Ranxerox Posted June 25, 2015 Report Share Posted June 25, 2015 And one is trained to kill without hesitation when they damnwell feel like it. The other is trained to write. Ah, yes, the Spider Jerusalem school of journalism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 There was an interesting NPR piece back when this was happening when one of the correspondents sat down with her friend, who was a female police officer, to watch the tape of that incident. To the correspondent it was painfully obvious that the cop there was choking an innocent man to death, but to the female police officer it was clear that the victim was resisting arrest. And they were watching the same video at the same time. Not that I think it excuses the cop, but it was an interesting thing to consider. It was. Frankly, my first reading into it, and this may show my own bias, is that it seems to validate a lot of the 'us vs them' mentality theories Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 There was an interesting NPR piece back when this was happening when one of the correspondents sat down with her friend, who was a female police officer, to watch the tape of that incident. To the correspondent it was painfully obvious that the cop there was choking an innocent man to death, but to the female police officer it was clear that the victim was resisting arrest. And they were watching the same video at the same time. Not that I think it excuses the cop, but it was an interesting thing to consider. hm. I heard something on NPR where they were talking about a case of someone who died in the back of a police car, screaming for medical assistance. There was an audio recording - I think it was the dash cam running and recording sound? But in any case, the police chief expected the recording to exonerate the officers because "they never touched the guy." The police weren't expecting the extreme negative reaction of the public, which was "how can you let that person scream and die?" The chief explained that he, and the rest of his department, forgot that the general public wouldn't realize that every officer on the beat has heard a dozen perfectly healthy suspects screaming the exact same things in the exact same way. they could let a person die because their prior experiences did not prepare them for the possibility that in THIS particular case that on the surface was identical to 20 previous situations someone actually WOULD die. They had reason to believe the screaming person would be fine, but they were wrong. According to what I heard, that department changed their policy and now screaming for medical attention in that town gets you medical attention. But in this particular case, someone was able to explain how a police officer's response (or lack of) was actually from the police point of view, reasonable. There are too many cases in this thread I don't think I've heard even an attempted reasonable explanation for. Lucius Alexander Even if I don't have a license for this palindromedary that doesn't justify shooting me. Or shooting the palindromedary. gewing 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranxerox Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 . Lucius AlexanderEven if I don't have a license for this palindromedary that doesn't justify shooting me. Or shooting the palindromedary. Of course it doesn't. When, um I'm sorry, I mean if we shoot you, it will for other reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cygnia Posted June 29, 2015 Report Share Posted June 29, 2015 This doesn't fill me with confidence... The 80,000-Volt Handcuffs That Let Cops Shock Prisoners Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wcw43921 Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 I would hope, at the very least, that the officers trained to use such devices are required to subject themselves to their effects before being allowed to inflict those devices upon prisoners in their custody. But I think in actuality the training for the devices consists of little more than watching the DVD that accompanied them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csyphrett Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 I understand that some people under the influence can break regular handcuffs, but do we need to be able to stick people in portable electric chairs? CES Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markdoc Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 Suddenly, Tony Stark's electrogenital shock collars don't seem so far fetched .... cheers, Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wcw43921 Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 I understand that some people under the influence can break regular handcuffs, but do we need to be able to stick people in portable electric chairs? CES The company that makes them--and the LE agencies they market to--very likely don't see it that way. They see them as a less-lethal method of ensuring compliance, much like the Taser was supposed to be a less-lethal method of subduing a perp to get him into custody. The fact that the Taser has proven lethal in certain instances hasn't deterred its use, and I consider it doubtful that the the first death to occur--and it will--from these electric shackles will deter their use as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragitsu Posted July 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/watch-fired-colorado-beats-handcuffed-suspect-bloody-article-1.2276625 "STOP RESISTING! STOP RESISTING!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted July 2, 2015 Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/watch-fired-colorado-beats-handcuffed-suspect-bloody-article-1.2276625 "STOP RESISTING! STOP RESISTING!" Yeah, I've seen a lot of videos like that in the past year, too many. Police officers wailing on a guy who seems defeated, beaten, and huddling, and screaming 'Stop resisting' over and over. To the point where I can only guess than twitching must be a form of defiance. Or maybe its that annoying breathing thing they do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted July 2, 2015 Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 This doesn't fill me with confidence... The 80,000-Volt Handcuffs That Let Cops Shock Prisoners Missed this. I'm almost sorry i saw it. Given my opinion of human nature right now, I cannot see in anyway shape or form this being a good idea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted July 2, 2015 Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 Yeah, I've seen a lot of videos like that in the past year, too many. Police officers wailing on a guy who seems defeated, beaten, and huddling, and screaming 'Stop resisting' over and over. To the point where I can only guess than twitching must be a form of defiance. Or maybe its that annoying breathing thing they do? Often their skin color is very uncooperative Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cancer Posted July 2, 2015 Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 But in this particular case, someone was able to explain how a police officer's response (or lack of) was actually from the police point of view, reasonable. There are too many cases in this thread I don't think I've heard even an attempted reasonable explanation for. Lucius Alexander So if it's negligent homicide rather than outright murder, then that's okay, hmm? When you restrain someone and remove their ability to act in any way, you assume all responsibility for that person's life and welfare (with exceptions for conditions like illness or poisoning that were already in progress at the time of taking into custody). That is inherent in the legal system. So when a restrained suspect dies in custody due to treatment by police it affirms that the police do not care if you live or die despite a clear duty otherwise. Looking at easy-available numbers ... and the numbers especially of killings by police are incomplete ... police kill about four times as many people as police who die in duty (either outright killings or in accidents). It is unclear to me if the died-in-custody cases are included in killings total. I concede there could well be apples-vs-oranges comparisons there. But on the other hand, the police-to-population ratio in the US is about 400 police per 100,000 population. It would be interesting to work out the actuarial tables to figure out how much one chance's of death go up when a police officer is present. It would be ironic if that was actually a larger factor than, say, illegal narcotic use or HIV infection. Ragitsu 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted July 2, 2015 Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/watch-fired-colorado-beats-handcuffed-suspect-bloody-article-1.2276625 "STOP RESISTING! STOP RESISTING!" I see they charged and convicted this guy . . . of attempted assault. Good thing he didn't succeed with his assault! I'd hate to see the victim then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragitsu Posted July 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 There have been dash-cam recordings and building security camera footage up until this point, but now it's going to be all about that (effectively) first-person video. I wonder if it will be more intrinsically shaming in regards to these ridiculous "Stop resisting!" faux warnings upon playback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragitsu Posted July 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2015 http://photographyisnotacrime.com/2015/06/minnesota-deputy-arrested-after-caught-on-camera-beating-k9-partner/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted July 4, 2015 Report Share Posted July 4, 2015 Gee, this isn't an incident asking to happen... http://money.cnn.com/2015/07/01/news/companies/iphone-case-gun/index.html?iid=ob_homepage_money_pool&iid=obnetwork Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted July 4, 2015 Report Share Posted July 4, 2015 http://photographyisnotacrime.com/2015/06/minnesota-deputy-arrested-after-caught-on-camera-beating-k9-partner/ The dog lover in me is thinking quite horrid things right now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted July 4, 2015 Report Share Posted July 4, 2015 Gee, this isn't an incident asking to happen... http://money.cnn.com/2015/07/01/news/companies/iphone-case-gun/index.html?iid=ob_homepage_money_pool&iid=obnetwork Oh dear lord. It takes a special kind of stupid to manufacture and buy these. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted July 4, 2015 Report Share Posted July 4, 2015 So if it's negligent homicide rather than outright murder, then that's okay, hmm? I didn't say that. I didn't mean that. And I do find it hard to believe you actually think I did. So for the sake of civil discussion, and out of respect for the other valuable and interesting things you have to say, I will refrain from taking offense. Lucius Alexander The palindromedary says it would be better if I refrained from even taking notice. bigbywolfe 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus Impudite Posted July 4, 2015 Report Share Posted July 4, 2015 The dog lover in me is thinking quite horrid things right now If he had killed someone's pet, he would've got off with a slap on the wrist; if even that much. Ragitsu 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted July 4, 2015 Report Share Posted July 4, 2015 It would be interesting to work out the actuarial tables to figure out how much one chance's of death go up when a police officer is present. Yes, it would, Personally I'm skeptical that anyone can work out such a table without relying on a host of assumptions or dubious, incomplete data. But I think you probably can prove statistically that a police officer is more likely to cause the death of someone else while on duty, than to die on duty. Lucius Alexander I know of no one who has died while riding a palindromedary. Maybe I'll stay mounted forever... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted July 4, 2015 Report Share Posted July 4, 2015 If he had killed someone's pet, he would've got off with a slap on the wrist; if even that much. Oh yeah, the cops free reign to puppycide is well documented. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus Impudite Posted July 4, 2015 Report Share Posted July 4, 2015 In addition to body cameras, I find myself of the opinion that cops should have a remote-triggerable high-voltage device implanted in their rectums. First time they commit so much as a tiny abuse their authority, they get 10,000,000 volts up the ass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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