Marvel Cinematic Universe, Phase Three and BEYOOOOONND

[Greywind]

I really like Daredevil and Jessica Jones, but I'm getting fatigue with the spandex'd god style heroes and the movie released. I'm much more into "naturalistic" and "street level" heroes. I find those shows relatable and intriguing. Captain America, Black Widow, and Spidey are about as high-powered as I like to get. On the DC side, I like Arrow, but Flash while well done is too "out there" for me. I quit watching Agents of Sheild when they went down the Inhumans rabbit-hole.

 

Thor? Iron Man? Hulk? Fun to watch. Enjoyed 'em. But one of each was enough for me. Doc Strange? He's an AD&D wizard in a comic universe. When will Dungeon Master show up? Both Avengers were solid, but how many movies do I have to watch to keep up with the meta-plot? A big part of this is "enough already," though. Its just too damned much. Its comic overload. Its too many titles and heroes.

 

When I read comics, I didn't read freaking all of them and the universe-wide crossover craze is why I quit reading them altogether. I just wanted to read the ones I like. I guess that's what is really making me tired - they all tie into one another and set one another up. I don't want to have to watch them all in order to keep up with the one's I do want to see. I'm looking forward to Captain America. I'm looking forward to A3. I hope they make a Widow movies.

 

But, I have other genres I enjoy, too.

 

And, I'll say it again: Doc Strange is an AD&D Wizard living in Marvel York.

 

Personally, I prefer the heroes to be bigger than life; capable of doing more than the normal person. I am liking what Marvel is doing because the characters (for the most part) that I loved while growing up are there on the screen.

 

I like that one movie is leading into another. It is a dynamic reality, much like our own.

 

The alternative is like the one-off story that is totally self-contained in which the villain is never seen again. Ever. Those stories always bothered me. One issue the hero learns how to do X with his powers...and then never does it again. When this happens you have zero-growth characters. They come out of whatever trials they went into exactly the same as they went into them.

 

http://pulse.therpf.com/hi-res-image-of-spider-man-costume-black-panther-plus-captain-america-civil-war-trailer-screencaps

[Vondy]

 

The alternative is like the one-off story that is totally self-contained in which the villain is never seen again. Ever. 

 

That's not the only alternative. You are presenting a false dichotomy. 

 

One alternative would be to have more than one movie for a character without cross-overs.

 

Or a television series (my preference).

 

Or limit crossovers to stories and characters whose style and tone and themes work well together.

 

Or, to just avoid a giant White Wolfian World of Darkness crapfest-meta-plot that involves every title in the franchise.

 

Do the crossovers on the sub-continental scale and drop references to the other characters and movie events.

 

The MU has always been a wonky picasso of a world with conflicting concepts and themes that often mix badly. 

 

You say it makes a dynamic reality, much like our own. Great. Glad you like it.

 

I say it makes an internally incoherent mess and always has.

 

I don't want Starlord bantering with Thor while Doctor Strange ensorcells Iron Man's armor so that Deadpool can put the kill shot on Thanos as Jessica Jones gooses the Hulk and Cap goes deep french kiss on Susan Storm Richards while Spidey high-fives Wolverine for kicking Paul Atreides, I mean Daisy's dad, in the privates as Agent Coulsen asks: "Who the hell is darkseid?" I just don't.

 

We could also bring Dracula and Wolfman back. After all, they fought Spidey!

 

Wait. You're right. That would make for a much more dynamic world. Let's do it.

[Bazza]

Then maybe we will finally get a decent D&D movie. 

 

PS:  Who wins in a fight between Elminster, Mordenkainen and Dr. Strange? 

 

Khelben Blackstaff.

 

Étienne d'Ambreville became Immortal.

 

 

(Guessing respectfully this would be a negative in Vondy's book)

[Vondy]

Étienne d'Ambreville became Immortal.

 

 

(Guessing respectfully this would be a negative in Vondy's book)

 

I don't mind Dr. Strange, really.

 

If you like 70's-esque astral planar psychadelia, he's great.

 

I'm just not overfond of those things.

 

I don't think that mixes well thematically, stylistically, or conceptually with some characters / titles.

 

It's its own kind of story with its own place and time.

 

Like, when you're playing AD&D....

[Bazza]

I don't mind Dr. Strange, really.

 

If you like 70's-esque astral planar psychadelia, he's great.

 

I'm just not overfond of those things.

 

I don't think that mixes well thematically, stylistically, or conceptually with some characters / titles.

 

It's its own kind of story with its own place and time.

 

Like, when you're playing AD&D....

 

Fair enough. I can agree with that (the thematically, stylistically, or conceptually difference between Strange and "regular Marvel").

 

I've read that when Stan Lee was writing Silver Surfer's initial solo book it had a different style and concept to the regular Marvel comic at the time. Thus, Doctor Strange is not alone with this. 

[Vondy]

Fair enough. I can agree with that (the thematically, stylistically, or conceptually difference between Strange and "regular Marvel").

 

I've read that when Stan Lee was writing Silver Surfer's initial solo book it had a different style and concept to the regular Marvel comic at the time. Thus, Doctor Strange is not alone with this. 

 

The Fantastic Four as a title, especially early on, dealt with a lot of cosmic oddities and powers, including Silver Surfer. For them to interface with those things, or Strange, isn't jarring and works well with their background / origin story and the way the book has always been written. A lot of the other titles simply don't go there, and when they do, one typically prefers to forget about it.

[Bazza]

The Fantastic Four as a title, especially early on, dealt with a lot of cosmic oddities and powers, including Silver Surfer. For them to interface with those things, or Strange, isn't jarring and works well with their background / origin story and the way the book has always been written. A lot of the other titles simply don't go there, and when they do, one typically prefers to forget about it.

 

That is one of the reasons I love about the Fantastic Four. A well done tv show would be awesome. 

[Vondy]

That is one of the reasons I love about the Fantastic Four. A well done tv show would be awesome. 

 

Agreed.

[zslane]

I'm with Greywind on this. I want Silver Age Four Color superheroes built on at least 250 points (those are pre-5th ed Champions points, btw) in my superhero cinema. The MCU is the closest thing to that so far, and Marvel has done a good job of giving me my fix every year.

[Starlord]

Luke Cage coming Sep 30

[Lord Liaden]

I don't want Starlord bantering with Thor while Doctor Strange ensorcells Iron Man's armor so that Deadpool can put the kill shot on Thanos as Jessica Jones gooses the Hulk and Cap goes deep french kiss on Susan Storm Richards while Spidey high-fives Wolverine for kicking Paul Atreides, I mean Daisy's dad, in the privates as Agent Coulsen asks: "Who the hell is darkseid?" I just don't.

 

We could also bring Dracula and Wolfman back. After all, they fought Spidey!

 

Wait. You're right. That would make for a much more dynamic world. Let's do it.

 

See, to me that sounds awesome. Well, not the goosing and deep french kissing, but everything else. I'm excited by seeing characters with radically different backgrounds interacting. IMO that's one of the most appealing features of the super-hero comic: it allows the blending of elements from diverse genres in a shared continuity, like almost nothing else.

 

OTOH you absolutely have the right not to like that or want to see it, and to ask for forms that appeal to you. Just let those of us who do have our fun.

[Starlord]

Hi Thor, how ya doin'?

 

WOOOHOOOO!

[Old Man]

[L. Marcus]

Moly holeys.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Even Catwoman made money, kinda.  Such a horrible film.

[Vondy]

Just let those of us who do have our fun.

 

I never said you shouldn't have fun or enjoy it.

 

I said I don't enjoy it and why. That's it.

 

People always take it personally if you don't share their tastes. Its dumb.

 

And, when different kinds of characters interact well, its great.

 

They often don't for thematic and stylistic reasons, but that's a separate issue.

 

Nor did I say I don't like spandex'd gods.

 

They're fine for me in small doses. I enjoy them as popcorn films.

 

My main issue was the whitewolfian crapfest meta-plot requiring one to watch all of them.

 

I don't really want to watch every Marvel movie.

 

So, that's precisely what's not working for me. 

 

I'm not into every Marvel title or character. But, is anyone, really?

 

I take that back. I do know a guy who is.

 

We don't hang out.

[Burrito Boy]

Étienne d'Ambreville became Immortal.

 

 

(Guessing respectfully this would be a negative in Vondy's book)

Oh my, I actually know who Etienne d'Ambreville is. Does this mean I'm...a nerd?

[zslane]

That chart amply demonstrates that WB can't make a bona fide hit with any property other than Batman. Even Blade II, which did reasonably well, was a Marvel property distributed domestically by WB. Only the Batman films did better than Marvel's worst performer, The Incredible Hulk. That's just sad.

[death tribble]

Vondy said:-

When will Dungeon Master show up ?

 

You evil, evil man. Why must you inflict THAT nightmare on us ?

Now I have to go away and run several parties through the Tomb of Horrors just to cleanse the mind.

[death tribble]

Vondy said (paraphrased):-

I don't really want to watch every Marvel movie.

 

Unfortunately for you Disney own the licence so you no longer have a choice. The Dictat of Disney is that you WILL watch every film. You MUST watch every film.

Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.

[Bazza]

Joss Whedon wrote & directed the Avengers sequel stated that he wrote it for those only familiar with the previous Avengers film, no other Marvel film was required to enjoy it.

 

Also, each Marvel film is self contained and be able to be enjoyed on its own. Granted that is is more successful with some films than others. Marvel wanted scenes in Avengers Age Of Ultron that went against the vision of Whedons. Another example of studio-auteur clash is Ant-Man.

 

It absolutely enhances each Marvel film if you have seen all of them previously, but shouldn't be necessary. I'm pretty sure that familiarity for Captain America Civil War will make sense for those who have only seen the previous two films.

 

The objective of the Thanos meta-plot is for those who enjoy it, and is there to enchance the films (value add).

 

This being my understanding of how Marvel Studios is approaching the Marvel Cinematic Universe.

[Bazza]

Oh my, I actually know who Etienne d'Ambreville is. Does this mean I'm...a nerd?

it means we can be friends, maybe heroes.

 

[Lord Liaden]

I never said you shouldn't have fun or enjoy it.

 

I said I don't enjoy it and why. That's it.

 

People always take it personally if you don't share their tastes. Its dumb.

 

 

I never took it personally. I tried to make it very clear that I respected your right to ask for your preferences, and merely illustrate a different preference. If I didn't make that clear, I apologize.

[Vondy]

I never took it personally. I tried to make it very clear that I respected your right to ask for your preferences, and merely illustrate a different preference. If I didn't make that clear, I apologize.

 

It wasn't specifically your reaction I was referring to.

 

And, for that reason, I also apologize.

[Pattern Ghost]

That darn Canadian politeness is rubbing off. Someone get a disinfectant spray!