dueling and ambush in the Hero System

[pandora]

Hello everybody,

i will be dm'ing a quite expert group of players in a superheroic campaign, and we decided to use the Hero System.

 

A problem I have noticed is the predictability of the SPD phase charts: everyone's move and initiative is predermined. To solve this, we introduced an optional rule of rolling 1d12 to establish the starting phase of the turn, and this looks quite fine (a speedy dude has more phases so he still has more chances to move first).

 

A problem emerges when dueling "one-on-one", or when a sudden face to face between two characters burst out (a frequent game situation): here the predictability of the phase system pretty much kills of the pathos of the event, as everyone knows when he will move and in a one on one situations the variables are very reduced so moving first constitutes a crucial advantage.

In our house system we had initiative rolls, so if the faster one had an advantage, dueling or suddenly hitting someone was still risky (and hence interesting in game terms).

 

I was wondering if anyone has brewed house rules for this kind of situation.

 

Another issue is ambush, also a very common action rpg situation. In a system with initiative, ambush is very easily simulated by giving to all ambushing or ambushed characters a bonus or malus to add or subtract from the INI roll... how do you simulate that in the HS? I was thinking of allowing the ambushing party to choose the starting phase of the round, but this does not allow granularity (as in an initiative system I could give +5 INI for a standard ambush, +1 for a sudden attack in an already tense situation, +8 for a carefully planned ambush with good hiding places, etc.)

 

thanks everyone for kind advice

 

[Steve Long]

Since this is addressed to "everybody" and clearly seems like a request for general advice and discussion, I've moved it to the "Discussion" board, where anyone can respond.

[Greywind]

If you've never used the system before , I'd suggest you play RAW before trying to adjust for any perceived problems before you start.

 

Start combat on Phase 12. That alone, along with the target taking double stun for being out of, and not expecting combat will give you your ambush effect.

[pandora]

well, not really (take in consideration that I'm not completely familiar with the system): if you start in phase 12 the movement order will be fixed, always the ones with higher DEX moving first. I think (and realistically it's like that) that the ambushers should have a real, strongly effective % to just move first.

 

also, beginning in phase 12 (instead than on a random phase), in a duel makes sure that the one with the most DEX just moves, granting a *radical* advantage.

[pandora]

Since this is addressed to "everybody" and clearly seems like a request for general advice and discussion, I've moved it to the "Discussion" board, where anyone can respond.

thanks, i just wasnt familiar with the forums, but of course an opinion of the game creator on the subject would be higly appreciated

[Beast]

Ambush generally means you have surprise and the rules give the attacker doing x2 stun vs the surprised

[psyber624]

Not to mention 1/2 DCV and 1/2 penalty for placed shots (if allowed in your campaign). Combined with the rules for Stunning ambushes can be incredibly effective. Since the Stun doubling applies BEFORE defenses this will almost always result in the target being STUNNED, and at 1/2 DCV you are highly unlikely to miss (unless your opponent greatly outclasses you).

 

As far as the predictability of combat in HERO do not forget the ability to "abort" to defensive moves. That can go a long way to reducing the effectiveness of higher SPD/Dex. Of course don't forget that SPD is expensive and if you greatly reduce the effectiveness of having a higher SPD (which allows you to act first and act more often) then you are making it less useful. Since the SPD chart is "back loaded" using the 1d12 system punishes higher SPD characters more than it does slower characters (Yes they may still be more likely to get more phases due to their higher SPD, but they are also more likely to LOOSE phases than low SPD characters and therefore it punishes them more than it does slower SPD players). Of course many GM's of the system highly recommend keeping everyone's SPD within a few points of each other which will reduce the problem (but also serves to reduce any "randomness" from random dice rolls as well).

 

If you want to induce randomness into the order of the turn I would highly advise trying to come up with a system that does not penalize those that pay for higher SPD/DEX. Some form of roll off where the number of dice is based upon your SPD or DEX or something might work better. After all if a player pays for higher SPD/DEX they should be able to go first, that's what they paid for after all.

[Greywind]

well, not really (take in consideration that I'm not completely familiar with the system): if you start in phase 12 the movement order will be fixed, always the ones with higher DEX moving first. I think (and realistically it's like that) that the ambushers should have a real, strongly effective % to just move first.

 

also, beginning in phase 12 (instead than on a random phase), in a duel makes sure that the one with the most DEX just moves, granting a *radical* advantage.

Combat doesn't begin until the ambusher chooses to attack. The ambushed isn't expecting combat unless they perceive the imminent danger.

 

I stand by what I said: if you are not familiar with the system, don't attempt to fix a perceived problem. Play the rules as written until you have a much better grasp of how the system works.

[Lucius]

well' date=' not really (take in consideration that I'm not completely familiar with the system): if you start in phase 12 the movement order will be fixed, always the ones with higher DEX moving first. I think (and realistically it's like that) that the ambushers should have a real, strongly effective % to just move first.[/quote']

 

On Segment 12, the ambushers move. Then the ambushers attack. And the ambush victims don't go second. They don't go AT ALL that phase, because they're surprised. This is of course assuming that they were totally taken off guard and did not even suspect the attack was coming. They stand there and take damage.

 

Then the ambushers roll a PRE attack, based off the highest PRE in the group, with bonuses for surprise, violent action, etc. as appropriate, and probably at least one extra +1d6 for being essentially a group rather than individual PRE attack. This simulates the "surprise" effect and could mean that some or all of the ambushed group lose yet another phase, a half phase, or at least are delayed and only act after the ambushers have another action.

 

There you have both your element of surprise and even a random factor.

 

also' date=' beginning in phase 12 (instead than on a random phase), in a duel makes sure that the one with the most DEX just moves, granting a *radical* advantage.[/quote']

 

I think you may be overestimating the advantage of first move. But yes, it is definitely an advantage.

 

The lower DEX person can attempt to Block. If successful, they go first next time.

 

There is an optional maneuver called "Hipshot" which allows an attack, with ANY attack (not just pistols, despite the misleading name "Hipshot") to go one DEX point faster in exchange for sacrificing 1 pt of OCV. Given the relative values of OCV and Lightning Reflexes, I'd say it's perfectly justifiable to make it 1d6 DEX faster instead of just 1 pt of DEX.

 

Lightning Reflexes is a Talent for those who really really want to go first, but if it's too "cut and dried" for you and you actually want even more dice rolling in your combat scenes, you can try this:

 

Not So Fast, Me First!: (Total: 24 Active Cost, 4 Real Cost) Aid DEX 2d6+1, Trigger (Activating the Trigger requires a Zero Phase Action, Trigger resets automatically, immediately after it activates; +3/4) (24 Active Points); Only to Aid Self (-1), Limited Power Only to act first in a phase (-1), Requires A Roll (Skill roll, -1 per 20 Active Points modifier; Must be made each Phase/use; -3/4), Limited Power Instant Fade, only lasts a single phase (-1/2), Conditional Power Must use with "Hipshot" (+1 DEX initiative -1 OCV) (-1/2), Side Effects (Lose phase if Required Roll fails; -1/2)

(Real Cost: 4) END Cost: 2

Expend 2 END points, take 1 off of OCV, roll 2d6+1 and take half of that (because DEX costs 2 pts for 1 pt) and add another +1 (for the Hipshot). Your DEX for initiative purposes goes up by 3 to 8. To simplify, you might want to just roll 1d6+2. Or if you go with the option of letting hipshot add 1d6 by itself, make it 2d6+1 added to DEX.

 

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary inserts itself into my tagline on its own initiative