Hermit Posted April 27, 2015 Report Share Posted April 27, 2015 Look, I don't care for butt crack fashion, whether you're a plumber or not... but it doesn't justify lighting some poor SOB up and leaving him to die. Yes, I'm stating the obvious, but apparently somehow the obvious is going over many Law Enforcement departments' collective heads Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
薔薇語 Posted April 27, 2015 Report Share Posted April 27, 2015 Geeze. Perhaps it is a good thing I left the US after all. Seriously, corrupt and Killer cops are a bit too much. I am fortunate enough that I don't have to be involved in the 24 hour news cycle of hearing about these and yet I still learn about probably one corruption or murder case a day. Sad state of affairs. La Rose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted April 28, 2015 Report Share Posted April 28, 2015 Albuquerque DA threatened by police Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted April 28, 2015 Report Share Posted April 28, 2015 I wish her luck, and kudos to the decent cops who warned her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoneDaddy Posted April 28, 2015 Report Share Posted April 28, 2015 So how does elected mayor Betty McCray fit into this small town melodrama? I've been trying to figure that out, but it looks hinky all around. I suspect the whole city hall could just be turned into a jail and they could let everyone keep their original offices, from mayor to council to police to city attorney. It will make an interesting news item when someone figures it all out, but I expect it will be off the radar by then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gewing Posted April 28, 2015 Report Share Posted April 28, 2015 There was a discussion of the Baltimore protests and riots on "On Point" this morning. Funny how many excuses one panelist in particular was making for the high school rioters. It was all the Police Departments fault, because they did not "Engage with the youths" at the schools during the day, and then when they gathered for ALLEGEDLY a "Purge." The police showed up in riot gear. And another was basically accusing the police department of lying in its statements that they had "Credible Threats" of gang members allying to attack police and of the "Purge" gathering. He said that they (his group of community leaders) had "Signed Statements" from the Gang Leaders that they were NOT up to such things. I'm Sorry, GANG MEMBERS treated as honest citizens? Rational Actors and Honest Negotiators? I could well be out to lunch on this, but GANG MEMBERS are criminals. Criminals are NOT honest, nearly by definition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Posted April 28, 2015 Report Share Posted April 28, 2015 I'd put more stock in the words of Baltimore police officers if Freddy Grey had not mysteriously died on their watch. Fine when they arrested him and, unless I'm greatly mistaken, managed to sustain a severe spinal injury on the way to lock up and as a result, he died. Perhaps Baltimore police should put more work into investigating that, instead of pointing fingers at other people. Shadow Hawk and Ragitsu 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted April 28, 2015 Report Share Posted April 28, 2015 The Atlantic: Rough Rides and the Challenges of Improving Police Culture Really makes me sick that this is a thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoneDaddy Posted April 28, 2015 Report Share Posted April 28, 2015 If you think gang members are dishonest, you should see the baltimore PD. the gang members live here, and have an investment in a community that includes their families and their (illicit) businesses. They don't benefit from a broken city any more than the rest of us. Ragitsu 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
薔薇語 Posted April 28, 2015 Report Share Posted April 28, 2015 Hey, both groups are known to murder others over trivial perceived slights against them. But at least one of those groups risks actual arrest and prosecution. Guess which one I am more likely to trust these days. La Rose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gewing Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 I'd put more stock in the words of Baltimore police officers if Freddy Grey had not mysteriously died on their watch. Fine when they arrested him and, unless I'm greatly mistaken, managed to sustain a severe spinal injury on the way to lock up and as a result, he died. Perhaps Baltimore police should put more work into investigating that, instead of pointing fingers at other people. Sounds like they ARE investigating... Oh, and the Mayor said iirc two days ago that(basically, not exact words) they "are leaving room for the people who feel the need to destroy to destroy stuff." Since then she has said she would never have said anything like that, but she was on camera, so... I wonder, does that make the City liable for the damages they declined to stop? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gewing Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 If you think gang members are dishonest, you should see the baltimore PD. the gang members live here, and have an investment in a community that includes their families and their (illicit) businesses. They don't benefit from a broken city any more than the rest of us. They may well be FUBAR, but by definition, Street gangs are Criminals. It is at least possible that a Police officer is NOT a criminal, despite what Mick Jagger sang, and the obvious impression many have gotten from recent events. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gewing Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 The Atlantic: Rough Rides and the Challenges of Improving Police Culture Really makes me sick that this is a thing. According to "Breaking Blue" which is a very interesting read, here in Spokane, it used to be common for suspects to "Fall Down" and injure themselves in the elevator to the upper floor holding cells. This was, iirc early 70s. Reading the article I had a few thoughts. The pursuit of him, after he "Locked eyes with an officer then ran" is actually constitutionally supported, if I correctly recall my Con-Law class. Flight on sighting officers is, according to the Supreme Court, grounds for a stop. I have seen what purports to be a rap sheet for Gray. IF it is correct, he may well have been recognized by the officers as a known drug dealer. I have seen comments that this record makes him not worthy of protest, let alone riots. I DISAGREE intensely, as NONE of the crimes are Capital offenses. Even if they were, it looks an awful lot lik His possession of a knife could mean a weapon, could mean a tiny pocket knife, I don't know. Off topic: I know when a Transient was booked in front of me for trespassing, the officer went through his belongings. There were about 5 different cheap pocket knives tucked away in rolled up socks and other hiding places. My first thought about the injury to Gray was a flashback to the death(murder) of the Commissar in "Red Storm Rising." Slam the base of his skull down on a hard edge... The Damage to his trachea and reports that an officer kneeled on his throat makes that seem the more likely cause/moment of injury. I have seen comments that Gray's alleged record makes him not worthy of protest, let alone riots. I DISAGREE intensely, as NONE of the crimes are Capital offenses. Even if they were, it looks an awful lot like Excessive force, Police Brutality, or even extra-judicial killing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gewing Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 I found a quote about what the Mayor said “It’s a very delicate balancing act, because, while we tried to make sure that they were protected from the cars and the other things that were going on, we also gave those who wished to destroy space to do that as well.” My reaction was basically WTF??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoneDaddy Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 The chief of police, asked about the lack of violent response (sorry, "escalation of force") by the riot police, said "there were 13, 14, and 15 year-old kids out there, do you want us to shoot them?" He has a point. Also, escalation of force almost never leads to de-escalation of conflict. It feels reckless and unjust, but waiting it out was a smarter move. Doing what they did very likely saved lives and property and let tonight be a quiet night in my city. If the guys with the truncheons are not beating people, trust that they have good reason to do so. Truncheons love working, and it is hard to hold them at your side without finding something to hit with them. Enforcer84, Pattern Ghost, Twilight and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cygnia Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 Eyewitnesses: The Baltimore Riots Didn't Start the Way You Think assault 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 Chicago cop found not guilty of manslaughter after shooting unarmed black woman in back of head What the hell? gewing 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 Holy Crap. I'm going to call the cops here in Portland and take them out for a drink. 1) The officers I've met and encountered have been great and 2) I may just want to get on their good side. Been living in Portland for 3 years now and yesterday afternoon while waiting for the streetcar to take me home from grocery shopping I saw a fight between two homeless (maybe not homeless, but non-affluent white gentlemen in their late 50's or really hard lives) fellows. Mostly shouting and shoving and then LOTS of shouting and flipping of birds. Three cop cars arrived to deal with it when they were called. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 Pantsless Enforcer84 shot in back of head by Portland police. "He went for his waistband," cops say Enforcer84 and assault 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragitsu Posted April 29, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 I've heard some..."tales"...about PDX cops. I don't know if I can find the full details, but supposedly a group of them shot at a somewhat distantly related family member that was on fire because of an accident, and ended up killing him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clonus Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 What the hell? Let me explain. He was not guilty of manslaughter because the crime of manslaughter requires that you accidentally kill someone through reckless behaviour. Since his behaviour was deliberate, he was not guilty of manslaughter. His acquittal is because the prosecutor lowballed the charge below what the facts of the case would support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
薔薇語 Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 Let me explain. He was not guilty of manslaughter because the crime of manslaughter requires that you accidentally kill someone through reckless behaviour. Since his behaviour was deliberate, he was not guilty of manslaughter. His acquittal is because the prosecutor lowballed the charge below what the facts of the case would support. God bless America. Land of the Free roaming murdering cops. Land where cops get off because when charged with what they did, the judge says its too harsh. When charged with less, they get off because they are more guilty. La Rose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 Ragitsu, Sociotard and 薔薇語 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gewing Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 A: rioting thugs are rioting thugs. Treat them identically. B: there is one difference besides race. Assinine athletic supporter riots are not politically motivated and are not likely to continue or spread. Just as the definition of terrorism has qualifiers based on intent... Hmm, intended to bring about political change. Does that make the Baltimore rioters terrorists? The protests are justified, about real problems. The riots, I have assumed were anarchists and hooligans using an excuse to cause chaos and violence. But if we take their claims as to cause at face value... Technicalities in legal definitions are part of why law does NOT equal justice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vurbal Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 Another gem from Ken White at Popehat: Cops: We Need Rights More Than You, Citizen 薔薇語 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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