches even flew. And that was all before former President Donald Trump took the stage in front of hundreds on Saturday.

When that moment came, the former president was met with a sound he was not accustomed to: boos. They broke out as soon as he appeared, and never died down, marking one of the most negative receptions Trump has ever received.

“A lot of people ask why I came to speak at this Libertarian convention,” Trump said as he began his remarks. “And, you know, it’s an interesting question, isn’t it? But we’re gonna have a lot of fun.”

It soon became clear that Trump most certainly was not having fun. Try as he might to sell himself as an ally to Libertarians, the crowd was not buying it. Whenever the former president’s supporters began chanting, Libertarians shouted them down. When Trump talked about the government crushing citizens’ rights, an audience member screamed, “You crushed my rights!” When he accused President Joe Biden of enacting censorship and persecution, someone else cried, “So do you!” Shouts of “Swamp creature!” and “F--- you!” peppered his remarks.