Political Discussion Thread (With Rules)

[DShomshak]

The Today Explained podcast just finished its 4-part series, "Blame Capitalism," on its history as an economic system and ideology, and current disappointments and challenges. Here they are from Google podcasts. Possibly of interest, though the whole series is nearly 2 hours long.

 

"Souring on the System": Capitalism has entered its villain era. In a new series running Fridays this month, we look at how Americans came to blame it for just about everything.

https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9yc3MuYXJ0MTkuY29tL3RvZGF5LWV4cGxhaW5lZA/episode/YTgyNTg1ODYtMzM5Zi0xMWVkLWE1NTAtYWZmYzY4NGIxN2Jm?sa=X&ved=0CAUQkfYCahcKEwiw1KTvwNWBAxUAAAAAHQAAAAAQAQ

 

"Profit Over Everything": Economist Milton Friedman published an essay in 1970 arguing that the job of a corporation was solely to make money for its shareholders. General Electric CEO Jack Welch pushed that idea about as far as it would go — and broke capitalism.

https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9yc3MuYXJ0MTkuY29tL3RvZGF5LWV4cGxhaW5lZA/episode/YTgzOWM1NzgtMzM5Zi0xMWVkLWE1NTAtMzM2ZDgyOTdhNWNj?sa=X&ved=0CAUQkfYCahcKEwjIp5PawdWBAxUAAAAAHQAAAAAQAQ

 

"The 99%": Two wildly different political movements — Occupy Wall Street and the Tea Party — emerged from the Great Recession. They forever changed the way Americans think about capitalism and democracy.

https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9yc3MuYXJ0MTkuY29tL3RvZGF5LWV4cGxhaW5lZA/episode/YTg1MDRiZjQtMzM5Zi0xMWVkLWE1NTAtYTc2NjkyNmI5OGJl?sa=X&ved=0CAUQkfYCahcKEwjIp5PawdWBAxUAAAAAHQAAAAAQAQ

 

"Degrowing Pains": Capitalism isn’t natural, was never inevitable, and endless growth is killing Earth. The final episode of “Blame Capitalism” examines the degrowth movement, whose proponents call to end capitalism as we know it.

https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9yc3MuYXJ0MTkuY29tL3RvZGF5LWV4cGxhaW5lZA/episode/YTg2NmRmY2MtMzM5Zi0xMWVkLWE1NTAtOTcyOTcwMzM4ZjQ4?sa=X&ved=0CAUQkfYCahcKEwjIp5PawdWBAxUAAAAAHQAAAAAQAQ

 

Dean Shomshak

[Cancer]

On 9/29/2023 at 11:06 PM, DShomshak said:

All Things Considered had tributes for Sen. Feinstein, including this:

 

https://www-cf.npr.org/2023/09/29/1202745293/former-rep-jane-harman-on-sen-dianne-feinsteins-trailblazing-legacy

 

Best moment, I think, is the clip of her during the debates leading up to the assault weapons ban of 1994. A senator from Idaho apparently thought the li'l woman from California couldn't really understand guns the way a big strong man from Idaho could, and...

 

...She proceeds to rip him a new one without raising her voice. A moment when the Senate truly was a great debating body.

 

Dean Shomshak

 

at Larry Craig being ripped a new one, in the context of the homosexual encounter in an airport that ended his sad, hypocritical career in elected office.

[tkdguy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GlF48Zpdc4

[BoloOfEarth]

Haley says Trump campaign sent her birdcage after he called her ‘birdbrain’ | The Hill

 

She should really respond with something to the effect of:  "I'm surprised that Trump would be doing anything involving cages, given his many current legal woes..."

[unclevlad]

Oh, Nikki, what a pity, you don't understand...........

 

 

It's Trump being Trump.  Challenge him, get mocked and attacked.  

 

I like Bolo's line, but I thin the better response is to ignore it altogether...and should the Trump campaign say something, say something like "oh yeah, we got something like that from him.  We gave it to a zoo and forgot all about it."

[tkdguy]

https://www.meidastouch.com/news/official-republican-account-vote-biden-if-you-care-about-democracy

[Lord Liaden]

What the recent Congressional vote on interim government funding really says about Trump's influence with the GOP (short video):

 

 

One of Beau's lines is meme-worthy: "The Republican Party, they're the party of family values. Sure, if you're talking about the Sopranos."

[unclevlad]

That didn't take long.

 

Matt Gaetz has just initiated a motion to vacate, which is the move to oust McCarthy as Speaker.  Yeah, he doesn't even need a second.  IIRC, it's also privileged, so I believe it therefore takes precedence over all normal activities.

[Old Man]

Wait let me make some popcorn

[unclevlad]

1 minute ago, Old Man said:

Wait let me make some popcorn

 

 

Got enough for 3 days?  IIRC, that's how long it took to select the Speaker back in January.  

And the NYT story also has Gaetz saying he'll bring the motion multiple times even if he loses.

 

KInda related...in Georgia, a state senator who tried to get, of all things, a special session invoked to either impeach or defund the DA prosecuting Trump...and called his colleagues RINOs when no one supported him...got censured.  But...

 

https://apnews.com/article/colton-moore-suspended-georgia-senate-republicans-trump-25c13126b16a6e3699af1f59f2558042

 

...it sounds like that'll hardly affect him....

[Ternaugh]

Enough popcorn?

 

 

[DShomshak]

4 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

What the recent Congressional vote on interim government funding really says about Trump's influence with the GOP (short video):

 

 

One of Beau's lines is meme-worthy: "The Republican Party, they're the party of family values. Sure, if you're talking about the Sopranos."

In the same vein, yesterday Beau pointed out that whaddaya know, not only can Democrats stand firm, a majority of Republicans were willing to vote alongside them. Gosh, maybe that majority is getting as tired of the Berserker Caucus (as The Economist calls them) as everyone else is. As a result, Gaetz and his fellow maniacs are weaker, and McCarthy is stronger by comparison.

 

I can only hope that at least some Republicans continue down this path to basic sanity in government.

 

Deanb Shomshak

[unclevlad]

The scary part is, I suspect they could advance their principle agenda items faster and better.  If "Trump fatigue" is real, as it well may be, I don't think it's Trumpism per se.  OR, not entirely.  The big negative is the blind, obstinate refusal to move on from the election.  

 

That said, Trump's reckless invective has to be a factor in the serious growth in both the threats of, and incidents of, violence.  This isn't limited to just the election;  it's just an extension of what appears to be the core Trump personality.  I think it's gotten more unhinged...but it wasn't exactly under control before.  But, if it's viewed that he's even more unhinged...well, that'll also explain loss of support...a recognition that he's simply not stable enough to govern.

[Lord Liaden]

There are a number of things that Trump was never "enough" of to govern. The people unwilling or unable to see those things in him before, will not recognize his decline now.

 

I'm strongly inclined to believe that there aren't many Americans left who have not yet made their minds up about Trump. His core supporters will not abandon him whatever he says or does. Most everyone else need no more evidence to convince them of who he really is.

[Cygnia]

What was Elon Musk’s strategy for Twitter?

Quote

On the day that public records revealed that Elon Musk had become Twitter’s biggest shareholder, an unknown sender texted the billionaire and recommended an article imploring him to acquire the social network outright.

Musk’s purchase of Twitter, the 3,000-word anonymous article said, would amount to a “declaration of war against the Globalist American Empire.” The sender of the texts was offering Musk, the Tesla and SpaceX CEO, a playbook for the takeover and transformation of Twitter. As the anniversary of Musk's purchase approaches, the identity of the sender remains unknown.


The three texts were sent on April 4, 2022. In the nearly 18 months since then, many of the decisions Musk made after he bought Twitter appear to have closely followed that road map, up to and including his ongoing attacks against the Anti-Defamation League, a nonprofit organization founded by Jewish Americans to counter discrimination.

The text messages described a series of actions Musk should take after he gained full control of the social media platform: “Step 1: Blame the platform for its users; Step 2: Coordinated pressure campaign; Step 3: Exodus of the Bluechecks; Step 4: Deplatforming.”

 

[Cygnia]

To the surprise of no one...

 

FBI interviewed individuals who accuse Amy Coney Barrett faith group of abuse

[unclevlad]

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/03/nyregion/trump-gag-order-fraud-trial.html?unlocked_article_code=MpFD5NBM3NM-pQvZJoWMliH8dHDCUIfaPLSuwH2mhZMkgrSkxhRwQ08SbGoZdO8bh7HvzgEhVgR9uTgtPdB1JSSYuT454ooj3P3OoIDU26i2aQsmfmdva8YDtAsVe0vW4mTHtgA-QN68QiaJpMC3Y3T22Z6bTea69qu60WcNdBkHeJH1HwQtOyaOkJhumofOthktPKSO0vp_aPEprRQveMUcLP_376HLpjPEyUqRTqoxmFX6syD6iwmKhR0ilLwcme0MEJM4xTAuv7kurnlDP8V3rhmY9qjNepikZDU5PlvEhIO4lvF_X55uGA25bzzliEURM48swFjkG5F_Nc07LaeY7fd4F9w&smid=url-share

 

Trump rips the court *clerk* with a typical Trumpian wild accusation, and calls for the case to be dismissed???

 

The judge is not amused.  

 

I doubt Trump can go long without testing the judge, posting some other drivel.  

[unclevlad]

And....the other shoe just dropped.

 

And it was straight from Monty Python...a size 5000 EEEEEEEEEE.

 

McCarthy voted OUT as Speaker.  Mildly interesting?  Only 8 Republicans voted in favor...Andy Biggs, Ken Buck, Tim Burchett, Eli Crane, Matt Gaetz, Bob Good, Nancy Mace and Matt Rosendale.

 

So now they name a temporary speaker, and we go right back to the stupid circus we had in January.  

[Lord Liaden]

2 hours ago, unclevlad said:

And....the other shoe just dropped.

 

And it was straight from Monty Python...a size 5000 EEEEEEEEEE.

 

McCarthy voted OUT as Speaker.  Mildly interesting?  Only 8 Republicans voted in favor...Andy Biggs, Ken Buck, Tim Burchett, Eli Crane, Matt Gaetz, Bob Good, Nancy Mace and Matt Rosendale.

 

So now they name a temporary speaker, and we go right back to the stupid circus we had in January.  

 

Very interesting development. A couple of thoughts come to my mind:

 

The Democrats could have saved Kevin McCarthy's Speakership, and had him in their debt, compelling him to follow more of their agenda. I wonder, do they now think they can get enough Republicans to back installing Hakeem Jeffries as Speaker?

 

Also, the MAGA faction's members of the House who most vociferously castigated McCarthy for voting with Democrats... just voted with Democrats to oust McCarthy.

[unclevlad]

If the Democrats voted to back McCarthy, I really doubt it would've helped for long.  McCarthy might've stayed as Speaker, but at that point, probably more, perhaps MANY more, members of his own caucus would become fractious.

 

Remember:  90 Republicans voted against the continuing resolution.  There's no real chance, IMO, that the Democrats could get meaningful concessions.

 

One story noted that Jeffries made the point this has nothing to do with the Democrats, this is purely an internal Republican matter.  And we go back to the point...if Dems vote for someone, how long would it be before large swathes of Republicans reject him/her?  IMO, he's protecting his caucus.  If the enemy wants to fight among themselves...LET THEM.  

 

No Republican will vote for any Democrat, IMO.  They're gonna have to somehow settle on a candidate...which won't be McCarthy.  About a half hour ago apparently, he said he won't run again.  So I *definitely* don't help any Republican become Speaker...at least for a while.  Let the country see that the Republicans have no leadership.

[DShomshak]

Given the Pubs' slender majority, Dems might have been able top preserve McCarthy as Speaker so long as a fgew Pubs loathed the Freedom Caucus more than they loathe Dems. Not impossible, IMO, given how personally abrasive (as well as politically deranged) Gaetz et al are. At least minimal legislative functions might have been done.

 

While it's rather horrible to say so, I also think McCarthy protected Biden and Harris from assassination. The same sort of lunatics who are not willing to accept that Biden was legitimately elected also, I hear, loathe McCarthy. While some of them might try putting an R in the White House by murder, they wouldn't do it to put *him* in the White House.

 

As much as Dems dislike McCarthy -- the ATC report said none of them trust him -- removing him does open the possibility of someone even worse taking the job. And whatever is gained politically by letting the Pubs flail in chaos, there could also be gains from voters seeing an R Speaker dependent on D representatives for his office. I suspect some Dem voters would be heartened by seeing the party exercise raw political power more often.

 

Dean Shomshak

[unclevlad]

What you suggest is possible, but IMO not likely now.  I agree that Gaetz follows the Trumpist playbook of vicious counter-attack and extreme verbal denigration...but what would happen in the '24 Republican *primaries* for anyone viewed as "collaborating" with the Dems?  That could get REALLY ugly.

[Ranxerox]

14 hours ago, unclevlad said:

 

One story noted that Jeffries made the point this has nothing to do with the Democrats, this is purely an internal Republican matter.  And we go back to the point...if Dems vote for someone, how long would it be before large swathes of Republicans reject him/her?  IMO, he's protecting his caucus.  If the enemy wants to fight among themselves...LET THEM.  

 

 

Not a single Democrats needed to vote for McCarthy.  All that needed to happen is for a dozen Democrats to say that that the Republicans needed to sort out their own messes and refrain from voting.

 

The decisions to go all in for getting rid of McCarthy may bite them and the rest of us in the butt in 43 days, when the continuing resolution expires, and there is no one in the speaker's chair to negotiate with and the extreme right wing feels more empowered than ever.

Edited October 4, 2023 by Ranxerox

[Old Man]

5 hours ago, DShomshak said:

s much as Dems dislike McCarthy -- the ATC report said none of them trust him -- removing him does open the possibility of someone even worse taking the job. And whatever is gained politically by letting the Pubs flail in chaos, there could also be gains from voters seeing an R Speaker dependent on D representatives for his office. I suspect some Dem voters would be heartened by seeing the party exercise raw political power more often.

 

"None of them trust him" because he reneged on his promises to both the Democrats and the GOP lunatic wing.  And he violently and publicly refused to negotiate with the Dems to gain their support to maintain his speakership.

 

Amusingly, the GOP removed McCarthy with absolutely no plan as to what to do next.  All business in the House is on hold until a new Speaker is elected.

[Lord Liaden]

The GOP didn't remove McCarthy. The Democrats plus the MAGA lunatic Republicans removed McCarthy, at the insistence of the latter. For Matt Gaetz and that circle, it's all about getting media exposure and provoking outrage in their base. They've never had a plan as to what to do next, because they don't care about doing anything else.