bigbywolfe Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 By the way, as I understand it, Class 100 means the ability to "press" 100 tons or more, routinely. Converted to Hero system terms, which defines the amount a character can more or less dead lift, this would basically equate to a 65+ STR rather than 60+. #pedantmode It is also a minimum, not a maximum. They stop counting after 100 tons, so "Class 100 Strength" means they can lift that much or more, often much, much more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 Class 1000 translates to 130+ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grailknight Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 Thor vs Superman would be a brutal fight. Sooner or later Thor would strap on that belt that amplifies his strength and I dunno if Supes could handle him. It depends if you consider Mjollnir's lightning to be magical or not, really. Superman is definitely stronger and faster, but he's more vulnerable to magic. And thor has several millennia of experience on Superman, but he's slower. And I suspect Clark could lift the hammer. JLA/Avengers cast its vote for Superman in a close fight. And Clark could lift the hammer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 JLA/Avengers cast its vote for Superman in a close fight. And Clark could lift the hammer. re: lifting the hammer Actually that's only on the cover (the one showing him holding Cap's Shield as well). In the issue Clark basically grabs the hammer in mid-flight after it was already hurled at a target by Thor. When Clark later attempts to pick up the stationary hammer he is unable to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comic Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 So how about Captain Marvel (Carol Danvers) vs. Wonder Woman? Well, if I'm giving the fight most ways to She Hulk, and (non-Herald) She Hulk is three tiers lower than Captain Marvel, then it'd be tough for me to give it to Wonder Woman over Carol Danvers. That said, not as interesting a fight for fans, though odds-makers might put it closer on points. There ought be next to nothing Earth-bound Diana Prince can do to Galaxy-spanning Captain Marvel that would more than inconvenience her a little. But these two foes are not well-matched. That Golden Lasso vs. Kree physiological and psychic enhancements? Who can say how that would end up? How does almost strong enough to be in Superman's class compare with stronger than Silver Surfer's class? And that again depends on which version you mean. Depowered post-Rogue version? Binary? Full on Cosmic? Original appearance? I'd have to say this one goes to fan votes, and unless the Captain Marvel movie in three years is truly epic, that'd go to WW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
薔薇語 Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 Can we just accept that superman is an uninteresting god (real god, not just comicbook Thor god) like character who can't be beaten unless the writer wants that? The man can move planets, fly at light speed (faster?), survive actual supernova level explosions, heal to full as long as he has access to sunlight, think at the same speed as the flash, see at the telescopic and atomic level, hear things hundreds of miles away, shoot out laser eye beams that rival Darkseide's omega beams, and is immortal. No one in any comic verse short of death itself has an actual chance of beating him. I couldn't even see Dr. Fate actually beating him if it wasn't for writers needing someway of slowing down their god character. Thor stands as much chance of winning as an ant does against an MMA fighter.La Rose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. MID-Nite Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 re: DC vs Marvel and who best matches up vs. who I think this art sums it up nicely Still one of the best if not THE best crossover title ever....with a great deal of respect given to ALL of the characters. My only gripe is that it probably should have been 8 issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 She Hulk is three tiers lower than Captain Marvel What tiers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drunkonduty Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 Well, if I'm giving the fight most ways to She Hulk, and (non-Herald) She Hulk is three tiers lower than Captain Marvel, then it'd be tough for me to give it to Wonder Woman over Carol Danvers. Well I was throwing it open to anyone who wanted to chime in. I had already guessed which way you'd vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comic Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 Well I was throwing it open to anyone who wanted to chime in. I had already guessed which way you'd vote. You guessed I'd vote WW, by popularity contest? Yes, I've reasoned myself into Captain Marvel beats She Hulk beats Wonder Woman beats Captain Marvel. Because comic book physics. Similarly, does anyone doubt Wonder Woman beats Wonder Man? And Diana Prince has trouble taking down Greek Gods; should Thor not give her considerable trouble in a fight, if not defeat her handily? Mostly, I'm saying unless it's actually a story, the speculation on who wins is pointless, in a genre where Squirrel Girl can defeat Galactus.. Doesn't mean it isn't fun to speculate. By the way, who'd win: WW or Squirrel Girl? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 It would take pretty amazing circumstances to get Wonder Woman to fight any woman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbywolfe Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 It would take pretty amazing circumstances to get Wonder Woman to fight any woman Many of her original foes were women. One of her few rogues gallery that isn't a god is Cheetah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 Yeah, but they were bad guys! And back then she wasn't quite the uber womynist back then that she later became. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zslane Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 Class 1000 translates to 130+ Would someone kindly translate this statement for me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 Class 1000 STR translates to a STR of 130+ in Hero. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megaplayboy Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 Can we just accept that superman is an uninteresting god (real god, not just comicbook Thor god) like character who can't be beaten unless the writer wants that? The man can move planets, fly at light speed (faster?), survive actual supernova level explosions, heal to full as long as he has access to sunlight, think at the same speed as the flash, see at the telescopic and atomic level, hear things hundreds of miles away, shoot out laser eye beams that rival Darkseide's omega beams, and is immortal. No one in any comic verse short of death itself has an actual chance of beating him. I couldn't even see Dr. Fate actually beating him if it wasn't for writers needing someway of slowing down their god character. Thor stands as much chance of winning as an ant does against an MMA fighter. La Rose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 That series is excellent; the fight between the Squadron Supreme and Avengers is classic stuff. He's not quite superman but he's a pretty close analog (basically Squadron Supreme is the Justice League). Thor's only edge is his experience (millennia) and magic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zslane Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 Class 1000 STR translates to a STR of 130+ in Hero. What is your source for that? I could never find a definitive chart for the lifting capacity of Marvel Strength past UN (100). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 The Marvel conversion charts and article that George MacDonald did for the Adventurer's Club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister E Posted February 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 Check this: http://www.classicmarvelforever.com/cms/benchmarks.html Class-1000: "bench-press" 250,000 tons Bench-pressing is about half as effective as dead-lifting. So... 500,000 tons "dead-lift" in HERO is roughly STR 122 [533 ktons]. Class-3000 is only twice as strong as Class-1000 at STR 127 [1067 ktons]. Class-5000: STR 132 [2133 ktons]. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister E Posted February 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 Is the Power Princess [squadron-Earth-712] a fair Marvel analogue of Wonder Woman to compare to She-Hulk? http://www.classicmarvelforever.com/cast/power_princess.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 Hyperion - Superman Power Princess - Wonder Woman Nighthawk - Batman Doctor Spectrum - Green Lantern Whizzer - Flash Amphibian - Aquaman Arcanna - Zatanna Blue Eagle - Hawkman Golden Archer - Green Arrow Lady Lark - Black Canary Tom Thumb - Atom Nuke - Captain Atom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister E Posted February 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 Power Princess has way more Karma than She-Hulk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 Check this: http://www.classicmarvelforever.com/cms/benchmarks.html Class-1000: "bench-press" 250,000 tons Bench-pressing is about half as effective as dead-lifting. So... 500,000 tons "dead-lift" in HERO is roughly STR 122 [533 ktons]. Class-3000 is only twice as strong as Class-1000 at STR 127 [1067 ktons]. Class-5000: STR 132 [2133 ktons]. Cool link! My starting version of Clark can acheive Class-5000 STR if only for a few seconds. 10) More powerful than a locomotive v3: Density Increase (3,344,200 kg mass, +75 STR, +15 PD/ED, -30m KB) (60 Active Points); Extra Time (Full Phase, Only to Activate, -1/4), Concentration (1/2 DCV; Only to Activate; -1/4) Real Cost: 30 Notes: Costs 6 End/Phase just to keep slot active. Using the extra Strength costs +8 End/Phase. Total = 120 STR @16 End/Phase. According to APG1, 120 STR is enought to lift 200 ktons (The Empire State Building). 41) Super Solar Battery v2: Aid END 10d6 (standard effect: 30 points) (60 Active Points); Only to Aid Self (-1), Conditional Power Only in Direct Sunlight (-0) Real Cost: 27 Notes: There are 3 factors that go into how much END is provided by this. 1) END costs 1 Real point per 5 gained. 2) END is considered a Defensive Power vs. Adjustments so their effects are halved (6e1 pg141). 3) The power COSTS 6 END to activate. The total of all of this results in an immediate boost of +69 END (30x5=150, 150/2=75, 75-6=69 with a Maximum Effect of 138) that begins to fade at -25 END per Turn. This boosted END is used first. When combined with "More powerful than a locomotive v3" (120 STR Total @16 END/Phase) & "Up, Up and Away! v2" (Flight 40m giving +10 STR @4 END/Phase) it allows for a combined 'Total Lifting STR' of 130 before PUSHING that is sustainable for ~ 1-2 Turns (Maybe 3 Turns if also combined with "Super Solar Battery v1"). According to APG1, 140 STR is enough to lift 6.4 million tons or The Great Pyramid of Giza (est.). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 My starting Diana only has 65 STR but the character has been shown multiple times exceeding even that class 5000 benchmark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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