How do you handle using found weapons...?

[Ken Winland]

Howdy,

 

How do you handle a character picking up and using weapons?  A player grabbing the gun of a fallen police officer, the laser rifle from a downed VIPER agent, a kitchen knife, etc.

 

Do you make them pay points from the weapons if they use them more than once?  Do you stop them somehow from using them?  I can see an agent or weapon-based character buying a pool or attacks based on finding or picking up weapons, but what about the off-the-cuff use of a recovered weapon by a character?

 

Cheers,

 

Ken

[Greywind]

Allow them to use. If they pick up a cop's gun to use, the cop is going to want it back. If the cop dies, the force is going to want it back.

Anything and everything is usable during the segment in which it is acquired. After that, the Viper weapon will be taken as evidence, etc. If it becomes an ability the character wants regularly (HKA: OAF - handy item) then it needs to be accounted for or a special case (plot point) weapon only.

[phoenix240]

Generally, I allow characters to use weapons and equipment they acquire for as long as the scenario in question or until it can be written out of the story line. Criminal weapons are confiscated for evidence, advanced and or alien items breakdown, run out of charges, etc. If the player wants to keep them they have to pay points for them and I'll sometimes allow them to go into Experience debt for that purpose. Unpaid for equipment is treated as Heroic equipment in all ways including require Weapon Familiarities and other skills to properly use, causing encumbrance and in all respects being treated as if it has the "Real Item" disadvantage.

[Christopher]

The general idea from the Rulebooks I get is:

A character can use a found weapon/a weapon he got from a teammember for a specific scene. This simply falls under the "what not to spend points on" rule. As long as the Character(s) only do that for the specific segment it is okay.

But that is it, the one scene. The general rule is that "you cannot use what you did not spend points on".

 

If players start to overuse lending weapons, you can require them to buy "UOO" Advantage or stop doing it

If players start to overuse using found/lend weapons you could require them to have Weapon Familarity or suffer the usual -3 OCV (but in general I would not care about weapon familarities in Superheroic games). Note that those are easily paid points, so It might not be a longterm fix

 

It is important (for you and the oversuign player) to know the spirit behind that ruling: game balance. it is endagered from a two different points:

a. if a Character would regulary use found weapons, he would be using more points then he actually spend. Allowing this could quickly escalate.

b. Adherance to the game Caps. If Hulk could use Thors hammer, he would propably Smash the Damage Cap. The hammers "melee weapon" part is designed to bring Thor up to game Caps in Normal damage output. And Hulk is already at this cap barehanded.

60 STR Brick + 6-8 DC Melee Weapon = bye bye game banlance.

 

Now at the far end of the "use found/lend weapon" spectrum is the Character whose actual (combat) Shtick it is to "use whatever weapon he finds".

This character is neither covered by "What not to spend points on" rule (it happens way to regulary), nor with mere Weapon Familiarities (that are to way cheap for the effect he get's).

The only fair way would be to take the Mimic VPP (6E2 412) and modify it to work with aquired Weaponry. It has the advantage that the Character paid for his ability to use "whatever weapon he finds" properly.

 

A few downsides (and how they can be special-effected away):

The character needs time to change the VPP: Asume that is the time the Character needs to get familiar with the weapon. Maybe he even needs to come to terms with a simple mechanical Security lock on the weapon.

It the gun is a Multipower, only one attack can be copied/used: Asume that like the time to use the weapon in the first place, the character has to figure out how to change the firing modes as well.

No mater how often he used the gun of this villain, he still have to make all the rolls again: Asume the villain changed the security/way to change firing modes between adventures. This is a minor flaw in the VPP (you cannot buy specific powers bought inside the VPP to not require a roll/time to change).

 

Keep in mind there that if somebody uses a weapon, it will not be the 6 DC KA Military Rfile. Or a 8 DC Viper Blaster. But more around a 12 DC (Near the Cap) gun. And the 12 DC guns in superheroics rarely follow the same Scientific Principles, let alone design shemes. There is just no way to get 100% familiar with a stolen weapon - except for directly paying points for it.

[BhelliomRahl]

Generally I run Heroic games, so standard equipment is purchased in game with money.  If the Players acquire equipment during play depending on how they acquired them with determine what action I take.  If its bought legally the only cost is money.  If the item is spoils of battle then its free, but it might have repercussions; if the weapon is generic its usual fine but if the item is distinct then its an indication to anyone who is looking for the killer or the item itself that the Player was involved and depending on the people involved I might give the player a Hunted Complication (This is kept secret until the player realises what is happening - They get no points for the complication). 

 

If the items is powerful, there may be a point cost to fully activate the items powers; if the cost is not paid the items strength is reduced or treated as a normal example of the item.

[Tasha]

Howdy,

 

How do you handle a character picking up and using weapons?  A player grabbing the gun of a fallen police officer, the laser rifle from a downed VIPER agent, a kitchen knife, etc.

 

Do you make them pay points from the weapons if they use them more than once?  Do you stop them somehow from using them?  I can see an agent or weapon-based character buying a pool or attacks based on finding or picking up weapons, but what about the off-the-cuff use of a recovered weapon by a character?

 

Cheers,

 

Ken

There's nothing to stop a PC from picking up and using weapons. The Gun of a Fallen Police Officer or that VIPER gun are probably NOT as good as a PC's attacks. Unless the Cop or VIPER agent is using some Prototype weapon themselves that are on par with a PC's attacks or better. Perhaps using the VIPER Tripod Mounted Mega Blaster is what the PC needs to Help defeat the master Villain.

 

When the PC wants to continue to use that weapon across multiple adventures. Thats when the PC should pay for the weapon. Though if the PC is built badly enough that that Cop's Pistol or the Viper Agent's Blaster is really better than what the PC has. Well then perhaps the GM and the Player need to sit down and take a REAL look at the PC's build and fix what is wrong.

[assault]

The most likely case where this would be useful would be when the character's powers are unavailable. It's usually not wise to neutralise a character like this for very long, so the found weapon should only be useful for a while. Then you are in the territory Tasha was talking about.

 

Of course, sometimes a character might get hold of a superpower-grade weapon. This is particularly likely if it is the McGuffin of a scenario. Using it in this cases isn't any big deal. Retaining it afterwards usually is.

 

If a character really wants to use such a gizmo, a "radiation accident" scale character rewrite might be appropriate, basically swapping out some of the character's older abilities for some new ones.

 

Hmm... maybe increase the END cost on the older powers to discourage their use and free up points for the new powers... Or just drop them, and Never Speak Of Them Again. It happens all the time in the source material.

[Cassandra]

It would depend on the usefulness of the item in the story in question.

 

Let's say that the Hero takes a radio from one of the minions of the Villain.  The Hero would have had to defeat the minion so he has earned a reward by getting a device that would allow them to monitor enemy activity.  The usefulness of the radio would be limited to the amount of time it takes for the Villain to realize that the Hero was on the scene, and that some of his minions were missing.  The Villain would order his minions to switch to another frequency at that point, making the radio the Hero has now useless, unless the Hero has already paid for an appropriate skills like Cryptography or Systems Operation to keep the radio useful.

[Tasha]

Also, I find that players who's only RPG experience is with D&D and Clones. Are the players most likely to want to "loot" their defeated foes. They eventually get used to the idea that Champions isn't that kind of Genre.

[Chris Goodwin]

In a Champions game, once the fight is over most of that stuff is evidence, anyway.  The cops are going to haul it off (maybe for Top Men to examine) and you're never getting it back.  

[JmOz]

I did make a character once who was designed to steel items.  He basically had a VPP, with a lim that he could only use it for found gadgets (I kept a list, got up to about 30 lines, with some having multiple copies, so 10 viper blasters or what have you).

[Tasha]

In a Champions game, once the fight is over most of that stuff is evidence, anyway.  The cops are going to haul it off (maybe for Top Men to examine) and you're never getting it back.  

I usually allow the PCs to take some of the dangerous stuff as trophies. Esp if the PC is known to be the "Top Person" in that field. It's also a Genre appropriate trope for the Hero Team to have a Trophy room full of artifacts of their adventures.

[ned-kogar]

We had a team that had managed to chase a desolid thief villain off the planet, and - once he was gone - discovered his remarkable hoard of stolen stuff (artistic masterpieces, black ops tech, even an alien corpse). The villain had a gadget pool that allowed use of the stolen tech, but one PC (a street-level martial artist) was so taken with a particular 'ray gun' that he petitioned to take it and use it from then on.

 

It seemed like an in-character, narratively logical thing to allow, but the PC had no XP spare.

 

So, instead, I just balanced out the cost of the item (about 28 pts) with hidden Disadvantages/Complications (Hunted By a Black Ops agency, a Distinctive Features that gave him a weird energy signature, and a secret little radiation leak that was effectively a Susceptibility to each use of the gun).

 

It meant he got the fun of using it for a few adventures before realising that it was more trouble than it was worth. And story was born out of it, too. The other players all enjoyed this little side-plot of the 'ray gun's revenge'.

 

With more everyday items, I think the same principle could apply, with new Reputations, Hunteds or even a Psych Lim applying to a hero that suddenly starts carting round a Bushmaster M4.

 

It's almost like treating the item as a Package Deal/Template.

[Christopher]

It's almost like treating the item as a Package Deal/Template.

Just to make this clear from a rulespoint:

The complication part of a Package deal does not counter the cost of the package deal elements. 35 points worth of Powers/Characters and 25 points worth of Complicatiosn does not only cost you 10 Character points (35-25).

The pre 6E representation implied such a thing, but the rules clearly stated otherwise.

[ned-kogar]

Just to make this clear from a rulespoint:

The complication part of a Package deal does not counter the cost of the package deal elements. 35 points worth of Powers/Characters and 25 points worth of Complicatiosn does not only cost you 10 Character points (35-25).

The pre 6E representation implied such a thing, but the rules clearly stated otherwise.

 

Yeah, that's a good point, rules-wise, and perhaps it wasn't a very useful comparison.

 

But the mechanic of balancing a temporarily held bit of kit with some built-in temporary complications proved an enjoyable addition to thhe game.

[sinanju]

Allow them to use. If they pick up a cop's gun to use, the cop is going to want it back. If the cop dies, the force is going to want it back.

 

Anything and everything is usable during the segment in which it is acquired. After that, the Viper weapon will be taken as evidence, etc. If it becomes an ability the character wants regularly (HKA: OAF - handy item) then it needs to be accounted for or a special case (plot point) weapon only.

 

I'd change "during the segment in which it is acquired" to "for the duration of the current encounter" and that decribes my approach. If you disarm a guard upon your arrival on Skull Island and take his weapon, you can use it for that scene, and maybe against any other opponents in the immediate vicinity (already there or who arrive in response to trouble). But that's it. You can't carry it for the rest of the adventure on Skull Island in case of more guards elsewhere.

 

If you want to acquire a weapon from a guard (or whoever) early on and keep it, that's a character schtick that will have to paid for.

[Tasha]

I'd change "during the segment in which it is acquired" to "for the duration of the current encounter" and that decribes my approach. If you disarm a guard upon your arrival on Skull Island and take his weapon, you can use it for that scene, and maybe against any other opponents in the immediate vicinity (already there or who arrive in response to trouble). But that's it. You can't carry it for the rest of the adventure on Skull Island in case of more guards elsewhere.

 

If you want to acquire a weapon from a guard (or whoever) early on and keep it, that's a character schtick that will have to paid for.

I try to be "realistic" about this. If the PC picks up a Guard's blaster on Skull Island. I'll allow them to use the blaster for as long as they want (as long as the Blaster's charge holds up). They can even use it for the whole 6+ sessions they are on Skull Island if they like. Though at a certain point, I will ask the Player why their PC thinks they need the focus.

[Greywind]

I wasn't using segment as a game mechanic, but as a GM regulated period of time in which it would be acceptable for the character to have and keep said item. Whether it is for the current episode/issue, or the current story arc.

[lemming]

I did make a character once who was designed to steel items.  He basically had a VPP, with a lim that he could only use it for found gadgets (I kept a list, got up to about 30 lines, with some having multiple copies, so 10 viper blasters or what have you).

I had a character is a far future game named Scavenger.   Archeoligist who had a bunch of various foci from different people in the past plus some more recent aquisition.   Also done with a VPP.

"That?  Oh, that's just for display, I mean it's fully functional, but you'd have to be insane to use it." -pointing to some agent armor