Marvel Cinematic Universe, Phase Three and BEYOOOOONND

[Hugh Neilson]

1 hour ago, Old Man said:

Risked covid last night to see Thor Love & Thunder in the theater.  I expected maximum Taika Waititi silliness out of this one, and my expectations were met if not exceeded.  Christian Bale and Natalie Portman were well worth the price of admission--especially Portman as Mighty Thor.  I'd put this one somewhere around GotG2 on the MCU continuum; uneven but still good.  That said, if you didn't like Ragnarok or Dude Thor, or you are excessively serious about the source material, you might want to wait for this one to come out on streaming.

 

I saw it yesterday as well.  Your assessment matches my own.  MCU Thor has taken a different path from Marvel Comics Thor - if one can accept that, then the movies become much more enjoyable.  But expecting "Serious Shakespeare Speech Thor" sets the viewer up for disappointment.

 

Feels like MCU regrets making Asgard "Alien Superscience" as the God Card was played often.

[Lord Liaden]

10 hours ago, Old Man said:

That said, if you didn't like Ragnarok or Dude Thor, or you are excessively serious about the source material, you might want to wait for this one to come out on streaming.

 

That pretty aptly describes me, except that I don't stream. If I eventually come across a DVD of the movie at a greatly reduced price, I might pick it up.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Yeah goofy "butt of every joke" Thor doesn't appeal to me at all.  Nor does mopey Thor who must find himself or magic Thor who turns Mjolnir into a sentient being that self-repairs and "helps" people by making their cancer kill them faster.

[mattingly]

I was so happy that goats were screamers.

[Dr. MID-Nite]

Is it so much to ask for a Thor who...while perhaps not the ultra serious Shakespeare talking godling.....is at least not treating supposedly serious situations (for example the death of all of his friends and the destruction of his homeland) as an opportunity for one liners? Why are my choices....too serious Thor or too stupid Thor? There is a happy middle ground in there...which the Thor and Avengers movies mostly got right (except for fat Thor).

[dmjalund]

Not having seen the movie, does anyone think there is enough footage to make this a less annoying movie?

[Hugh Neilson]

13 hours ago, Dr. MID-Nite said:

Is it so much to ask for a Thor who...while perhaps not the ultra serious Shakespeare talking godling.....is at least not treating supposedly serious situations (for example the death of all of his friends and the destruction of his homeland) as an opportunity for one liners? Why are my choices....too serious Thor or too stupid Thor? There is a happy middle ground in there...which the Thor and Avengers movies mostly got right (except for fat Thor).

 

In fairness, Fat Thor trained up pretty quick in the new movie.  However, I did find the switches between Slapstick Thor and Serious Thor make it feel like two different movies in one (much like Ragnarok).

 

But I have to guess ticket sales to Ragnarok  support that model, or they either would not have matched it in Thor 4, or there would have been no Thor 4.

[Lord Liaden]

Ragnarok's global box office was pretty impressive, in the $800 million range. We'll have to see the numbers for Love and Thunder to determine if Marvel took the lesson from that example that's most profitable.

[Ternaugh]

11 minutes ago, Lord Liaden said:

Ragnarok's global box office was pretty impressive, in the $800 million range. We'll have to see the numbers for Love and Thunder to determine if Marvel took the lesson from that example that's most profitable.

 

Box Office Mojo has Thor: Love and Thunder winning the past weekend, with a domestic gross of a little over $144 million, almost $33K per screen. Including the international gross, it's at a little over $303 million so far.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Hemsworth himself was not happy with the serious, stoic, heroic Thor, and likes playing a goofball that is a slapstick joke, so that probably has something to do with the writing as well.

 

Based on the production cost, they'll have to pull in half a billion to break even, we'll see.  Eternals didn't make any money 😕

[Lord Liaden]

7 hours ago, Ternaugh said:

 

Box Office Mojo has Thor: Love and Thunder winning the past weekend, with a domestic gross of a little over $144 million, almost $33K per screen. Including the international gross, it's at a little over $303 million so far.

 

Second-week drop-off will be more indicative of how the B.O. will trend.

[Lord Liaden]

4 hours ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

Hemsworth himself was not happy with the serious, stoic, heroic Thor, and likes playing a goofball that is a slapstick joke, so that probably has something to do with the writing as well.

 

 

It's not so much that he was unhappy with serious Thor, as that the character had become stagnant. He wasn't growing or progressing, so Chris was getting bored with him, as was the audience. Hemsworth's most recent movie, Extraction, was anything but goofy or slapstick.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Eh, good writers can make a serious character fresh and interesting without "growth" or "having to find themselves" story arcs.  People wrote dozens of great storylines with the character over the 50+ year history of the character.  He wasn't stagnant, the writing was.

[Old Man]

6 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

 

It's not so much that he was unhappy with serious Thor, as that the character had become stagnant. He wasn't growing or progressing, so Chris was getting bored with him, as was the audience. Hemsworth's most recent movie, Extraction, was anything but goofy or slapstick.

 

To be honest, I think serious Thor is really hard to write.  He worked best in the Avengers films where he could play the straight man against Tony, Clint, and Natasha, or watch Steve pretend he can't lift the hammer.  When he's the lead it's way harder.  It's similar to the way Superman is hard to write.

 

I ran across the first Thor flipping channels on cable and I was struck by, one, how much younger Hemsworth was, and two, how he still wasn't playing serious Thor for the first half of the film. 

[Christopher R Taylor]

Quote

I ran across the first Thor flipping channels on cable and I was struck by, one, how much younger Hemsworth was, and two, how he still wasn't playing serious Thor for the first half of the film. 

 

I think that's what people mean when they are talking about a compromise between "Thor the bumbling idiot who is the butt of every joke" and "Shakespearean drama".  Thor the fish out of water without his powers bumbling around makes sense for the story.  Making him that way all the time even when he's allegedly a 1000-year-old leader of his people is just... wrong.

[Lord Liaden]

17 hours ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

Eh, good writers can make a serious character fresh and interesting without "growth" or "having to find themselves" story arcs.  People wrote dozens of great storylines with the character over the 50+ year history of the character.  He wasn't stagnant, the writing was.

 

Heartily agree with you. The writers hadn't figured out what to do with Thor before he was Waititi-ed. But from an actor's perspective, if you aren't being given interesting stuff to do it doesn't matter whose fault that is.

 

11 hours ago, Old Man said:

 

To be honest, I think serious Thor is really hard to write.  He worked best in the Avengers films where he could play the straight man against Tony, Clint, and Natasha, or watch Steve pretend he can't lift the hammer.  When he's the lead it's way harder.  It's similar to the way Superman is hard to write.

 

 

The current Superman and Lois series is one of the few things on television I follow these days. I was never a big fan of the character, but those writers truly understand what makes Superman who he is, and are telling solid original stories based on the Man of Steel's extensive mythology, while taking him in new directions. It's only hard if you forget that he's a person first, a demigod second.

 

And Thor not only has a lot of comic mythology to draw from, he has actual mythology! The possibilities are endless.

[Old Man]

1 minute ago, Lord Liaden said:

And Thor not only has a lot of comic mythology to draw from, he has actual mythology! The possibilities are endless.

 

True, although sometimes the actual mythology is really weird.

[dmjalund]

1 minute ago, Old Man said:

 

True, although sometimes the actual mythology is really weird.

all the better!

[L. Marcus]

Did they ever do a comics version of Thor's Wedding ... ?

[Dr. MID-Nite]

So...just got back from Love and Thunder. As I feared, Ragnarök all over again. What stinks is that there was a lot of potential for the serious side of this story, but the film fumbles it with the now usual....every situation is a joke...writing. Bale is playing a serious villain in a not serious movie. It's a shame. They come close a few times to some actual drama but pull away back to the jokes before anything relevant comes across on screen. It was better than Ragnarök, but it could have been so much more IMO.

[Jhamin]

6 hours ago, Old Man said:

 

True, although sometimes the actual mythology is really weird.

 

Doesn't one of the actual legends involve Thor getting into a drinking contest with a cup that is magically linked to the ocean?  So he has to literally drink the ocean to win?  And does surprisingly well?

Im pretty sure there is another one where the Gods make a bet with a Giant about building a wall, realize they are going to lose, so they ask Loki to get them out of it.  Loki does this by turning into a female horse and distracting the Giant's magic stallion... and gets the Gods out of the bet but ends up pregnant.  He keeps it and gives the foal to Odin to ride around on.

 

MCU Loki is a piker compared to myth Loki.

 

Norse mythology is out there.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Quote

Doesn't one of the actual legends involve Thor getting into a drinking contest with a cup that is magically linked to the ocean?  So he has to literally drink the ocean to win?  And does surprisingly well?

 

Yeah he's visibly lowering the water level of the oceans and they send... Heimdall?  I think to tell him what's going on.

[Bazza]

That event/story  happened in the comics as well IIRC. 

[slikmar]

On 7/13/2022 at 11:19 AM, Christopher R Taylor said:

 

I think that's what people mean when they are talking about a compromise between "Thor the bumbling idiot who is the butt of every joke" and "Shakespearean drama".  Thor the fish out of water without his powers bumbling around makes sense for the story.  Making him that way all the time even when he's allegedly a 1000-year-old leader of his people is just... wrong.

Just got back, and I agree with this. I enjoyed about 80% of the movie. Thought the story and ending were great, but I agree that the humor felt out of place at times, or maybe too much. Also, stupid Thor, doesn't work for me. I will spoiler the rest since will be using specifics and don't want to ruin it for those who haven't seen it.

Spoiler

I loved Jane's hero journey and did not feel Portman mailed in her performance, though the ending was predictable once all the information was given.

There were times in the movie where you saw Leader (yes with capital L) Thor and then, and given what others said, I understand this is a Waititi thing, where it would be ruined by a stupid joke/bumble etc. I found his feuding with a jealous Stormbringer to be plain, dumb, not humorous.

I thought Bale's Thor was excellent, but Bale usually is.

Zeus was obnoxious but then I believe that is canon for Marvel, and am looking forward to, and hoping for - "And then he laid a blow so mighty on me that I flew to a place even the God's do not go".

I guess they could not get Rene Russo, because I thought she would have been better receiving Jane in Valhalla.

I wasn't happy with better Thor then Thor, Jane. But in the end, it showed their difference and his experience. He could beat Gor but she at best could match him.

I also wasn't happy with his completely overshadowing the Guardians, as, honestly, even as presented in the MCU, collectively they are a match for him. Drax should be near his strength alone, but I know MCU Drax isn't the comics Drax.

My specifics in the inappropriate humor type stuff, not funny : telling Sif her arm was probably in Valhalla (and boy am I glad they resisted showing it there in post credit scene.; Joking with the people whose temple he just destroyed.

there are others but my brain can't bring them up right now.

As I said, I enjoyed about 80% of the movie, problem was, those 20% were sprinkled in amongst the movie.

I also think they missed a perfect opportunity for a throwback line. Once Thor and Jane get to talk, he should have asked her if this was how she looked now. She could have replied seems so or something and he could have said "It's a goood look", mirroring her response when she first saw him in the armor near the end of the first movie.

 

[Bazza]

On 6/28/2018 at 8:12 PM, Bazza said:

Personally, I'll pass. 

Well, 5 years later. Watching Morbius. Much less stupid than I was expecting.