Ximenez Posted September 28, 2014 Report Share Posted September 28, 2014 I'm running a fantasy campaign where the characters start with 40+40 points. At that level, the difference between 2 SPD and 3 SPD is so huge that I introduced SPD of 1.5, 2.5, and 3.5 so that characters with above-average DEX can get some benefit without having to spend a relatively large number of points on SPD. I was wondering if anyone else has tried this, and how it worked, or if I'm just crazy (although you might think I'm crazy for running a campaign with normals in the first place!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted September 28, 2014 Report Share Posted September 28, 2014 System already covers fractional speed, since the cost is 10 for +1 SPD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted September 28, 2014 Report Share Posted September 28, 2014 ....... Okay, I'm confused. Start by telling us what edition you're using (I suspect 5th?) and then please tell us what you're talking about and how it works., I can think of at least three ways to implement a concept of "fractional SPD" or four if I include the way the rules actually worked by default before 6th edition. And you're probably thinking of something I haven't even thought of, Lucius Alexander The palindromedary buys a SPD of 12 on 10 or less Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinecone Posted September 28, 2014 Report Share Posted September 28, 2014 Far too simple! I buy Speed "4" then "+1 Spd, act (11)", +1 Spd act(11)...etc so I have a Speed of between 4 and 12 each Turn/Phase. The Chaos will convert you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndianaJoe3 Posted September 28, 2014 Report Share Posted September 28, 2014 You could do this by splitting everything into half-phases. For example, SPD 2 would get half-phases on Segments 3, 6, 9, and 12. However, only 6 and 12 could be used for attack actions. SPD 2.5 would go on 3/5/8/10/12 (same segments as SPD 5,but half-phases), but could only attack on 3/8/12. Aborts roll over to the next attack phase. You could also reduce the cost of SPD to 5 per, but keep movement and attack phases completely separate. That way a character could move at SPD 2, but attack at SPD 3 or 4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted September 29, 2014 Report Share Posted September 29, 2014 Or you could allow players to buy speed outside of the 2-4 range if you want more granularity in actions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ximenez Posted September 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 29, 2014 Greywind, I'm implementing this in a game where the characters are built on 40+40 points. Nobody can afford higher than SPD 3 to start. Yes, I'm using 5th ed. A person with SPD 2.5 goes on segment 12 like everybody else (in the rules I have learned, anyway). In the next phase, they go on segments 5 and 10, and get recovery after 12 like everyone else. The phase after that, they go on segments 3, 8, and 12. Repeat as necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted September 29, 2014 Report Share Posted September 29, 2014 Then reduce the cost of speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted September 29, 2014 Report Share Posted September 29, 2014 Yes, I'm using 5th ed. In that case, are you aware that if a character has, for example, DEX of 14, then a SPD of 3 costs them only 6 pts, NOT 10? And I was right, your implementation is nothing I thought of. Let us know how it works. Lucius Alexander The palindromedary wonders if I can build Brother Rose on 40 +40 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted September 29, 2014 Report Share Posted September 29, 2014 Greywind, I'm implementing this in a game where the characters are built on 40+40 points. Nobody can afford higher than SPD 3 to start. DEX 14 is 12 pts Then SPD 4 is 16 pts It's not impossible on forty plus forty. Lucius Alexander In fact, I created such a character, but the palindromedary chewed it up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted September 29, 2014 Report Share Posted September 29, 2014 Its interesting, and I could see it being a useful device. Since most combats only last 2-3 turns anyway, getting that extra phase the next turn would be almost like an Aid based on watching combat: you just get better at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NuSoardGraphite Posted September 29, 2014 Report Share Posted September 29, 2014 Reduce the cost of speed to 5 points per +1 and increase you campaign maximum to between 6 and 8. or let it go all the way to 12, whichever you prefer. For my campaigns i observe racial maximums (usually spd 4 or 5) but allow higher for double the cost but i also charge the normal of +1 speed for 10 points but i also usually start with 75+75. typical PC speeds are usually between 3 and 5 with magic augmentation it can climb as high as 7 or 8 (but above 6 is rare) but my campaign is very high powered magic bordering on superheroic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ximenez Posted October 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2014 Yes, you could get exactly the same result by calculating SPD as 5+DEX/5, cutting the cost in half, and making the Normal Human Maximum 8, and that saves you the trouble of writing up a new table. It works fine, by the way, and doesn't create too much trouble. The only quirk is that people can get a recovery on a phase when they don't act, but that hasn't had a major impact on the way people fight. I don't have any philosophical reason for picking one over the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdamnhero Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 Greywind, I'm implementing this in a game where the characters are built on 40+40 points. Nobody can afford higher than SPD 3 to start.<snip> A person with SPD 2.5 goes on segment 12 like everybody else (in the rules I have learned, anyway). In the next phase, they go on segments 5 and 10, and get recovery after 12 like everyone else. The phase after that, they go on segments 3, 8, and 12. Repeat as necessary. Nope, haven't seen that one before, so points for originality. Closest I've come is the NPC who has extra SPD with the Limitation "Only To Attack With ____." But I typically only allow if for NPCs if it fits a specific concept, like the 4-armed brawler or the mentalist who can think faster than he moves. My first thought is to just give everyone an extra 10 points to play with, or give them SPD 3 as a baseline for free. Or just ditch the Speed Chart entirely - it's not really designed for games at that low a level, and getting a REC after every other action could make fights drag on forever. Assuming you don't want to do that and like having their SPDs vary from turn to turn, my second thought is it depends on how long combats tend to last: if most combats only last 1 Turn (which at that low power level is possible) then having an extra Phase on Turn 2, won't matter. Even if combats tend to run for 3 turns, you still only get one extra attack, so I'm not sure how much I'd pay for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 Then reduce the cost of speed. Reduce the cost of speed to 5 points per +1 and increase you campaign maximum to between 6 and 8. or let it go all the way to 12, whichever you prefer. For my campaigns i observe racial maximums (usually spd 4 or 5) but allow higher for double the cost but i also charge the normal of +1 speed for 10 points but i also usually start with 75+75. typical PC speeds are usually between 3 and 5 with magic augmentation it can climb as high as 7 or 8 (but above 6 is rare) but my campaign is very high powered magic bordering on superheroic. KISS is propably the best solution here. You want more granular speed, double the free SPD from dex (by halving the devisor) and half the cost per SPD point. More granular SPD for the same point costs for SPD. Prices are a sugestion. If changing the price for one thing makes the game easier, more intuitive or granular, it is better then writing up a several pages doctorate on how to interpret factrional SPD. In 6E it is explicitly mentioned that the pricing of stuff like "swimming" and "flight" might not hold up to all campaigns: If you play a underwater campaign you could easily make swimming cost as much as flight (because under water swimming is flight). In turn flight could be as cheap as swimming by default, since getting to the air in a sub-surface evironment is as hard as finding water in a land-dweller campaign. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted October 18, 2014 Report Share Posted October 18, 2014 It think the .5 speed thing creates granularity with significantly less hassle than anything else suggested here. It doesn't require any re-costing or redesigning, just an alternating set of two different speeds every other turn. I like it, its simple, elegant, and interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted October 19, 2014 Report Share Posted October 19, 2014 It think the .5 speed thing creates granularity with significantly less hassle than anything else suggested here. It doesn't require any re-costing or redesigning, just an alternating set of two different speeds every other turn. I like it, its simple, elegant, and interesting. "Speed costs half as much and you get twice as much free" (that is the full rule) vs. "You have two speeds that you have to alternate between turns and have to both keep in mind". (that is the short, abreviated rule; full rule could be about 1 page long with all special cases covered; not to mention the cocentration to actually memorize that in combat). I don't see how the solution with the much more complex writeup can be the "simpler and more elegant" one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ndreare Posted October 19, 2014 Report Share Posted October 19, 2014 Personally Christopher the 0.5 speed system proposed would be frustrating for me as a G GM and all of my players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted October 19, 2014 Report Share Posted October 19, 2014 I dunno, alternating turns with different speeds is a little work for the GM but not particularly troublesome, to me. I find the solution quite simple and effective at giving a slightly different feel and more granularity to the speed chart. Plus, its a halfway step to the next speed; 5 points is a nice goal for experience spent and it has tangible results. 10 takes a while to gain and as you put points into it, there's no sense of accomplishment until that 10th point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmjalund Posted October 19, 2014 Report Share Posted October 19, 2014 one way .5 speed is simplere, is that it only affects those who choose it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted November 14, 2014 Report Share Posted November 14, 2014 Buy Speed with an activation roll. Each PS 12 you roll the activation and, if you make it, you get the extra SPD (and act on the appropriate phases) for that turn. This makes fractional SPD work reasonably well, mixes up the order in which characters act from turn to turn and is simple enough to actually run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prestidigitator Posted November 18, 2014 Report Share Posted November 18, 2014 I've been known to do very wacky things with the Speed Chart, such as using the Speed Chart as a set of durations between actions rather than a fixed schedule, and rolling 2d6 to determine the Segment of your first Phase, adding 1d3 or 1d6 to the offset of your next Phase after significant effects like Stunning, etc. One of the things I've played with is "fractional" Speeds, but usually implemented by having an ongoing count of Segments (from 0 to positive infinity) rather than a clock-like schedule. "Post-12 Recovery," can happen after every Segment number that is divisible by X (standard would be 12). You can, in effect, get fractional Speeds by scaling the duration between Phases and Recoveries. For example, if you wanted increments of 0.5 Speed, multiply everything by 2. Disclaimer: I'm a programmer with no aversion to computer-aided initiative tracking, so YMMV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdamnhero Posted November 18, 2014 Report Share Posted November 18, 2014 I've been known to do very wacky things with the Speed Chart, such as using the Speed Chart as a set of durations between actions rather than a fixed schedule, and rolling 2d6 to determine the Segment of your first Phase, adding 1d3 or 1d6 to the offset of your next Phase after significant effects like Stunning, etc. Didn't Aftermath do something similar? Random initiative, and then add your reaction time stat to determine how soon you can take your next action. An interesting idea; I found it a little over-complicated, but I only played Aftermath a couple of times so maybe I just didn't play it enough to get used to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prestidigitator Posted November 18, 2014 Report Share Posted November 18, 2014 Didn't Aftermath do something similar? Random initiative, and then add your reaction time stat to determine how soon you can take your next action. An interesting idea; I found it a little over-complicated, but I only played Aftermath a couple of times so maybe I just didn't play it enough to get used to it. Don't know. Never played Aftermath. I'll have to try it sometime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted November 18, 2014 Report Share Posted November 18, 2014 I toyed with an alternate system (which I never tried) allowing people moves in the turn ala action points rather than set times to move. I concluded that everyone would move right away and then the rest of the turn sit around waiting for phase 12. For its faults (rigid regularity, predictability, etc) the speed chart really does work very well and I like it quite a bit. It allows some amazingly tactical moves if you know how and it does represent better the way some with greater training and personal ability can move better than others in combat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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