Help With Contacts

[Uthanar]

I am wondering how Contacts are used at various tables. When I have tried to model some of the things with them that I assumed, it felt like they were costing too much. My players felt the same, and the one who did purchase a Contact rarely ever calls upon it. Which lead me to believe that I am probably coming at Contacts from the wrong viewpoint.

 

Thanks for insight into your methods on using them!

[ayinde]

what do you use contacts for or better how would you want them used

[Killer Shrike]

I find Contacts most useful when using Resource Points, both because they are effectively half the cost and also because if using the "kit & armory" rules the player has some flexibility in which Contacts are active for a given story arc (or however often the GM allows them to swap contacts in and out) which makes them considerably more relevant.

 

However, that aside, as a GM controlled construct the usefulness of Contacts is directly in the lap of the GM. If your players are finding them not useful then you as the GM are not making them useful.

 

If you allow characters to get the sort of utility a Contact would normally provide out of random or reoccurring NPC's for free then yeah, Contacts is a rip in your campaigns. Why pay for what you can get for free after all?

 

Basically, make Contacts matter more and your players will use them more. Simply dial up how useful you make them until you and / or your players feel like they are getting good value for the points.

[Uthanar]

I find Contacts most useful when using Resource Points, both because they are effectively half the cost and also because if using the "kit & armory" rules the player has some flexibility in which Contacts are active for a given story arc (or however often the GM allows them to swap contacts in and out) which makes them considerably more relevant.

 

However, that aside, as a GM controlled construct the usefulness of Contacts is directly in the lap of the GM. If your players are finding them not useful then you as the GM are not making them useful.

 

If you allow characters to get the sort of utility a Contact would normally provide out of random or reoccurring NPC's for free then yeah, Contacts is a rip in your campaigns. Why pay for what you can get for free after all?

 

Basically, make Contacts matter more and your players will use them more. Simply dial up how useful you make them until you and / or your players feel like they are getting good value for the points.

While a helpful statement, it sadly provided me no information on what your personal uses are for them.

 

How does one distinguish what is good for a Contact to do versus what you might require a Follower to do?

[Uthanar]

what do you use contacts for or better how would you want them used

Currently they mainly use them when they need research done in a specific avenue. The contact is also called when 'Iron Man' needs someone to fill the suit while he cannot.

[Killer Shrike]

I find Contacts most useful when using Resource Points, both because they are effectively half the cost and also because if using the "kit & armory" rules the player has some flexibility in which Contacts are active for a given story arc (or however often the GM allows them to swap contacts in and out) which makes them considerably more relevant.

 

However, that aside, as a GM controlled construct the usefulness of Contacts is directly in the lap of the GM. If your players are finding them not useful then you as the GM are not making them useful.

 

If you allow characters to get the sort of utility a Contact would normally provide out of random or reoccurring NPC's for free then yeah, Contacts is a rip in your campaigns. Why pay for what you can get for free after all?

 

Basically, make Contacts matter more and your players will use them more. Simply dial up how useful you make them until you and / or your players feel like they are getting good value for the points.

Followers and Contacts are very different things.

 

A Follower gets a character sheet, gains XP, will accompany a character on adventures, will act as agents for a character and so forth. They can take actions during combats and extend the character's action economy. The total number can be increased using the doubling rules. Depending on the nature of the Follower I as the GM might run them entirely or trust the player to use them and simply overrule any declared action I feel the Follower would not slavishly do.

 

Contacts on the other hand are allies at best, a reusable source of Favors. They do not need character sheets. They do not gain XP. They do not accompany PC's on adventures. They are controlled by the GM, and are primarily facilitators of the evolving narrative of the campaign's storyline. They are a roleplaying construct, not a fully featured character who follows the PC around. GM's can grant them as story awards in addition to XP to enrich the campaign and reflect events that occurred during play...but also consider Favors which are 1 time use Contacts.

 

Similarly, DNPC's might serve a similar function to a Contact and / or a Follower depending on how they are defined and how the GM decides to use them, but unlike a Contact who is either helpful or not, or a Follower who basically acts as an extension of the character with some restrictions on what they will or wont do, DNPC's exist primarily to complicate the character's existence.

 

Having said that, you as the GM are free to interpret a particular Contact as a full character who will on occasion (or maybe just that one time when it made sense to the story) directly help a character out in a combat situation, and treat them as such, but that's a GM decision. That would basically allow a character to invoke a GM-controlled mary sue on a 3d6 roll under. But if it makes your game run more funner...

[Christopher]

"Currently they mainly use them when they need research done in a specific avenue. The contact is also called when 'Iron Man' needs someone to fill the suit while he cannot."

For that a Contact is overkill. And I mean "shoot a bird with a nuke" overkill. For Tony Stark, often his DNCP are bought with just enough usefullness to cover this.

 

If the characters need an expert in X to get fruther in the story, there is a expert in X, he has the answer and will be willing to help (or aquiring his help is part/reason behind the adventure). He doesn't exists before the adventure. He propably won't be used after. He is not a power, not a follower, not a contact - he is a plot device.

 

The perhaps most important rule is the "What not to spend points on" Rule. Wich I shortened too: "If it does not affect the game regulary, keep it out of the sheets math already."

If a characters Skill/Contact/Sense can't help him regulary to get an advantage (shorten an adventrues path/avoid obstacles), then it should not cost anything.

[Greywind]

"Currently they mainly use them when they need research done in a specific avenue. The contact is also called when 'Iron Man' needs someone to fill the suit while he cannot."

For that a Contact is overkill. And I mean "shoot a bird with a nuke" overkill. For Tony Stark, often his DNCP are bought with just enough usefullness to cover this.

 

If the characters need an expert in X to get fruther in the story, there is a expert in X, he has the answer and will be willing to help (or aquiring his help is part/reason behind the adventure). He doesn't exists before the adventure. He propably won't be used after. He is not a power, not a follower, not a contact - he is a plot device.

 

The perhaps most important rule is the "What not to spend points on" Rule. Wich I shortened too: "If it does not affect the game regulary, keep it out of the sheets math already."

If a characters Skill/Contact/Sense can't help him regulary to get an advantage (shorten an adventrues path/avoid obstacles), then it should not cost anything.

But once he's established as an expert in his field, he can be bought as a Contact.

[Lucius]

When I first saw Contacts, I thought they were a definite case of something that should be covered by role playing and common sense about character backgrounds, not something that should cost points.

 

In the Turakian Age game I'm running, one of the player characters wanted to buy the Sirrenic Empire's military as a contact. I told him that everything he would get with that, I was planning to give him for free because we'd already established that he'd enlisted, at what rank, and what specific soldiers (all 2 of them) were assigned to follow his orders, also who he was reporting to and who was transmitting orders TO him. I let him save the points.

 

On the other hand, the shaman character has several Spirit Contacts to represent their own Spirit Ally, the local nature spirits wherever they go, and ancestral spirits. More often than not I use these on my initiative rather than the player asking to make a roll. I think they've been very useful, but I try to keep them in line with what's paid for them - for example, when they had some giants hanging around (not attacking, but hanging around and saying, in their pidgin Sirrenic, "You got horses. We got gold?" trying to buy their horses) she tried to contact ancestors for advice, and I gave her one of her Dwarven ancestors jumping up and down saying "Those are giants! Grab a battle ax and go attack them!" when the character, a Gnome shaman, has no battle ax and no intention of taking on giants with her little dagger. Amusing, but not useful. But other times, local spirits and ancestors have given good clues to what's going on.

 

My opinion: Contacts as presented in the rules should probably be covered under, as I think I already put it, "role playing and common sense about character backgrounds." But they are useful for certain unusual characters; I think any priest, for example, in a game that has interventionist Deities, should have their patron or pantheon as a Contact (and if I were creating my own setting, rather than using Turakian Age or any published setting, this Contact would replace any "Divine Magic" because I don't think Divine Magic in the D&D mold makes much sense to begin with.)

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary buys Contact: Lucius Alexander anyway

[Greywind]

The point is with Contacts, if they have information they approach the characters with it. If the PLAYERS are stuck, they can check with their contacts to see if they have any leads or options. It's kind of a meta-game throw-the-dog-a-bone. A failed roll is either the contact has no info or the contact is not available (might be in a sticky situation and need help).

[Christopher]

"But once he's established as an expert in his field, he can be bought as a Contact."

He can, but why should he?

He was an expert before the charactrs met him, he will still be one after the Characters met him. And there is a surprising amount of Professors that don't die/aquire superpowers/don't appear ever again after meeting the Chracters. Contact does not affect that there is a NPC who has the skills.

 

The only thing that Contact does affect is having a "right" at him tryng to answer the question. The same professor without contact would still be there, could still be consulted - but the GM has total control over what he shares. With contacts that he shares stuff is a right of the characters.

 

For all intents and purposes "Contact" is a bunch of Skills and Perks with an activation Roll. I wouldn't wonder if the original pricing is based on a Computer Build who has only those Skills and Perks (they never do much else then use thier skills and Perks), on an Activation Roll.

But in order for them to be "worth" anything, the Character must be able to regulary get an advantages from them. If they are the primary tool for the GM to get the plot along, then they don't belong on the sheet.

[psyber624]

Contacts (like background skills and obscure powers) are what you make them as both players and GM's. They may not be relevant all the time in which case they may not be "worth" their cost but if you as a GM want them to be worthwhile all you have to do is give them a place in your campaign.

 

If you like the concept of Contacts and want to see them included your players sheets then there are a couple of things I would recommend in order to make them more appealing.

 

1. Always know and keep in mind what Contacts your players have and work ways for them to be useful into your campaigns.

2. Make sure that successful use of Contacts has some ACTUAL BENEFIT to the player that has them, and to the team. While an entire adventure shouldn't come down to whether a Contact roll is passed or not you can easily make an adventure easier or more rewarding with the successful use of contacts.

3. Make sure that the player who bought the Contact gets to be the "star" with successful use of the contact. If all a contact does is provide some knowledge to the team then frequently it may feel like the "player" shouldn't have spent the points on that contact. If the player himself gets some personal benefit however they will become much more popular in your campaign.

 

Some potential uses of Contacts:

Information that could lead to a tactical advantage (That VIPER Base? Yeah, we have been studying it recently. There appears to be a secret entrance somewhere in the sewers as we have spotted a number of suspicious vehicles coming out of there [FBI Contact] ).

Possible bonuses to related Skill rolls (Your trying to reverse engineer some alien tech? Sure bring it on down, you can use the lab here and Prof Jenkins loves that stuff. <+2 to Engineering Roll> [Dean of Science Contact] ).

Increased Rewards from a Mission (Great job taking down that DEMON Cell, they had some interesting Tomes in their library and we translated them. Thought you might learn something from these translations. <+2 Mission XP> [Trimegistus Council Contact].

Additional Avenues of Success (My Interrogation roll failed, so he wont tell me where he hid the bomb. Hmm, maybe its time to call up my old buddy Mentar and see if he's free to come try and pry something out of this guys skull) [superhero Contact]

 

of course there are many more. Its up to you as the GM to determine exactly how useful they are to your players.

 

Of course any or all of the above could be given out for free by the GM if he wanted to, but IMHO Contacts help to broaden and give depth to characters so ensuring that they are worth the points spent on them is the job of any good GM in my book.

[Greywind]

"But once he's established as an expert in his field, he can be bought as a Contact."

He can, but why should he?

He was an expert before the charactrs met him, he will still be one after the Characters met him. And there is a surprising amount of Professors that don't die/aquire superpowers/don't appear ever again after meeting the Chracters. Contact does not affect that there is a NPC who has the skills.

 

The only thing that Contact does affect is having a "right" at him tryng to answer the question. The same professor without contact would still be there, could still be consulted - but the GM has total control over what he shares. With contacts that he shares stuff is a right of the characters.

 

For all intents and purposes "Contact" is a bunch of Skills and Perks with an activation Roll. I wouldn't wonder if the original pricing is based on a Computer Build who has only those Skills and Perks (they never do much else then use thier skills and Perks), on an Activation Roll.

But in order for them to be "worth" anything, the Character must be able to regulary get an advantages from them. If they are the primary tool for the GM to get the plot along, then they don't belong on the sheet.

Because otherwise he may never be available or inclined to ever assist the characters again.

[Christopher]

About the whole "must be usefull/have a benefit"-part:

We recently had a discussion about languages, the Universal Translator and it's prices. And somebody pointed out that languages aren't actually powers (at least they aren't often used that way). They are GM- and Plot-convenience.

 

Usually there is no way for a language to give the players/characters information that the GM would not have had to reveal anyway to get the plot forward. In order for languages to be even worth thier few points, there must be some advantage to have them. And it has to apply regulary.

 

On the other hand, the success of an adventure cannot hinge on a single language. Because you can bet the Players will split up with the one speaking Ancient Elven Dialect being out of earshoot of the Important Conversation.

Also, if it hinges on the Language Skill, then the Language isn't actually a benefit: It is either a tool of GM/Plot Convenience. Or this entire scene was only placed there in a vain attempt to validate the cost of languages. Vain being the leading word.

 

Often the single most important rule to know, is the rule about "What not to Spend Points on" (6E1 31)

[bigdamnhero]

I love Contacts, personally. I think of them as the PCs' supporting cast, and they help expand the universe beyond just heroes, villains, and victims. A lot of them serve as Knowledge Skills With Legs, to either provide skills the PCs don't have, or to compliment skills they do have. The difference between "I know something" and "I know a guy." Mostly useful for research & investigation.

 

The key is that if the players spend points on a Contact, the GM has to write situations where they're useful. I keep a list of all the PCs' Contacts and for each scenario I go down the list and try to think of what info/assistance they might be able to provide (roll permitting). Not all of them are useful in every scenario, of course, but I track how often and how recently each one has come up to make sure I'm not neglecting some and overusing others. If Detective Patterson hasn't come up in awhile, then I'll intentionally write him into the next scenario.

 

Here's a sampling of Contacts the PCs had in my last Champions game, and how they were used:

• PRIMUS: If heroes chose to register their identities with the government, one benefit was the ability to call on PRIMUS for help, information, etc. Provided KS: Law Enforcement, etc, KS: What's Going On In The Superhero World, etc. Unregistered heroes could still call PRIMUS, but it would be like a civilian calling the FBI - you can give them info, but they're unlikely to tell you anything; they might show up, but they'll treat you like a bystander rather than an ally.
  
• Detective Patterson: KS: Local Law Enforcement, etc. Based on a personal relationship (and initially only in SID), rather than a professional relationship, so a different flavor than with PRIMUS.
  
• The Ruff Riders: A motorcycle gang one of the heroes was on good terms with. KS: Criminal Underworld, usually complimentary to Streetwise.
  
• Cleopatra: Owner of a high-end Gentleman's Club. Criminal underworld info too, but more high-end, mixed with society gossip, etc.
  
• Professor Heinz: Scientific knowledge in several fields related to the hero's powers.
  
• The Scarecrow: Another superhero they occasionally worked with, who had mad detective skills and great contacts of his own.
  
• "Various Sources:" One of the heroes was a tabloid reporter in her SID, and knew a lot of street people, etc. KS: Word on the Street, CuK: The Street Scene, AK: The Streets, so forth. Tho multiple individuals, I let her take it as one Contact, one Roll; the fact that it was a different face each time was treated as an sfx.
  

 

[bigdamnhero]

My opinion: Contacts as presented in the rules should probably be covered under' date=' as I think I already put it, "role playing and common sense about character backgrounds." [/quote']

I can see this point of view. But "I used to be in the FBI" doesn't necessarily imply "My old partner in the FBI is willing to help me even tho my clearance has been revoked." YMMV of course. I just think Contacts help the players put a face on their backgrounds.

[psyber624]

The other side of the "What not to spend points on" argument is that you could apply that to nearly EVERY Non-combat Skill, Perk, Talent, or Power in the game. Unless the ability is intrinsically tied to combat then it is completely useless if the GM doesn't write in some way for it to be useful in his adventures from time to time.

 

So basically the two options I am seeing are either

 

1. Remove all non-combat related aspects of the system from the game. They are really just there for flavor and roleplaying opportunities and player's shouldn't have to spend points on them.

 

2. As a GM consider the non-combat abilities of your players and make sure that they get some use for the points they spent. If a player spent points on it then it is worth something to that player's concept of the character and part of your job as GM is to make sure that those points are well spent.

 

Obviously I am biased in favor of option 2 as I feel that the non-combat aspects of the game are well worth the time and effort involved in developing them. And yes, I do understand the concept of "What not to spend points on" but I interpret the spirit of that section differently. My interpretation is that if I, as the GM, decide that what the player is spending his points on will likely never matter to my campaign and I can't reasonably bring it to relevance I tell them that the ability doesn't cost anything. If he wants to put AK: South Africa on his character sheet but I never plan to take my characters out of campaign city then he gets it for free, it just wont matter. On the other hand if he puts KS: African Magic on his character sheet then I think to myself well, guess I should start a Tribal Shaman villain for the group to go up against so he gets some play out of his points. He is telling me that he wants his KS: African Magic to be important so its either my job to tell him no, it isn't so its free, or to make it so. Same thing with Languages, Contacts, Skills, whatever. Saying they are "roleplaying only" and not worth spending points on is missing the point in my opinion. This isn't a Computer RPG where all the plot and choices about what will and wont be important were made LONG before you sat down to play and so avenues are opened and closed based upon how you build your character. HERO is more than a combat simulator, its an interactive storytelling medium as well, and its things like the non-combat aspects of the characters that allow the characters to have some input into the plot and, IMHO, a good GM will recognize and make use of that.

 

Character Points are there not just to balance combat effectiveness, but to balance "Spotlight Time" as well. Granted, if you don't have Dr. Mcartney as a contact then I as a GM will have to give you some other means of resolving the conflict. But if you do then in this situation you get to be the one to resolve the problem, you get to be the HERO because of your skill that you spent points on. (the fact that the GM decided you would be the HERO is hopefully not too obvious but its there) That's why you spent those points. There is more to being a HERO than being good at combat and kicking villain butt.

[Uthanar]

Thanks for a variety of opinions on the subject!

[bigdamnhero]

The other side of the "What not to spend points on" argument is that you could apply that to nearly EVERY Non-combat Skill, Perk, Talent, or Power in the game. Unless the ability is intrinsically tied to combat then it is completely useless if the GM doesn't write in some way for it to be useful in his adventures from time to time.

 

So basically the two options I am seeing are either

 

1. Remove all non-combat related aspects of the system from the game. They are really just there for flavor and roleplaying opportunities and player's shouldn't have to spend points on them.

 

2. As a GM consider the non-combat abilities of your players and make sure that they get some use for the points they spent. If a player spent points on it then it is worth something to that player's concept of the character and part of your job as GM is to make sure that those points are well spent.

 

Obviously I am biased in favor of option 2 as I feel that the non-combat aspects of the game are well worth the time and effort involved in developing them. And yes, I do understand the concept of "What not to spend points on" but I interpret the spirit of that section differently. My interpretation is that if I, as the GM, decide that what the player is spending his points on will likely never matter to my campaign and I can't reasonably bring it to relevance I tell them that the ability doesn't cost anything. If he wants to put AK: South Africa on his character sheet but I never plan to take my characters out of campaign city then he gets it for free, it just wont matter. On the other hand if he puts KS: African Magic on his character sheet then I think to myself well, guess I should start a Tribal Shaman villain for the group to go up against so he gets some play out of his points. He is telling me that he wants his KS: African Magic to be important so its either my job to tell him no, it isn't so its free, or to make it so. Same thing with Languages, Contacts, Skills, whatever. Saying they are "roleplaying only" and not worth spending points on is missing the point in my opinion. This isn't a Computer RPG where all the plot and choices about what will and wont be important were made LONG before you sat down to play and so avenues are opened and closed based upon how you build your character. HERO is more than a combat simulator, its an interactive storytelling medium as well, and its things like the non-combat aspects of the characters that allow the characters to have some input into the plot and, IMHO, a good GM will recognize and make use of that.

 

Character Points are there not just to balance combat effectiveness, but to balance "Spotlight Time" as well. Granted, if you don't have Dr. Mcartney as a contact then I as a GM will have to give you some other means of resolving the conflict. But if you do then in this situation you get to be the one to resolve the problem, you get to be the HERO because of your skill that you spent points on. (the fact that the GM decided you would be the HERO is hopefully not too obvious but its there) That's why you spent those points. There is more to being a HERO than being good at combat and kicking villain butt.

Well said!

[Christopher]

The other side of the "What not to spend points on" argument is that you could apply that to nearly EVERY Non-combat Skill, Perk, Talent, or Power in the game. Unless the ability is intrinsically tied to combat then it is completely useless if the GM doesn't write in some way for it to be useful in his adventures from time to time.

 

So basically the two options I am seeing are either

 

1. Remove all non-combat related aspects of the system from the game. They are really just there for flavor and roleplaying opportunities and player's shouldn't have to spend points on them.

 

2. As a GM consider the non-combat abilities of your players and make sure that they get some use for the points they spent. If a player spent points on it then it is worth something to that player's concept of the character and part of your job as GM is to make sure that those points are well spent.

 

Obviously I am biased in favor of option 2 as I feel that the non-combat aspects of the game are well worth the time and effort involved in developing them. And yes, I do understand the concept of "What not to spend points on" but I interpret the spirit of that section differently. My interpretation is that if I, as the GM, decide that what the player is spending his points on will likely never matter to my campaign and I can't reasonably bring it to relevance I tell them that the ability doesn't cost anything. If he wants to put AK: South Africa on his character sheet but I never plan to take my characters out of campaign city then he gets it for free, it just wont matter. On the other hand if he puts KS: African Magic on his character sheet then I think to myself well, guess I should start a Tribal Shaman villain for the group to go up against so he gets some play out of his points. He is telling me that he wants his KS: African Magic to be important so its either my job to tell him no, it isn't so its free, or to make it so. Same thing with Languages, Contacts, Skills, whatever. Saying they are "roleplaying only" and not worth spending points on is missing the point in my opinion. This isn't a Computer RPG where all the plot and choices about what will and wont be important were made LONG before you sat down to play and so avenues are opened and closed based upon how you build your character. HERO is more than a combat simulator, its an interactive storytelling medium as well, and its things like the non-combat aspects of the characters that allow the characters to have some input into the plot and, IMHO, a good GM will recognize and make use of that.

 

Character Points are there not just to balance combat effectiveness, but to balance "Spotlight Time" as well. Granted, if you don't have Dr. Mcartney as a contact then I as a GM will have to give you some other means of resolving the conflict. But if you do then in this situation you get to be the one to resolve the problem, you get to be the HERO because of your skill that you spent points on. (the fact that the GM decided you would be the HERO is hopefully not too obvious but its there) That's why you spent those points. There is more to being a HERO than being good at combat and kicking villain butt.

Some would argue that this applies to "Every Non-Combat Skill", because they use them extensively. But yes, in average there seems to be a tendency to be focussed on combat ability first.

[Uthanar]

So, if I were a member of the Avengers and purchased 'Contacts Avengers', I would be able to try and involve Iron Man in the story through the use of the roll?

 

To bring it to the game that I am running, the team is the Sentinels. They have the main characters, and then they have some second stringers that are around as well. In addition to that, they have some folks that they have helped out and help them out. One of those people is a young woman who is coming into her own as a magician. She has a fairly good teleport ability, a good Mind Scan, and a Mental Link that the players use when she is around. With a Contacts roll would I be able to call upon her to use these powers?

 

There is a second stringer that is made up of metal and is very strong. She has never learned how to fight though. So she is good at being strong and tough, but not very good in a fight. If I use the Contacts roll, I would be able to get her to help me out in an appropriate fashion? I could effectively get her to come down to where I am and hold buildings up, stop bullets, and look menacing?

 

The questions above are ignoring any 'story consideration' for ease of my understanding.

 

When do you see something that is too much for contacts? A lot of the answers above have been theory rather than experience in what contacts have done.

[Greywind]

It depends on what you mean by "involve Iron Man in the story" and your GM. I normally only allow Contacts to provide information and/or equipment if the roll succeeds. If the roll fails, "I'm sorry. You just missed him."

[Uthanar]

Interesting, because when I was asking earlier and talked about someone able to provide information and get into Power Armor when the normal user has to be elsewhere, that was deemed 'not worth a contact'. (Though you did seem to be in a different camp)

 

Color me confused.

[Greywind]

Power Armor tends to be a character. In most cases power armor is linked to one person (either as a focus or OIHID), and only that person can use it. Tony Stark would take it wrong if someone else played with his armor without his permission. If you're running short handed because a player didn't show, have the GM run his character if need be.

 

Contacts, imo, are and should be NPCs. Players can make their own alliances among themselves.

[Uthanar]

Normal user = character, not player. Howard had to be at the Sentinels press conference and Pulse had to be part of it. So he called in his buddy Jerry to wear the suit for him. Just to explain what happened.