Critique a Character - Hardcase, Cyborg Super-Soldier

[Hyper-Man]

Here is an updated PDF.

 

Mostly just corrected the name so far, and put a x16 Maximum Points on the Absorption.  2 STUN, 5 END per hit, but up to 32 STUN, 80 END absorbed total (and still only restores to starting values.)

 

I think you are still trying to do too much with this build.  The investment in Skills, Talents and Perks is only 35 points less than my Batman. 

 

Conceptually It's like you want a minor Superman & Batman at the same time. You need to pick one or the other or reduce both.  It's like going for the Avengers movie version of Iron Man in a starting build budget. It's not pretty.  A starting build Tony Stark is not going to have a great suit of armor (see the 1st armor from his 1st movie).

[Hyper-Man]

Sounds iffy to me at best, particularly since the power already has the Limitation that it automatically shuts off in the presence of Kryptonite or under a red sun.  I'd be more inclined to let it slide if I could think of a single instance of a published character who took a similar Limitation -- but still and all, it's a decent attempt, and could easily be fixed...

 

From my the Classic JLA thread in my sig:

http://www.herogames.com/forums/index.php?/topic/64115-the-classic-justice-league-starting-members-on-350-points/?p=1944536

 

Re: The Classic Justice League starting members on 350 points Superman has often been disadvantaged by his Resistant Defenses being always on - it increases the challenge of maintaining his secret ID. Whether that's good enough for the limitation in my game, or your game, may vary, but it's certainly come up enough in some eras of the comics to merit a -1/4. Power Girl nearly died in an old JLE because no one could operate on her to deal with internal injuries. That seems like a limitation in a more combat-driven game where maintaining your secret ID isn't often a focus of the game.

[Soleil Noir]

Well, I'd call that the "Requires Specialized Medical Attention" Physical Complication that was in the 5th Edition Champions sourcebook, but everybody has their own opinion on the best way to handle it -- whenever possible I look for a precedent from a previously published character, just because it's less likely to be rejected by the GM if it's already "canon" for the HERO System...

[Kraven Kor]

I think you are still trying to do too much with this build.  The investment in Skills, Talents and Perks is only 35 points less than my Batman. 

 

Conceptually It's like you want a minor Superman & Batman at the same time. You need to pick one or the other or reduce both.  It's like going for the Avengers movie version of Iron Man in a starting build budget. It's not pretty.  A starting build Tony Stark is not going to have a great suit of armor (see the 1st armor from his 1st movie).

 

So far as end results, maybe, but that isn't the intent.

 

The intent is, again, to build a well-rounded, but not overpowered, jack-of-all-trades cybernetic super-soldier.  

 

A former Special Forces Soldier who got turned into a Cyborg Killing Machine.

 

Plenty can hit the cutting room floor, I'm sure, but the "fluff" stuff is, again, very important - to me - to reflect the kind of 'basic stuff' a cyborg or the terminator would have.

[Kraven Kor]

LOL.

 

If I put all the "illegal" stuff outside the VPP, and completely remove the offensive powers MP...  I need to shave 21 points off to get to 400.

 

Just too funny that the fluff / flavor stuff costs more than the 10 DC attack MP.

[Hyper-Man]

I'll echo another poster's question about the 3 Combat Skill Levels on a character with an otherwise ordinary 3 OCV.   I would recommend something similar to what I did with Batman.  Have a decent OCV and DCV, buy 1 or 2 Overall Levels (which have the added benefit of working with all of the skills the character has & being usable with Dive For Cover. Something other CSL's cannot do) as well as 1 or 2 cheaper CSL's in a specific arena (Martial Arts, Guns, etc..).

[Kraven Kor]

I'll echo another poster's question about the 3 Combat Skill Levels on a character with an otherwise ordinary 3 OCV.   I would recommend something similar to what I did with Batman.  Have a decent OCV and DCV, buy 1 or 2 Overall Levels (which have the added benefit of working with all of the skills the character has & being usable with Dive For Cover. Something other CSL's cannot do) as well as 1 or 2 cheaper CSL's in a specific arena (Martial Arts, Guns, etc..).

 

I see what you are saying, I do, but I have no idea where I would get the points.  8+ CV is much rarer in 6E now that DEX and CV are split, and raw CV is expensive.  

 

As it stands, I have +1 Overall Skill Level (in current build I'm playing with trying to get "illegal" stuff out of the MP) and +3 CSL's for All Combat, and then Martial Maneuvers, which should enable me to have 7/8 CV for most situations.

 

Hardcase is not meant to be a Martial Artist or Blaster with an insane CV.  More of a jack-of-all-trades brick.

 

Hell, the only thing he is truly good at, with this build, is getting his butt kicked and not letting that stop him, and then being a skill-based detective sort.  His attacks are 50 AP, 10 DC's, and he isn't stacking 20 rPD with 75% Damage Reduction or anything.  He is far from impervious, but tough, hard to STUN / KO / Kill, has some Power Defense and Mental Defense, and then a handful of perception based powers and other "onboard computer" stuff.

[Kraven Kor]

And are there any similar-ish characters to compare to so far as official builds?

[Kraven Kor]

OK here is a "more legal" version.

 

Basically had to lose every single offensive thing to be able to squeeze on the fluff / concept powers

 

No arm cannon, no blades, no blasters, and a much smaller STR boost to 40 max.

 

Would really love a legal way to squeeze on both the "stuff that cyborgs should have" like enhanced senses and such; while still being a lite-weight brick.

 

Note that I added insane amounts of Weapon Proficiencies to reflect militarty training and be able to use stuff he might pick up; and that I could come up with about 20 points if the WF and TF skill entries would never come into play.

Hardcase 6E - Legal.pdf

[Kraven Kor]

And then here is a version for if the TF / WF stuff is unnecessary; removed UV Vision, reduced PER bonus, and was able to add the MP back in.  Note lower resistant defenses and thus defenses overall on both of the "legal" versions; thus far.  Still tinkering.

Hardcase 6E - Legal 2.pdf

[Greywind]

3.  I'll have to check into that.  That seems...  a lot of needless paperwork / tracking for what is ostensibly meant to be "healing."

 

Then buy healing?

[Tasha]

Since all of Hardcase's powers are cybernetic. Perhaps Unified Power (Cybernetics) would be a better limitation than IIF or Restrainable.

Assuming a DC 12 average game. The character is quite a bit light in both DCV and Defences. With his CV I would expect PD and ED around 30 (half resistant).Con is a smidge high. He could get a way with a 25 Con or as little as a 23. With current defences he's a 2 shot wonder. Bricks should be tougher than that IMHO. 67 Stun would allow him to take average stun hits. with his resistant def low he will take body from KA's on an average roll. He will get hit alot.

The Senses Multipower is Cheesetastic, but not entirely bad. If this character was being presented to me, I would allow it but with the understanding that if it proves to be unbalancing or too annoying I would disallow it in favor of buying the senses outright. The MP would be more acceptable if the senses were attachments that could be switched out at the base or with at least a minute to an hour to switch. (A VPP with those limits would be ok as well).Also some of the items in the MP seems to be excessive, to have a power. I can see the cohesive whole, but not how/why all of those abilities would be ones that could only work one at a time.

[Black Ops]

Tasha puts up a good argument.

I have to agree that on my table you would be not allowed to use either the restrainable or the Focus for the Cybernetics. As others started befote: You can`t be really seperated from it.

But then I am not your GM.

[Tasha]

Tasha puts up a good argument.

I have to agree that on my table you would be not allowed to use either the restrainable or the Focus for the Cybernetics. As others started befote: You can`t be really seperated from it.

But then I am not your GM.

If you had focus on the Cybernetics by defination they would be things that could/would be easyish to remove and wouldn't require a surgeon to do so. Something Cybernetic abilities would be weird to have as a focus, others would be ok.

 

This is another character that proves to me that 400pp might be a bit too stingy for a typical DC 12 Champions Game.

[assault]

This is another character that proves to me that 400pp might be a bit too stingy for a typical DC 12 Champions Game.

 

And this is why I have spent the less useful part of my afternoon designing 400 point 6e characters... I like a challenge.

[Kraven Kor]

Again:  Is there an official character along the same lines - Cyborg / Bionic Man - I could look at to see the "official" way to build such?

 

But yes, 400 points is *really hard* to make a well-rounded character with (yet surprisingly easy to make an overpowered one-hit wonder.)

[Kraven Kor]

Re: Unified Power

 

I'm not sure I like that idea; since the idea with Unified Power is if one power is drained or disabled or whatever, they all are, yes?

 

For now, I'm trying to see what I can do to drop at least the Cybernetics advantage and get defenses back up to 20 rPD or so.

[Kraven Kor]

Well, if it is good enough for superman, should I put "Always On" on Armor and DE Slots and such?

[Kraven Kor]

OK.

 

Removed the IIF and the "Cybernetics" Custom Modifier.

Dropped UT and some other stuff, reduced some of the sensory stuff, added the "Always On" to the armor (for now - again, if good enough for Supes, good enough for me, until told otherwise...)  Raised defenses a touch in the process - 25 Normal / 15 Resistant.

 

Hardcase v. Umpteen-dot-Three

Hardcase 6E - Legal 3.pdf

[Kraven Kor]

Oh and the restrainable deal is still on some powers; but mostly the sensory stuff, and the offensive multipower.  Most of his core powers (defenses, base strength and such) are not restrainable and never were.

[Tasha]

I find that the more stingy the powerpoint limit, the more cheese you see on each character sheet. Foci, OIAID and many other limitations that are actually fairly rare in super's comics all come out and are on each power.

[drunkonduty]

But yes, 400 points is *really hard* to make a well-rounded character with (yet surprisingly easy to make an overpowered one-hit wonder.)

 

 

Champions, since 4th Ed anyway, has always made it cheaper to buy Superman than Batman. It's just the way it's been designed.

 

The character I've just started playing has been spending all his XP expanding on the lawyer skills and general knowledge skills he should have started with because I wanted a guy with a variety of powers and skills are SO expensive. (Also, I don't feel a need for a radiation accident or anything when buying skills. Increasing powers, on the other hand, should happen slowly over time, especially for this character concept who's a reluctant hero. But this is drifting off topic.)

[Armature]

Your trying to build a two story house when you only have enough materials for a single story.

 

Remove some of the abilities and save them for future "upgrades" he wants.

Like, remove healing and longevity. Later he can get a "Reconstructive Nanites" implant that will give him those powers. You can remove the Eidetic Memory and lightning calculated until he can get that Neural interface processor he wants.

Cutting back a little will give you room to grow, but more importantly it will give you the points you will need to make this character relevant in a game.

 

Of course another option is to make some systems Mark 2 versions. (Mark 1 being his original organic parts.) being new prototype systems they are prone to malfunction occasionally.

Give them the "Requires a roll" limitation with a 11- activation roll for a -1/2 mod. Or if you want to risk it jamming and not working sometimes, add "Jammed" for a -1 limitation.

 

"As you enter the dark room your Mark II optic implants attempt to switch to infrared. For a split second they start to work, then all goes black accept the ERROR 104 code that flashes for a second. A moment later the software manage's to switch to lowlight vision instead. Though not as effective, at least it didn't glitch. You make a mental note to have that pencil neck geek go over the code again when you have the chance."

 

You may not think the night vision/infrared is worth the points, but all the DC's in the world won't matter if you can't see your opponent to shoot at.

Or when that perp is trying to ditch you on foot on a cold night, his foot prints are a glowing breadcrumb trail with thermal vision.

 

Just my thoughts. At 400pts, your not going to be a finished product. You've learned some tricks, but there are probably a lot of different tricks you can pull with your powers. Or in your case, you have some upgrades, but not all the ones you want. But, some day, you just might.

[Hyper-Man]

Champions, since 4th Ed anyway, has always made it cheaper to buy Superman than Batman. It's just the way it's been designed.

 

...

 

I think several posters on this forum will disagree with that sentiment.  Before I started my JLA350 thread several years ago it was generally assumed that a recognizable version of Superman (with aspects of most if not all his various abilities) was impossible to do on starting character points.  ANY character concept can be squeezed into starting character points.  The key is making a starting version of the character.  That may sound redundant but it's vitally importatnt that you acknowledge that a starting version is not always going to match your first vision of the character.  I had a similar issue with creating Wonder Woman.  Superrman and Batman were a breeze compared to her because, unlike Superman, she has no significant weaknesses (besides not being bulletproof).  Eventually her power of flight and extra strength could be updated to personal (non-focus) abilities. But like the character's journey in the Justice League Animated Series (who didn't get the ability to force truthful answers with her lasso until her powers were fully activated by her mother) it will take time and experience.

[Tasha]

in 1st -5th edition it's always been cheaper to be a Brick than any other archetype. A Brick gets more stuff out of Figured Characteristics than any other character type. Thankfully that's been fixed in 6e.

 

DC heroes are always hard to write up in Hero. Hero does Marvel Heroes very well, but tends to stumble on Superheroic Gods like WonderWoman, Batman, Superman etc. You can write up homages that kind of touch on those heroes, but that kind of power tends to be VERY expensive to buy in Hero.