NuSoardGraphite Posted July 11, 2015 Report Share Posted July 11, 2015 Hey! What's wrong with FATE? I know. I know. They are sort of on the opposite ends of the Crunchy scale. Basically just pulling stuff out of your butt. But from what I hear, at least the game does it elegantly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NuSoardGraphite Posted July 11, 2015 Report Share Posted July 11, 2015 double post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altair Posted July 11, 2015 Report Share Posted July 11, 2015 Basically just pulling stuff out of your butt. But from what I hear, at least the game does it elegantly. Eh, not really. The system - while highly dynamic - is pretty solid, with consistent mechanics. Now, it's a lot more abstract than something like Hero, but that's by design. I really like Fate! I also really like Hero! They are very different ways to approach similar questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NuSoardGraphite Posted July 12, 2015 Report Share Posted July 12, 2015 Eh, not really. The system - while highly dynamic - is pretty solid, with consistent mechanics. Now, it's a lot more abstract than something like Hero, but that's by design. I really like Fate! I also really like Hero! They are very different ways to approach similar questions. Oh dont get me wrong. Theres an artform to pulling stuff outta your butt. And I have one of the FATE rulesbooks. There is definitely structure to it. Just VERY little compared to HERO or GURPS, the previous universal/generic goto's... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altair Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 Word. I like that there's a wide variety of what I consider to be really good universal gaming systems now. My initial interest in Hero was in an attempt to get something more granular and better suited to simulation that I was pleased with. GURPS just never really worked for me, so I'm thrilled to pieces with Hero now that I'm getting an understanding of it. I love that Hero can provide experiences like that. In my experience, the system really does model a very wide array of characters, and its assumptions about the world line up very well with what I like in games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Long Posted July 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 For those who are interested, the second part of the overall blog post, written by me, is now available: https://adeptpress.wordpress.com/2015/07/16/90s-hero-guest-post/#more-2470 tl;dr version -- Steve liked Ninja Hero so much that it had a significant influence on his view of the HERO System, his approach to writing books for it, and ultimately his development of the rules as a whole. He also has nice things to say about other Hero books of the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Walsh Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 Great post! Thanks for sharing your view of what was going on back then. I'm looking forward to the next post...and to "Worldbuilder's Guidebook." That sounds interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NuSoardGraphite Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 For those who are interested, the second part of the overall blog post, written by me, is now available: https://adeptpress.wordpress.com/2015/07/16/90s-hero-guest-post/#more-2470 tl;dr version -- Steve liked Ninja Hero so much that it had a significant influence on his view of the HERO System, his approach to writing books for it, and ultimately his development of the rules as a whole. He also has nice things to say about other Hero books of the time. I started playing HERO the year that both Ninja Hero and Fantasy Hero were released...1990. While all my friends were veteran Champions players, I quickly became much more interested in using the Hero rules for simulating more Heroic style games like Fantasy or Space Opera, as opposed to superheroes. This focus on lower powered settings has created a perception of the system that is different from the norm...those whose primary interest with Hero lies with comic book supers. Both Ninja Hero and Fantasy Hero were some of the first sourcebooks I bought for the system and their structure had a major influence on my perception of the system. I went into this game with a completely open mind and immediately saw its potential in simulating adventure fiction to the fullest....moreso than any RPG I had ever played before or since. With the release of The Ultimate Martial Artist and The Ultimate Mentalist, I quickly discovered that Mr. Long saw what I saw in the system and in a very similar way. Gaming without limitation or restriction. What I have always desired from this hobby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Baker Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 Nice follow-up to the original article. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Long Posted July 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 I quickly became much more interested in using the Hero rules for simulating more Heroic style games like Fantasy or Space Opera, as opposed to superheroes. I think the benefits of using HERO for the Heroic genres have often been overlooked. In Fantasy particularly, the ability to create one's own magic systems and spells is tremendous compared to the "use what we've put in the core book" approach most games take. Unfortunately I think a lot of that depends not only on HERO's roots in Superheroes, but the fact that early published products never really showcased this potential. I loved both Magic Items and The Spell Book, but I don't think either was widely distributed/used, and both still only presented "a bunch of stuff to use." A book with, say, 6-12 magic systems and two or three dozen spells for each would have done more to open people's eyes. But if wishes were horses we could all join the Rohirrim at the Battle of the Pelennor Fields. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Long Posted July 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 I'm looking forward to the next post...and to "Worldbuilder's Guidebook." That sounds interesting. I believe Ron has more to say about Champions (he recently wrote a blog about Champions math and his method for evaluating character power), but AFAIK he doesn't have anything specifically slated for this "series" of columns. There's really not much more to say about HERO/Champions development other than maybe talking about 5E to 6E changes, and I think that's maybe a bit too specific for the theme of his blog. But we'll see. Hopefully I can get the Worldbuilding Guidebook off the ground sometime soon -- I figure I'll write most of it and then run a Kickstarter to fund production, something like that. The danger is in getting so wrapped up in researching various sections (e.g., climate or the development of cultures) that it bogs the project down. Gotta watch myself. Fortunately I already have the outlines done to keep myself semi-on track. In the meantime, if you want to get a taste for what it'll be like, attend one of the "Worldbuilding Workshops" I run at cons. In the space of (usually) two hours the audience, guided by me, creates a world through a process of suggesting options and then voting on them. It's hellafun and always results in something interesting and delightful. (Last GenCon I got to do the Workshop in seven 1-hour sessions, which was awesome. Going to try to convince Marc Tassin to let me do it even bigger and better next year -- or maybe in some different way.) Here's a link to a description of the world that was created at last weekend's Workshop at Congregate 2: https://www.facebook.com/fansofcongregate/posts/778946542218352:0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja-Bear Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 I love Ninja Hero. I bought it before any of the rule books. Fantasy Hero spells showed me really the point about powers and special effects relate to each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Netzilla Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 I got into Hero with 3rd and played around with it some, but it wasn't until I picked up Ninja Hero (prior to even buying 4th ed) that I really fell in love with the system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Walsh Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 I believe Ron has more to say about Champions (he recently wrote a blog about Champions math and his method for evaluating character power), but AFAIK he doesn't have anything specifically slated for this "series" of columns. There's really not much more to say about HERO/Champions development other than maybe talking about 5E to 6E changes, and I think that's maybe a bit too specific for the theme of his blog. But we'll see. Hopefully I can get the Worldbuilding Guidebook off the ground sometime soon -- I figure I'll write most of it and then run a Kickstarter to fund production, something like that. The danger is in getting so wrapped up in researching various sections (e.g., climate or the development of cultures) that it bogs the project down. Gotta watch myself. Fortunately I already have the outlines done to keep myself semi-on track. In the meantime, if you want to get a taste for what it'll be like, attend one of the "Worldbuilding Workshops" I run at cons. In the space of (usually) two hours the audience, guided by me, creates a world through a process of suggesting options and then voting on them. It's hellafun and always results in something interesting and delightful. (Last GenCon I got to do the Workshop in seven 1-hour sessions, which was awesome. Going to try to convince Marc Tassin to let me do it even bigger and better next year -- or maybe in some different way.) Here's a link to a description of the world that was created at last weekend's Workshop at Congregate 2: https://www.facebook.com/fansofcongregate/posts/778946542218352:0 Oh, I misunderstood "Next: The book that wasn’t there" at the bottom of the column. That must be a column on a completely different subject. Nice world, by the way! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Long Posted July 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 "Next: The book that wasn’t there" I don't think that upcoming column has anything to do with HERO, but Ron hasn't told me anything about it so for all I know it might. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Walsh Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 I don't think that upcoming column has anything to do with HERO, but Ron hasn't told me anything about it so for all I know it might. "An in-depth examination of the unused product codes for 4e Hero System." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altair Posted July 17, 2015 Report Share Posted July 17, 2015 I enjoyed the history lesson. Once upon a time I was a budding music critic; during this time I developed an overwhelming desire to drown my readers in context. To this day, when I read a music or video game review, my immediate thought is "ok, what other things do they like?" Same thing with game design. So, reading you talk about the impact that Ninja Hero had on you, what you liked about it and why, was really informative. Frankly, I wish every RPG line developer would do a little essay about games that were influential to them, and how that effects what they see their game line as being about/for/good at. Anyway. I enjoyed muchly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Long Posted July 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 For those who are interested in such things, in response to a question from Ron I just posted a 1,400 word "comment" detailing my personal gaming experiences that gave rise to Dark Champions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Walsh Posted July 19, 2015 Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 Nice! Makes me really, really regret looking at 4e Ninja Hero on the shelf at my FLGS back in the day and saying, "Ninjas? Pfui!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NuSoardGraphite Posted July 19, 2015 Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 Nice! Makes me really, really regret looking at 4e Ninja Hero on the shelf at my FLGS back in the day and saying, "Ninjas? Pfui!" You did what? Ninja Hero was easily regarded as the best supplement for Hero in the 4th edition days. I'm surprised you didnt hear about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Walsh Posted July 19, 2015 Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 You did what? Ninja Hero was easily regarded as the best supplement for Hero in the 4th edition days. I'm surprised you didnt hear about it. I was pretty biased against ninja stories/movies/etc. in those days. They just didn't interest me at all, and I found it irritating that some of my friends seemed at times to want to talk about nothing else. If someone told me Ninja Hero was a cool supplement, I'd have dismissed whatever they said, I'm sad to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spence Posted July 19, 2015 Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 I was pretty biased against ninja stories/movies/etc. in those days. They just didn't interest me at all, and I found it irritating that some of my friends seemed at times to want to talk about nothing else. If someone told me Ninja Hero was a cool supplement, I'd have dismissed whatever they said, I'm sad to say. I know a couple of peeps like that right now.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ndreare Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 I was pretty biased against ninja stories/movies/etc. in those days. They just didn't interest me at all, and I found it irritating that some of my friends seemed at times to want to talk about nothing else. If someone told me Ninja Hero was a cool supplement, I'd have dismissed whatever they said, I'm sad to say. For years I felt this way about Vampires and Werewolves. I was so fed up because of popular fiction and the RPG community wanting to go angst on me. Now I like vampires as villains again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister E Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 Mister Long how does having not played The Harbinger of Justice in a Dark Champions campaign after so many years make you feel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 For years I felt this way about Vampires and Werewolves. I was so fed up because of popular fiction and the RPG community wanting to go angst on me. Now I like vampires as villains again. Vampires are always villains. "You either die a hero, or live long enough to get staked through the heart by one." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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