The Problem of Angels

[UberGeek88]

In creating a fantasy setting, I decided that all magical power has a cost. For mortals, of course this comes through a number of channels - the gods, demons, elemental lords, or hard work for lesser (compared to other disciplines) power. But for other worldly powers, the power comes directly from souls. The demons get their souls from corrupting humanity into damnation. The Elemental Lords (who are more primordial and might be the creators of the universe) proffer elemental magic in return for eternal servitude in wars against other lords. The gods are other entities who have gathered into pantheons (with false origin stories) to share souls from worshipers. And while many gods were angels prior to hatching this private pool theory, I have no idea what the role of angels are in this cosmology.

 

Does anyone have any ideas how I could solve this conundrum? Because I really want angels to be movers and shakers (as both allies and antagonists), but feel that I've pushed them out of any tangible role in this cosmology.

[Killer Shrike]

Um...well...why have "angels" at all? They don't seem to fit your cosmology, and the concept is hardly necessary. Also, the term "angel" is pretty heavily linked to the judeo christian religion of the non-fictional existence. Why interject it into your fictional cosmology?

 

You could of course use it as a label for entities somewhere on a spectrum of apotheosis (or something similar but less loaded, like deva), but why bother?

 

If something adds no value, get rid of it.

[Michael Hopcroft]

The one difference between a "demon" and an "angel" can be boiled down to one simple question -- "whose side are you on?". In Christian cosmology, demons are nothing more than angels who, in the battle between good and evil, chose evil. So you can reverse this logic -- if you have demons in your setting who serve evil gods, angels with roughly the same abilities can serve good ones. They're the same type of beings -- in fact they might be exactly the same. The only difference is "whose side they're on".

[bigbywolfe]

And while many gods were angels prior to hatching this private pool theory, I have no idea what the role of angels are in this cosmology.

How can many gods be former angels if you don't even know what angels are in your setting? Would it not then follow that you don't really know what those gods are?

[Greywind]

Demons are also entities, either good or evil, that existed prior. Such as pagan gods.

[bigbywolfe]

Demons are also entities, either good or evil, that existed prior. Such as pagan gods.

Depends on the cosmology. Most branches of real world Christianity doesn't recognize pagan gods as such, they consider the same demons/fallen angels from scripture deceiving the ignorant pagans. That being said, there are a lot of places where Christianity and local religions mixed into some pretty odd beliefs and myths.

[Old Man]

Not sure why angels in your cosmology can't be working for some of the gods who are 'sharing' souls. Alternatively, perhaps angels get their power from souls that they have somehow freed, and which then work freely on their behalf.

[Christopher]

Angels and Demons existed before Souls existed.

Those that gathered the most souls fast became gods.

Those left had the choice to either serve one of the gods, be crushed or left to obscurity.

 

It is kinda like a Corporate Landscape:

There are several big coorporations (gods + those that follow them) that formed cartel's (the Pantheons) and effectively control the market.

 

Let's introduce some varriations:

There still might be local providers that have some sort of "Monopol by Tradition" - the people always worshipped X, so no other believe can get roots there.

Maybe a bunch of free angels and demons (with no clear god) formed a union or secrect organsiation to break the current structures?

 

The world of Diablo had the arrival of mankind cause a sort of "Cold War" between heaven and hell: Both sides trying to get a decisive advantage (by getting control of earth) with ocassional proxy wars and skirmishes.

[Greywind]

Demons are souls that were traded to the fallen angels and became powerful in their own right. Don't you watch Supernatural?

[Markdoc]

Another possibility is demons gain power from the suffering of a soul. You can squeeze a bit out from earthly suffering which is why demons just generally promote it, but think how much more you can get, if you can ensnare a soul, drag it off to hell and then torture it eternally! Sorry about the fire, bub, it's nothin' personal, but I've got places to go, things to do, and I need the power.

 

Angels, on the other hand gain power from beauty and joy - with the catch that unlike Demons, they can't imprison souls, because, really, that's not so joyful. They have to collaborate with souls - which means the good gods (and the angels that serve them) work with volunteers in the great divine war, not slaves or servants.

 

cheers, Mark

[Michael Hopcroft]

If "power has a cost", then the more benevolent beings might try to prevent people from accumulating too much of it. real world religious systems have example of this -- most forbid "sorcery". Keeping you from becoming a sorcerer is, in the eyes of creatures like angels, "for your own good". The reason is that you will suffer more in the long run from what you have to do to obtain magical power than you will temporarily gain from wielding it.

 

If the source of magic is the demons that becomes obvious -- even if you think you can make the demons serve you, in the end not only are you helping their cause but they will inevitably exact their "price" by subjecting you to the eternal torment that gives them their own powers. The angel who stops you from signing that pact did it for your long-term benefit.

 

Theoretically you can summon angels and ask them to give you power. But I sincerely doubt most angels would approve of it. It seems to me that if you are willing to "Sell your soul", then you are the sort of person whose soul is already "lost". You're damned simply for the request and the demon you contact grants you things in return solely at its whim. If it benefits their cause that you be able to do certain things to help them drag others into the pit, they'll "help" with that. But if you don't have much promise as an agent of evil, they'll probably just drag you into the flames and be done with it.

[Alverant]

I can think of several possibilities.

1) Angels are a sort of police force between Lords, Gods, and Demons. Despite their claims of ethical behavior sometimes they slip up so a third party is needed to keep the peace and enforce the laws

2) Angels are representatives of another unknown group with their own agenda, this works best if angels are defined as celestial beings without a set appearance or abilities (think Neon Genesis angels)

3) Angels act as messengers for the other groups like mercenaries, with no particular loyalty. Demons can't go into the church to take the unholy artifact? Hire an angel. One pantheon needs to send a message to an Elemental Lord? Hire an angel.

4) Angels are the protectors of the world to keep any fights from otherworldly beings from affecting ordinary people.