Political Discussion Thread (With Rules)

[Iuz the Evil]

https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/09/politics/partisan-hostility-poll/index.html
 

Interesting and unsurprising.

[Starlord]

[unclevlad]

1 hour ago, Iuz the Evil said:

https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/09/politics/partisan-hostility-poll/index.html
 

Interesting and unsurprising.

 

I'd be interested to see the trends over time, altho it's possible they're not directly comparable.  The question, for example 

 

Quote

Among the areas of perceived difference: a 57% majority say that the Democratic Party can be described as “respectful and tolerant of different types of people,” while just 38% say the same of the GOP; the GOP is also more likely to be seen as too frequently making excuses for members with hateful views (61% vs. 51%). There are smaller divides on characteristics such as governing in an honest and ethical way – just 43% think this applies well to the Democrats, and just 37% to the Republicans.

 

Bold mine.  This has, I think, grown greatly due to Trumpism.  

[Iuz the Evil]

I thought this was interesting:

 

“Overall, 61% of Americans hold an unfavorable view of the Republican Party, and 57% have a negative view of the Democratic Party. For the most part, that doesn't translate into a pox-on-both your-houses mentality: roughly 72% of Americans view at least one of the parties favorably. But the share who dislike both, 27%, is the highest it's been in Pew's data reaching back to 1994 -- when just 6% felt that way.”

[Old Man]

6 hours ago, TrickstaPriest said:

There's genuine concern that this isn't justified... or poorly 'marketed'.  The Dem party has been nothing if not terrible at messaging sometimes.

 

So all I can do is wait and see.

The problem is that there just aren’t that many GOP representative seats that are up for re-election this November. It’s still mathematically possible for the Democrats to retain control of the House, but last I checked it was about an 8- on 3d6. 

[Tom]

8- isn’t particularly impossible. 
 

And I’ve seen at least two instances where only a “3” would do the trick - and did…

 

I wouldn’t mind seeing “an act of dice” come November. I’m just not going to hold my breath. 

[Joe Walsh]

18 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

 

I read a YouTube comment months back, to the effect that contemporary right-wing philosophy is that law protects, but does not bind them, while it binds, but does not protect everyone else.

 

And that's why cries of hypocrisy have no effect.

[Dr. MID-Nite]

11 hours ago, GM Joe said:

 

And that's why cries of hypocrisy have no effect.

 

Reactionary philosophy...nobody has the right to tell me what to do, but I have the right to tell you what to do. It explains a lot.

[DShomshak]

So, who's even scarier than Trump's grievance-ridden, lumpen cultists? The people who are already thinking far beyond him, to radical restructuring of American society. Say hello to the New Right, who intend to be your future masters.

 

https://www.stitcher.com/show/today-explained/episode/meet-the-new-right-205670888

 

(Endure the ads. It's worth it.)

 

Dean Shomshak

[wcw43921]

Quite possibly the most justified F-Bomb this year

[Old Man]

On 8/9/2022 at 7:13 AM, Ternaugh said:

So, the National Archives picked up 15 boxes of documents taken from the White House from Mar-A-Lago in January. If this is really about those documents, does that mean that the National Archives didn't get all of them in January?  https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/02/07/trump-records-mar-a-lago/

 

It seems clear that no, the Archives did not get all the documents in January.  Logically there were only three possible reasons for Trump to be holding onto classified information: obstruction of justice, blackmail, or sale.  Now that we know the classified information included information on nuclear weapons, that would seem to rule out the first two explanations.

 

Note that mishandling classified information was upgraded to a felony in 2018 in a bill signed by the occupant of the Oval Office at the time, raising the maximum penalty to five years.  The penalty for selling classified information to foreign agents is up to ten years plus forfeiture of any property used to facilitate the transfer.

[Pattern Ghost]

1 hour ago, Old Man said:

Now that we know the classified information included information on nuclear weapons, that would seem to rule out the first two explanations.

 

I'm a little conflicted. On the one hand, it would be horrible if he sold that kind of information to anyone. On the other, if convicted, he could potentially go visit the Rosenbergs. 

[Cygnia]

Holy [bleep]...

 

Author Salman Rushdie attacked on lecture stage in New York

[csyphrett]

12 minutes ago, Cygnia said:

Holy [bleep]...

 

Author Salman Rushdie attacked on lecture stage in New York

Either it was a right wing nut, a muslim, or someone wanting the three million dollars on his head. I noticed the article didn't identify the attacker. I will put in for right wing nut

CES

[death tribble]

The fact that they took Rushdie away by helicopter is encouraging as it means there is hope for him.

[DShomshak]

All Things Considered reported that one of Trump's lawyers was present at all times during the Mar-a-Lago "raid," which would seem to make it difficult for the FBI agents to plant evidence or otherwise engage in hinky behavior.

 

If I understood the report correctly, they also said Trump himself could unseal the warrant at will. He (or at least his lawyers) had to receive a copy. It seems plausible that if anything in the warrant was the least bit unreasonable or irregular, his lawyers would have him prove it by publishing it right away. He didn't. I see that in public, Trump urges the unsealing of the warrant -- but we shall see what he has his lawyers do in private.

 

Dean Shomshak

[Old Man]

1 hour ago, DShomshak said:

All Things Considered reported that one of Trump's lawyers was present at all times during the Mar-a-Lago "raid," which would seem to make it difficult for the FBI agents to plant evidence or otherwise engage in hinky behavior.

 

Trump and his family also observed the entire search via surveillance camera.

 

1 hour ago, DShomshak said:

 

If I understood the report correctly, they also said Trump himself could unseal the warrant at will. He (or at least his lawyers) had to receive a copy. It seems plausible that if anything in the warrant was the least bit unreasonable or irregular, his lawyers would have him prove it by publishing it right away. He didn't. I see that in public, Trump urges the unsealing of the warrant -- but we shall see what he has his lawyers do in private.

 

Yes, Trump loudly announced that he would not fight the unsealing of the warrant, but pointedly did not release his copy.

 

Politico has early details on the nature of the classified documents and the investigations into Trump:

 

Quote

 

Trump possessed documents including a handwritten note; documents marked with “TS/SCI,” which indicate one of the highest levels of government classification; and another item labeled “Info re: President of France.”

 

The warrant shows federal law enforcement was investigating Trump for removal or destruction of records, obstruction of an investigation, and violating the Espionage Act.

 

 

Russian media is openly calling for Trump to "visit" Moscow where the FSB can protect him from all this.

 

edit: Just looked it up, it appears the maximum penalties for espionage are life imprisonment or the death penalty.

[Dr.Device]

I'd be satisfied with 10 years in prison under 18 USC 793, plus forfeiture of Mar a Lago and any other properties where he ever stored those documents, or assets he might have used to transport them,  under 21 USC 853, as referred to by 18 USC 793.

[Lord Liaden]

The documents labeled TS/SCI stand for "Top Secret/Sensitive Compartmented Information."  These documents are so sensitive they can only be viewed in special high-security rooms in high-security installations. This is info that would seriously jeopardize the security of the United States. The kind that, if someone took them without elaborate authorization, stored them in an unsecured location, and then refused to return them, would earn almost anyone a covert interment in an unmarked grave.

 

Trump kept some of them in a storage room by his resort's pool.

[MrWolf]

Came here to mention this.  TS/SCI is a really really big deal.  This is not good news for anyone.  It's likely to prompt quite a lot of government action in general.  BTW if any of you want a good news source, Beau of the Fifth Column on YouTube is pretty fantastic.  He's the one who mentioned this for me to see it.

[Cygnia]

7 hours ago, csyphrett said:

Either it was a right wing nut, a muslim, or someone wanting the three million dollars on his head. I noticed the article didn't identify the attacker. I will put in for right wing nut

CES

Suspect named in Salman Rushdie attack, 'Satanic Verses' author in surgery for stab wounds

[Lord Liaden]

I guess old fatwas never die...

[Old Man]

1 hour ago, MrWolf said:

Came here to mention this.  TS/SCI is a really really big deal.  This is not good news for anyone.  It's likely to prompt quite a lot of government action in general.  BTW if any of you want a good news source, Beau of the Fifth Column on YouTube is pretty fantastic.  He's the one who mentioned this for me to see it.

Beau is so irritating I hope never to see or hear him again. He’s better than Fox and Facebook, though admittedly that’s a low bar to clear. 
 

On an unrelated note, nuclear information is classified under the Atomic Energy Act and can only be declassified by the Atomic Energy Commission. Just to take away one possible excuse that might be used. 

[unclevlad]

1 hour ago, MrWolf said:

Came here to mention this.  TS/SCI is a really really big deal.  This is not good news for anyone.  It's likely to prompt quite a lot of government action in general.  BTW if any of you want a good news source, Beau of the Fifth Column on YouTube is pretty fantastic.  He's the one who mentioned this for me to see it.

 

IIRC, SCI isn't over and above TS.  MOST TS is actually SCI...the C means compartmented, and anything that's TS is almost certain to need that as well.  You might have a TS for, say, nuclear information, but no need to know the control codes used by targeting radars in missile systems.  They're totally unrelated.  

Secret clearances are...somewhat common.  Not too hard to get.  Had one for quite some time.  OTOH, TS is RARE.  The investigation for a TS is very intrusive.  Handling even Secret documents was a serious matter.  Leaving out TS in improper circumstances...yeah, that's really, really bad.

[Starlord]

Maintained the ICBM training manuals at Minot AFB for 2 years so I had a TS clearance for 3 years.  They could only be viewed in certain rooms and COULD NOT be removed from said rooms no matter what.  Detailed logs were kept for anyone who had access to them including dates and times when they were accessed.