massey Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 You tend to assume a lot, I've noticed. Great contribution, man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 Mark me down for being uncomfortable with Change Environment being used for everything and the kitchen sink as well. I wouldn't have used it for stunning, ever, but I'm not sure what other more clean and elegant device would replace it. Certainly a power that only stuns is a bit ridiculous and limited. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 Really? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Baker Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 Really? I would say those are both doing STUN damage as well as Stunning a character. Not the same thing as just applying the Stunned effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 Yeah and I'd say they aren't change environment, either. My problem isn't the idea of stunning someone. Its the idea of paying 30 points to stunlock someone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 Great contribution, man. Moreso than your comment that led down this path. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Baker Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 Yeah and I'd say they aren't change environment, either. My problem isn't the idea of stunning someone. Its the idea of paying 30 points to stunlock someone. Yes. Blast - Stun Only (and one with No Range) as the simplest build. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbywolfe Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 Great contribution, man.It's a heck of a lot better contribution than accusing someone of liking the "wrong" edition of a completely unrelated game that isn't even being discussed as some sort of snide insult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 For 30 points you get you a ranged attack that a target gets a CON roll to ignore completely. 30 Be Stunned!: Change Environment (Stunning) - END=3 Per the Power's writeup below that's effectively a 10- Activation Roll vs. a NORMAL. I don't see the problem. From APG1 page 83 (right after CHANGE ENVIRONMENT: SUFFOCATION) CHANGE ENVIRONMENT: STUNNINGAt the GM’s option, characters can also use Change Environment against a single target to create an attack that Stuns the target without reducing his STUN. This combat effect costs 30 Character Points.When used, this form of Change Environment Stuns the target, subjecting him to all the effects described on 6E2 104 (except for the loss of STUN; his STUN total isn’t reduced). The Stunned effect lasts as long as the Change Environment is maintained. However, when affected the victim gets to make a CON Roll immediately, and if the roll succeeds the attack has no effect on him. If the roll fails, he gets to make an additional CON Roll every Phase he’s affected at a cumulative +1 (so +1 on his second roll, +2 on his third, and so on). As soon as any roll succeeds, the power immediately stops affecting him and he has his full Phase in which to act. To affect him further, the character using the Change Environment has to use an Attack Action and successfully attack him again.To counteract the CON Roll, a character buying Change Environment (Stun) can include penalties to CON Rolls as an additional combat modifier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 Next time you play, see if you understand the problem when your GM has a villain use it on you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 For consideration, here's a mentalist version: Mind Blast: Change Environment (Stunning), Alternate Combat Value (uses OMCV against DMCV; +1/4), Works Against EGO, Not CON (+1/4), Area Of Effect (8m Cone; +1/4) (52 Active Points) It's my take on the D&D Mind Flayer attack. You could probably also do a PRE-based version as some kind of super skill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 Next time you play, see if you understand the problem when your GM has a villain use it on you. What is that supposed to mean? If a GM wants to make a villain have a chance of Stunning a PC what mechanics or special effect the villain uses makes little difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 What it means is this: every time the villain hits with this power, it stuns you. Link it to another attack. Have it hit you with a CON drain. See how much you like being stunlocked. Nobody likes being stunned, and this makes it too easy for too cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 What it means is this: every time the villain hits with this power, it stuns you. Link it to another attack. Have it hit you with a CON drain. See how much you like being stunlocked. Nobody likes being stunned, and this makes it too easy for too cheap. It clearly states in the power description I posted earlier that it is NOT an automatic effect vs. any character. A group of agents with Teamwork and effective coordinated fire can stunlock a character without a complicated power build. Is using THAT tactic somehow badwrongfun on the part of a GM now? Being Stunned is just one part of the combat mechanics. Nothing more.. nothing less. And the pricing seems spot on considering that Cannot Be Stunned only costs 15 points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister E Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 "A character Surprised while out of combat... takes 2x STUN from attacks."(6E2 50) How would you handle CE:Stunning if used as a Surprise Attack out of combat? There isn't any STUN damage (w/ CE:Stunning) to multiply. In doesn't seem like CE:Stunning benefits in this manner from Surprises out of combat. Am I wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister E Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 Meanwhile... Only For Stunning attacks work normally for Surprises out of combat (concerning the 2x STUN multiplier). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 Seems legit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister E Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 Sfx-wise, what is the difference? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 Nothing. If you think the CE:Stunning attack is getting shortchanged you could impose a penalty to the CON roll for being surprised I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister E Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 Why not make it inverse to the OCV bonus? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister E Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 Wow. Now I am thinking there needs to be a CE:"Surprising". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 We'll call it "Surprise Birthday Party". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister E Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 My paranoia is acting up. What would the defense be for CE:"Surprising"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 Full Defense Maneuver (10 points) maybe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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