Political Discussion Thread (With Rules)

[tkdguy]

1 hour ago, Old Man said:

"If conservatives become convinced that they can not win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. The will reject democracy."  --Conservative author David Frum

 

Sad but true. And they won't hide their contempt for anyone who disagrees with them, as per this Daily Kos article.

[Cygnia]

1 hour ago, Old Man said:

"If conservatives become convinced that they can not win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. The will reject democracy."  --Conservative author David Frum

https://news.yahoo.com/rick-santorum-gets-weird-very-073413619.html

 

Quote

Former Sen. Rick Santorum (R-Penn.) offered some strange takes in quick succession as it became clear that Tuesday’s election results would be bad for Republicans and conservative causes.

“You put very sexy things like abortion and marijuana on the ballot, and a lot of young people come out and vote,” he griped on Newsmax.

Both issues were on the ballot in Ohio. The state has tilted red, yet voters on Tuesday passed measures protecting reproductive rights and legalizing recreational cannabis for adult use.

Santorum ― who was fired as a CNN pundit in 2021 after wildly racist comments about Native Americans ― called the two issues “a secret sauce for disaster” for Republicans in the state.

Then, he went a step further.

“Thank goodness that most of the states in this country don’t allow you to put everything on the ballot because pure democracies are not the way to run a country,” he said.

 

[tkdguy]

Since we often post the negative stuff in this thread, here's something positive for a change:

 

President Biden Announces Historic Railroad Modernization

 

Speaking as someone who relies on the trains, I heartily approve!

[Lord Liaden]

4 hours ago, Cygnia said:

https://news.yahoo.com/rick-santorum-gets-weird-very-073413619.html

 

 

 

Because, to the way of thinking of this group, most Americans are too stupid to know what they really want, and what's good for them. They need their "betters" to decide that, to tell them what they really want. Of course Republicans have been gutting public education for decades, to try to make most Americans exactly that stupid.

 

I think this brief and witty clip encapsulates that view rather well (although in a much more civilized manner than Republicans can muster these days).

 

 

[tkdguy]

 

[DShomshak]

Yesterday's episode of "The Daily" reported on Donald Trump, Don Jr. and Eric Trump testifying in the NY fraud case. Reporter's takeaway: The prosecutors in Trump's criminal trials will try their darndest to get Trump himself on the stand. On trial for lying, he repeats the lies, under oath. Plus raving at the jusge, which for some reason judges do not take well to.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/08/podcasts/the-daily/trump-trial.html

 

As one recent op-ed put it, Trump finally faces people he can't bully, bribe, or bury in lawyers. And it's driving him crazy. (or revealing the crazy that was always there.) Don Jr, by comparison, merely displays the same blithe conviction that laws and facts are for other people.

 

Dean Shomshak

[MrWolf]

      

19 hours ago, tkdguy said:

Since we often post the negative stuff in this thread, here's something positive for a change:

 

President Biden Announces Historic Railroad Modernization

 

Speaking as someone who relies on the trains, I heartily approve!

 

The only thing i have to say is... a quote from a song... well maybe two songs...

 

"Come on ride the train, hey ride it" - quad city DJs, apparently

 

And from the KLF - "Last train to Trancentral" - 

 

"All aboard, all aboard, whoa
(Come on, boy, do you wanna ride?)
All aboard, all aboard, whoa"

 

I'm sure there are more train songs.  But these are what came to mind.

[unclevlad]

17 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

I think this brief and witty clip encapsulates that view rather well (although in a much more civilized manner than Republicans can muster these days).

 

Mmm...keeping the bar pretty low there, I'd say..........

 

Note, tho, that the clip has applicability on both sides.  

[DShomshak]

From my frontpage newsfeed. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised, given the sheer number of state legislators, that one would suggest flat-out ignoring initiative results they don't like. Direct democracy, boo! ...As long as it gives the wrong result. So, eyeroll.

 

Republican Pushes to Overturn Ohio Election Result (msn.com)

 

Dean Shomshak

[Lord Liaden]

20 minutes ago, DShomshak said:

From my frontpage newsfeed. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised, given the sheer number of state legislators, that one would suggest flat-out ignoring initiative results they don't like. Direct democracy, boo! ...As long as it gives the wrong result. So, eyeroll.

 

Republican Pushes to Overturn Ohio Election Result (msn.com)

 

Dean Shomshak

 

 A couple of quotations from that article stood out for me. North Dakota State Representative Brandon Prichard wrote that "Our political process which has been high jacked by progressives over the last 100 years is the reason to allow the murder of babies." So he literally wants to turn back history an entire century.

 

Marjorie Taylor Greene commented, "Producing ads that graphically show the truth of an abortion as a baby is being ripped apart or dies lying on a cold metal trey gasping for air after being ripped out of its mother's womb is the truth America needs to see versus the democrat's never ending ads lying to women that baby murder is their right." In other woods, Marge has never witnessed an abortion or talked to a doctor or any woman who has had one. Or she's lying through her teeth.

[Cancer]

1 hour ago, Lord Liaden said:

... Or she's lying through her teeth.

 

Q: How can you tell if a politician is lying?

 

Spoiler

A: Their lips are moving.

 

[csyphrett]

Farron Cousins said he was amazed that large media is not covering the fact that Trump admitted he committed fraud on the stand. The prosecutor asked him if he knew what the numbers did. He was like we moved them up and down as needed. it should be in the transcript if anyone here can get a copy.

CES 

[Old Man]

One, Trump has been criming for so long that he's completely normalized this behavior.  Remember when it was a big deal that he lied about the crowd size at his inauguration?  That's not even top 100 anymore.

 

Two, corporate media has a financial motive for keeping Trump in the political scene; by one account Washington Post revenue is down like 30% since Trump left office.

[Lord Liaden]

4 minutes ago, Old Man said:

Two, corporate media has a financial motive for keeping Trump in the political scene; by one account Washington Post revenue is down like 30% since Trump left office.

 

It's also possible that revenue is down because Donald Trump is so repetitive, the Post's coverage of him is boring their readers. Trump has had nothing new to say for three years: 2020 election was rigged, weaponized DOJ, perfect 'phone call, etc. etc.

[Doc Democracy]

5 hours ago, Cancer said:

 

Q: How can you tell if a politician is lying?

 

  Hide contents

A: Their lips are moving.

 

 

As someone who works in a democratic institute, I appreciate the humour, but have concerns that this is entirely the kind of thing that anti-democratic folk build upon.  If you get convinced that you can trust no-one, that there is no value in voting and that those who seek public office should be barred from it, then you open the door to populists like Trump, who tell folk that he is the ONLY one you can trust and we can all see where that gets you.

It is an insidious tendency and undermines both our democracy and our democratic institutions.  Once it is mainstream that you can believe nothing then there is a chance that you will believe anything.

 

I work with politicians every day and I can tell you that they are human beings like the rest of us, the vast majority of those that I meet have honest intentions to make things better, even if their version of better does not match with mine.  I do see their public presentation be skewed by party political stress and the fact the media constantly looks to highlight those that speak differently from their party and forcing the tendency not to deviate from the party line in public discourse.  Intheir work I see nuance and humanity, I wish everyone could have the same insight and engagement.

Doc

[Lord Liaden]

Next time someone tells you Joe Biden isn't mentally sharp, show them this.

 

 

[Cygnia]

Ugh...

Adobe is selling fake AI images of the war in Israel-Gaza

[tkdguy]

7 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

Next time someone tells you Joe Biden isn't mentally sharp, show them this.

 

 

 

Here's a longer take, along with other clips

 

 

[DShomshak]

Vide Doc Democrqacy's admonition, here's All Things Considered's recent interview with an Oregon Representative who seems like a very earnest public servant. His special interest is public transportation and making cities more walkable and bikeable. Naturally, I'd never heard of him before this, because loudmouth lunatics hog all the media attention. And the media usually let them.

 

Though Mr. Blumenauer has also decided not to seek reelection.

 

https://www.npr.org/2023/11/09/1211949662/an-exit-interview-with-democratic-rep-earl-blumenauer-of-oregon

 

Dean Shomshak

[Lord Liaden]

And he's a Democrat. I wish that wasn't such a cliche by now.

[Cancer]

On 11/10/2023 at 3:17 AM, Doc Democracy said:

 

As someone who works in a democratic institute, I appreciate the humour, but have concerns that this is entirely the kind of thing that anti-democratic folk build upon.  If you get convinced that you can trust no-one, that there is no value in voting and that those who seek public office should be barred from it, then you open the door to populists like Trump, who tell folk that he is the ONLY one you can trust and we can all see where that gets you.

It is an insidious tendency and undermines both our democracy and our democratic institutions.  Once it is mainstream that you can believe nothing then there is a chance that you will believe anything.

 

I work with politicians every day and I can tell you that they are human beings like the rest of us, the vast majority of those that I meet have honest intentions to make things better, even if their version of better does not match with mine.  I do see their public presentation be skewed by party political stress and the fact the media constantly looks to highlight those that speak differently from their party and forcing the tendency not to deviate from the party line in public discourse.  Intheir work I see nuance and humanity, I wish everyone could have the same insight and engagement.

Doc

 

In this era I heartily endorse what you say.  I was quoting a joke I read before I was old enough to vote, which puts it >~50 years in the past.

[Cygnia]

Behind the Curtain: Trump allies pre-screen loyalists for unprecedented power grab

[tkdguy]

 

[unclevlad]

I'll buy that the people of Arizona understand Kari Lake just fine...........

 

He's echoing my point.  Losing in the general elections will ultimately help...but to rein the MAGA wing in, IMO, it's necessary for them to lose in primaries.  Losing in the general...all they'll do is cry "stolen!" until they're blue in the face, and/or work harder to try to rig things their way.

 

And preferably...the losing candidates can't have smoking guns, like Boebert pretty much has, after the Denver theater incident.  (Story is, she's got a primary opponent gaining significant endorsements.)  I'd prefer a strong rejection based on nothing but the extreme positions, like shutting down the House just because they could.

[Lord Liaden]

2 hours ago, unclevlad said:

And preferably...the losing candidates can't have smoking guns, like Boebert pretty much has, after the Denver theater incident.  (Story is, she's got a primary opponent gaining significant endorsements.)  I'd prefer a strong rejection based on nothing but the extreme positions, like shutting down the House just because they could.

 

That would be ideal, but I'll accept getting rid of her by any lawful means. Without her seat in the House, no one is going to pay attention to her any more, at least not enough people for her to ever win public office again. The only thing MAGA hate more than liberals, is losers.