Non-focus spellbooks

[mhd]

Fiddling with magic systems again, and I couldn't find any "previous art" to one weird thought I had: What if we treat spell-books like regular equipment, e.g. weapons?

 

In your usual quasi-Vancian HERO adaption, you'll use a spellbook as an focus needed to "recharge". Or maybe a spell library as some generic requirement for your VPP, not necessarily all on hand. But what if we actually put the power into the spellbooks themselves? Just like a warrior doesn't have to pay the 15 points for his greatsword (or even a larger sum for his Greatsword of Ogre Decapitation), your aspiring mage wouldn't have to pay for the Sleep and Fireball in the heavy tome he has to lug about all the time.

 

And just like a warrior isn't just defined by his equipment, it really matters what you do with said book, i.e. what additional abilities you've got (similar to CSLs and MAs).

 

The first thing that would come to mind is the basic enabling ability. For most campaigns it probably doesn't make sense that everyone can cast every spell (or even any spell), so some keystone power would be useful.

Maybe it's a "read magic" ability/cantrip (Detect Meaning of Magical Writings?). Or the necessary mana to fuel it (Endurance Reserve)? Maybe you need a huuge brain to wrestle that spell into submission (all spells require Int >= AP or RP -> +X INT just for said purpose). Or maybe there's some Elder/demonic insanity drain involved (Power Defense to resist that). Or simply just a "Learned Wizard" perk...

 

Then we'll get to boosters. Great, now you can read that Galtian litany from your grimoire, but enemies rarely wait idly while you do that. So a Naked Advantage to buy off the Extra Time?

Possibly others to buy off other limitations or metamagically change some effects.

 

Finally it's quite likely that such wizards would still have some fixed powers, i.e. cantrips or more powerful spells they've learned to cast without requiring a book.

 

Any thoughts on that? If the prerequisite and the basic spell book limitations aren't too generous, I think this could be balanced enough.

[Ninja-Bear]

Isn't this sorta like the perk system of magic I've heard (but never seen). It could be done I think.

[Tasha]

We used to make the mage pay for the VPP, but not the weapons.

I would probably figure out how big of a pool the Mage would have and not make them pay for their Magic Pool. Just like the Non magic characters don't pay for their Weapons and armor. The Spell Book would be required for Changing spells. "Read Magic" would only be required to read someone else's spell book (your own spell book is written in a cypher known to you, your Teacher, and fellow students). Any Spells that the Caster wants outside of the Pool would have to be paid for. BTW they would need Magic Skill to cast Spells (Because I like the feel of that).

The key to keeping it balanced is to give non mages access to a pool of powerpoints that can be spent on "Feats" or Special Combat Abilities. Things like Rogue's hiding in plain sight (Invis based on Stealth). Otherwise the Casters would be able to have abilities that would allow them to dominate the game with their versiltity.

[NuSoardGraphite]

I dont really use a Vancian style magic system. i use more of a natural earth power/chi style magic system (complete with ley lines, nodes and nexus points etc)

 

However, i've considered using spellbooks as tools that give a bonus to casting spells of a particular category. the quality of a spellbook ranges from +1 to +5. as long as the mage studies from the book regularly (a number of hours per week minimum) then the character gains the bonus to cast magics of that type. if they go a number of weeks (determined by the gm) without studying their book, the bonus fades.

 

Also the spellbook can be used as a source for learning new spells. the higher the quality of the spellbook, the more powerful and rare spells can be learned from it.

 

Each book should be limited to a specific category of magic. examples include necromancy, pyromancy, alchemy, illusion, divination, summoning, druidry, animism, healing, etc.

 

Books arent only limited to mages. preistly professions can use them as well. these includ holy books, prayer books, sutras etc. any tome that can lead to a greater understanding of their spiritual traditions and enhance their ability to commune with their deity.

 

This shouldnt be limited to books either. Many different magical traditions have many different means of studying their crafts. druids can commune in a holy grove and gain insight to the magic of nature and gain temporary bonuses in this way. animists and witches could possess specific crystals that resonate with certain elements of their magick which will provide bonuses based on the purity of the crystal in their possession. (This also works with candles, herbs etc). necromancers can sacrifice creatures or blood to help power their magics gaining a bonus of +1 for every 2 body worth of damage to the sacrifice in question (including themselves if no other sacrifice is availavle) specific sacrificial victims can provide additional bonuses including virgins, children, mages, holy men, magical creatures, seventh sons, king's blood etc.

[Chris Goodwin]

There's a sample magic system in FH 6e (I'm pretty sure it's in 5e also) that does this, or almost this.  It uses Spell Familiarities and posits an INT Min for spells similar to STR Min for weapons.  I'm not sure what specifically it says about spell books, as my book's at home.  

[Markdoc]

Fiddling with magic systems again, and I couldn't find any "previous art" to one weird thought I had: What if we treat spell-books like regular equipment, e.g. weapons?

 

In your usual quasi-Vancian HERO adaption, you'll use a spellbook as an focus needed to "recharge". Or maybe a spell library as some generic requirement for your VPP, not necessarily all on hand. But what if we actually put the power into the spellbooks themselves? Just like a warrior doesn't have to pay the 15 points for his greatsword (or even a larger sum for his Greatsword of Ogre Decapitation), your aspiring mage wouldn't have to pay for the Sleep and Fireball in the heavy tome he has to lug about all the time.

 

Do your fighters start with a Greatsword of Ogre Decapitation? O is it something they find in the course of adventuring?

If the latter, see how your players who want to play mages react when told that they start with no spells, but have to adventure and hope they find something useful ...

 

cheers, Mark

[mhd]

Do your fighters start with a Greatsword of Ogre Decapitation? O is it something they find in the course of adventuring?

If the latter, see how your players who want to play mages react when told that they start with no spells, but have to adventure and hope they find something useful ...

Well, in my current campaign, they don't even start with a dagger, as they're all stranded on Dinosaur & Zombie Island. So that's not really a useful baseline.

 

But I'd envision that in a "normal" campaign starting out with a spellbook shouldn't be a problem, either. It all depends on the campaign style. For a highly Sword & Sorcery campaign seeking hidden tomes might actually be required, but if you're going the default D&D-ish High Fantasy path, you'll get a few spells in the beginning. But just like the fightey dude doesn't get his Vorpal Sword from above his family's mantlepiece, your fledgling apprentice won't enter his first adventure with Ebenzers Evocation of Everlasting Earthquakes.

 

This variant wouldn't make balancing fighters and wizards any more or less problematic.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Well, in my current campaign, they don't even start with a dagger, as they're all stranded on Dinosaur & Zombie Island. So that's not really a useful baseline.

 

But I'd envision that in a "normal" campaign starting out with a spellbook shouldn't be a problem, either. It all depends on the campaign style. For a highly Sword & Sorcery campaign seeking hidden tomes might actually be required, but if you're going the default D&D-ish High Fantasy path, you'll get a few spells in the beginning. But just like the fightey dude doesn't get his Vorpal Sword from above his family's mantlepiece, your fledgling apprentice won't enter his first adventure with Ebenzers Evocation of Everlasting Earthquakes.

 

This variant wouldn't make balancing fighters and wizards any more or less problematic.

I've never had a problem balancing Fighters, Rogues and Mages in my fantasy campaigns, because I have always supported special Talents for Fighters and Rogues that make them as effective as Spells do for Mages and Clerics. I feel it is very important to allow ALL the character types to be able to expand their specializations significantly during character advancement to make them the best at their field. Rogues being able to hide so well that they are essentially invisible and their ability to attack by surprise and gain bonus damage makes them dangerous. Fighters should be able to progress to the point that they can take on hoards of lesser foes and even more dangerous foes like war-trolls or death knights one-on-one. Special Talents are the great equalizer in this arena.

[mhd]

Yeah, I'm mostly worried about balancing it against other magic using traditions, especially ones that use VPPs or other "normal" methods. It doesn't look too bad, as what you save on initial points you'll lose in flexibility. It's not entirely different from an unarmed MA fighter vs. someone who just bought a greatsword.

[Kealios]

This may not be entirely on the same subject as this thread, but it is definitely similar.

 

I came across an interesting Limitation for building Fantasy spells that get around the OIF or other Foci Limitations (this was while I was reviewing a conversation on this forum about "broken" characters):

 

"Restrainable (only by means other than Grabs and Entangles; Spell Components Pouch; -1/4)"

 

I'm trying to envision how you would Restrain this spell as worded. Taking the Pouch would do it, but so would removing a Foci. "Other than..." is what is throwing me. I guess this is saying that yes, Grabs and Entangles would work, but there are other methods as well.

 

Does this Pouch not need to be refreshed, just accessible? Is this the "We assume the character stocks up in town without micromanaging small components" rule?