What are the most difficult characters to build?

[Stacie.Winters]

I am rediscovering Hero System again... just got my 6E Core books in the mail and I have been mulling over wanting to create some things for this game but it will be a while... and as I am just getting back into this game after a Long break... I am approaching this as if I am a new GM to this game so while I am reading the books and getting to know the system yet I am hoping that I will get some advice and suggestions about the Power Creation system for this game and one big way to learn about a game I think it to learn from the experts what kinds of character's are difficult to make so without further ado...

 

What kinds of characters are most difficult to build? This question leads to a second question meaning... what should a new GM using this game for a Supers campaign look out for with regards to how powers can be made and are there some types of powers/characters that would just be a really bad idea to allow into the game?

 

The last time I played any Hero was when 5th edition came out.

[Hyper-Man]

Power Mimics/leaches like Marvel's Rogue & Super Adaptiod and DC's Parasite and Amazo are some of the most complicated constructions as they pretty much demand the use of the potential broken combination of a VPP of Multiforms.  In most cases they are the kind of concepts that should remain NPC only as a player wanting to build a Rogue inspired superhero would otherwise monopolize a GM's time during an adventure constantly discovering 'new' abilities every time they use 'their' power.

 

Another situation that has little support in the published material is the swappable kit for superheroes.  If you were running a heroic level military based campaign it would be common practice to allow the PC's to change out their carried items (paid for with an equipment Perk and/or money) between adventures or any time their characters return to 'base'.  If player wants to do that in a superhero game (think Batman's Utility Belt) where they can only carry a limited number of different belt items (like 10-15 different Framework Slots) but the variety of items can be switched around any time they return to their base (the Batcave in this example).  Multipower is out because the cost spent on individual slots (usually 1 Real Point each) plus the Multipower Reserve will exceed the cost of a similarly capable VPP built with No Skill Roll Required & 0 Phase to change (the very badly named "Cosmic Advantage" combo).  Since The VPP is already described as "Like a Multipower with an infinite number of slots" it's the perfect starting point. It just requires a VPP Only Limitation to reflect the maximum "Adventure load" of slots that can be carried at one time (most built with Charges).  It also clearly demonstrates that Batman's Utility Belt essentially functions as his 'spell components' for a non-magical sfx Vanican based spell casting ability (like a D&D Wizard).

[Hyper-Man]

Speedsters as PC's (if you even want to allow them) require careful consideration at campaign start since whatever the campaign 'average' SPEED is becomes a minimum 'buy-in' requirement for a Speedster (the higher the average, the less Points the character has for more interesting Powers).  Some of the suggested solutions are to either cap SPD for all non-speedsters or assign 'Schtick' limits that only one PC of each archtype can acheive (example - I've created several JLA members as starting PC's on 400 points where all have a 4 SPD except for Flash with a 6 SPD).

[assault]

I treat speedsters as a variant kind of martial artist. They move (have higher SPD) a bit more often than everyone else, they go first, and are a bit less capable of taking a hit than the "average" character. Or not.

 

They have really good movement powers, and go first, but otherwise they're just a martial artist with fewer skills.

[Ninja-Bear]

Also one point about speedsters and speed characteristic in general is that a character with higher speed has more phases to act which can leave other players to grumble a bit.

[Crusher Bob]

It's possible to make a speedster with a 'normal' speed by doing things like buying high skill levels (so you can do task quickly), having area of effects (I punch everyone around) and similar tricks. 

 

Another type of character that is potentially difficult to do in hero is one whose main 'power' is clever use of an otherwise weak power.

 

Examples are JLA Batman and Skitter (from Worm)  But once you realize that 'clever use of a weak power to get a strong effect is just a decriptor / special effect of a strong power, then you'll have a much less difficult time.

 

---------

 

For those of you who aren't familiar with Worm, Skitters power is to control insects, which doesn't sound that impressive, but in Champions terms her powerset looks something like:

 

Only when insects are present (-1/4)

megascale: (~200-400 meter radius)

 

megascale AOE Partially penetrating rapid targeting clairsentience / partially penetrating rapid targeting ranged touch/hearing

megascale AOE selective indirect change environment / images

megascale AOE selective indirect entangle (pre-woven spider slik getting attached to you)

megascale AOE selective indirect penetrating attacks (biting bugs) possibly with linked damage over time (poisonous bugs)

megascale AOE selective indirect NND attacks (bugs dipped in capsicum and crawling into sensitive places)

megascale AOE selective indirect NND does body attacks (bugs securing themselves in your lungs with spider silk)

 

Build in Champions, Skitter is one of those characters that makes the GM go, "No, no, NO!" and a great candidate for one of Hyper-mans sample characters who are more constrained by their CvK than what their raw powers allow them to do.

[Ninja-Bear]

Also Deathlok type builds whereas the character has two minds and certain skills/abilities are hindered if one mind is out of comission. In Deathloks case when the computer was offline, he couldn't fight out of a wet paper bag.

[Grailknight]

Gestalt characters like Firestorm or Infinity Man where multiple people combine into one. To do it right you have to link multiform and duplication and account for the lesser bodies disappearing and possibly teleporting back and forth.

[Greywind]

Also Deathlok type builds whereas the character has two minds and certain skills/abilities are hindered if one mind is out of comission. In Deathloks case when the computer was offline, he couldn't fight out of a wet paper bag.

 

 

Gestalt characters like Firestorm or Infinity Man where multiple people combine into one. To do it right you have to link multiform and duplication and account for the lesser bodies disappearing and possibly teleporting back and forth.

 

I'm not seeing either as particularly difficult. Just a matter of limitations and complications.

[Ninja-Bear]

Well Greywind I would be estastic to see your take on Deathlok. (P.s. I could be complicating him)

[Greywind]

Take everything that he gets from the computer link and put a -0 / -1/4 Limitation on it that it is susceptible to EMP effects and call it good. The GM decides what falls under the EMP effects.

[massey]

I'd say the most difficult characters to build are those that don't have any obvious combat utility.  Building Batman is not that hard.  Building Mr. Miracle ("I'm an escape artist!") and having him be useful, that's the trick.

[Hyper-Man]

I'd say the most difficult characters to build are those that don't have any obvious combat utility.  Building Batman is not that hard.  Building Mr. Miracle ("I'm an escape artist!") and having him be useful, that's the trick.

 

Mr. Miracle would just have less Martial Arts and detective related skills and access to higher tech (meaning a bigger VPP for his version of a utility belt/costume).  Most of his abilities are based around the idea of getting away.  Instead of damage dealing attacks he would have a lot more entangles, smoke/darkness and other misdirection based abilities.  Squeezing in a 'Mother Box' would probably be the hardest as they have been shown to have abilities even a GL Ring can't duplicate.

[assault]

Not difficult at all, in Mr Miracle's case. He has more gadgets that you can poke a stick at, including weapons, and he can punch you in the face.

 

More generally, characters like Air Wave ("Amazing how far you can travel on a knuckle!") can be treated at martial artists, with or without combat effective gadgets.

 

I treat them as part of what I consider a general category of "Mystery Men/Women", that is, all the characters that "don't have superpowers".

[megaplayboy]

Characters who can have several useful powers going at the same time.

 

 

 

 

Master villains can actually be harder to write up, because you have to make them formidable but beatable. Too weak and the heroes romp all over them. Too strong and the heroes are laid out in a turn or less.

[Ninja-Bear]

Take everything that he gets from the computer link and put a -0 / -1/4 Limitation on it that it is susceptible to EMP effects and call it good. The GM decides what falls under the EMP effects.

Interesting thanks

[phydaux]

Ones that AREN'T min-max'ed munchkins.

 

They MUST be hard to build.  None of my players can seem to come up with one.

[bigdamnhero]

What kinds of characters are most difficult to build? This question leads to a second question meaning... what should a new GM using this game for a Supers campaign look out for with regards to how powers can be made and are there some types of powers/characters that would just be a really bad idea to allow into the game?

I love VPPs, but mishandled they can break a game quicker than a 5ed-vs-6ed debate. If you require the player to create all his VPP slots ahead of time, then swapping them out can be fairly simple. But if the player wants to just make stuff up on the fly, that has the potential to be completely unbalancing while simultaneously slowing the game down to a crawl while the player wrestles with math. It also can lead to the VPP player stepping on another characters' shtick: it's frustrating to have spent your precious character points on a special unique ability, only to have VPP Man say "I can whip up a gadget/spell/whatever to do that!" So make sure you've thought it through.

 

Re speedsters: the thing about speedsters that can be frustrating to other players: 1) they get to go so much more often than other players. Yeah they paid boucoup points for it, but it can still be a drag to watch someone get twice as many turns as you. I try to limit speedsters' SPDs to no more than 2 above the rest of the group. Also 2) they can be damn near impossible to hit. (Which of course is why god created Area Of Effect Attacks.)

 

Any character with a lot of Useable As Attack Powers should be considered a 5-way intersection of Stop Signs. Can be fun, but proceed with extreme caution.

[massey]

Attacks with a lot of advantages can very quickly get out of hand.  They'll either be totally worthless or game breakingly powerful.  Anything that has more than a +2 advantage should be scrutinized very very closely.  Once you start getting into +4 or +5 in advantages you should almost just say "no" automatically.