Heroic Halfwit Posted October 3, 2014 Report Share Posted October 3, 2014 Persian "catching wicker shields" 30 STR Clinging Area of Effect Personal Surface Damage Shield +1/2; Focus OAF -1; Requires a Roll 8- -1 1/4. Active Cost 30 Real Cost 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja-Bear Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 And this is the point. Movies like 300 aside, as far as the shield bash goes, it's a highly inefficient way to deal damage. A shield's a crap weapon. The shield bash is a trick - the sort of thing an experienced fighter might spring, but it's a risky move, because you are losing your protection for an instant. It's not a tactic that was trained (with the exception of later renaissance shield and buckler duelling: that's a different question entirely). And it's not some thing that was used frequently on the battlefield, as far as we can tell by osteoarcheology. cheers, Mark As i said. The shield bash would be a dirty trick type maneuver albeit not out of the question. Soldiers today are taught that what constitutes a weapon is what is in your hand. The E-tool isn't by design a weapon but can be used so if needed. You still seem to keep to the notion that hand to hand combat is static. Heads will be up, backs straight, and the body is immobile, and the ground is perfectly level. That just isn't the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markdoc Posted October 6, 2014 Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 Ummm ... having visited plenty of ancient battlegrounds, I'm under no illusion that the ground was perfectly flat, or that ancient battles were anything but chaotic. My point is that shields in general are crap weapons, and that the hoplon in particular is grossly unsuited as a weapon. So far as we know, the shield bash was simply not a technique that was widely used (or even known) - depictions in 300 apart. I have no doubt that at some point a hoplite bashed a foe with his shield - and I have no doubt it was a desperation measure. I'm pretty sure that from time to time, rocks and sticks were used as weapons as well. If you have nothing better, you use what you have. But that's a world away from training to use a technique. Actually I'll let you into another secret: unlike in 300, Greek Hoplites almost never dealt with charging cavalry by springing 4 metres into the air and stabbing the cavalrymen as they rode underneath. Both are cinematic/heroic moves that I'd be perfectly happy with in one of my games, but they're not in any way reflective of reality. cheers, Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawnmower Boy Posted October 6, 2014 Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 Actually I'll let you into another secret: unlike in 300, Greek Hoplites almost never dealt with charging cavalry by springing 4 metres into the air and stabbing the cavalrymen as they rode underneath. Per Bernal's recent research, this is not as far-fetched as Markdoc supposes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhd Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 Ummm ... having visited plenty of ancient battlegrounds, I'm under no illusion that the ground was perfectly flat, or that ancient battles were anything but chaotic. I thought that when Greeks fought Greeks, they often were. Small armies, no sieges, so when you actually met, it was on designated ground and terms. So that lambda on your shields meant that you were in fact amongst the very first lettermen. Of course, once you get unfair outside attackers, things change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markdoc Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 I thought that when Greeks fought Greeks, they often were. Small armies, no sieges, so when you actually met, it was on designated ground and terms. So that lambda on your shields meant that you were in fact amongst the very first lettermen. Of course, once you get unfair outside attackers, things change. Sure, where do you think the whole fraternity thing comes from? We do know that the Greeks sometimes fought prearranged battles to settle issues with minimal bloodshed (it must have sucked to be the team that had to play "skins"), but we also know that ambushes, random encounters and mass backstabbing frequently occurred, so battles could happen literally anywhere. As an aside - and only peripherally related - you learn a lot about history by simply visiting the site. Last year, while in Rome, I visited the Golden House, where Julius Caesar was murdered. The spot where it occurred was indicated ... right outside the toilets. They don't tell you that in history class, but looking at the place, I'm left with the very strong suspicion that the conspirators murdered him when he came out of the toilet - probably still adjusting his toga! cheers, Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted October 8, 2014 Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 Thanks for making us privy to that information Lucius Alexander The palindromedary says they caught him with his pants down, forgetting that Ceasar probably wore no pants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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