How to Build: Entrapment Spell (Generic / Fantasy Hero) using Hero 6E

[Jujitsuguy]

Hey all:

 

I'm trying to figure out how to build an Entrapment spell that is UNDER 90AP w/in the Hero 6E system. This is the type of spell where Summoning a creature (Demon, otherworldly creature, etc.), and then entraping them by a sigil of sorts (Like a pentagram/hexagram/etc. drawn/carved into the floor/ceiling/etc.).

 

I know you could make a Compound power that includes Summoning--which is the easy part--however, then the entrapment part.

 

To keep the points reasonable--of course lower points for the summoned creature--then I have only left and figuring out an example for holding the creature.

 

Here's the methods I've tried to figure out, but they all do not quite meet the requirements:

 

1) Barrier - The Barrier ALWAYS has limitations and I'm limited w/ respect to what I can pick for the summoned creature--yes, I can make the shape a cylinder of 2m radius and hardened, but it has a physical weakness that can be broken;

 

2) Desolid as an attack on a creature summoned that can only exist w/in the sigil space - Not quite sure this makes sense to try;

 

3) Alternate special extra-dimensional to a "pocket" universe that limits the summoned creature - Again, not 100% of how to exactly create this;

 

4) Mind Control - limited version that ONLY holds the creature mentally w/in the confines of the sigil created for it;

 

The problem w/ any/all of them, is that the spell I am designing--shamefully to emulate the AD&D 2nd Edition "Ensnarement" Spell :-( -- is that this spell not only holds the creature w/in the sigil area, but supposedly none of the creatures powers are useful against the summoning Wizard/Caster.

 

Think of the show Supernatural, where they summon demons and even archetypes that the characters draw/carve sigils and then when the entity is summoned, they are locked w/in the mystical bounds of the drawn sigil, yet have no power to act upon the summoner.

 

So, there I have it...any takers?

 

Any help would be humbly and graciously appreciated...I'm just trying to get a better field experience w/ the ruleset.

 

Thanks...

 

Chuck D. aka "Jujitsuguy"

[Steve Long]

Re: How to Build: Entrapment Spell (Generic / Fantasy Hero) using Hero 6E

 

Well, I can tell you how I do it in published books.

 

All demons have a Physical Complication that they're subject to being trapped by pentagrams and the like. These can be created with the Summoning Circle spell (HSG 72), which costs 12 Active Points, 1 Real Point.

 

That same Physical Complication could be extended by default as a campaign ground rule to elementals and many other types of beings. It all depends on how you want the magic to work in your campaign setting.

[Jujitsuguy]

Re: How to Build: Entrapment Spell (Generic / Fantasy Hero) using Hero 6E

 

Mr. Long:

 

You are awesome...thank you kind sir...I was banging my head saying how to make a power, whereas there could be a complimentary complication that a simple power could take advantage of...now I need to find HSG 72 :-( apologies for the ignorance here...still gaining my feet.

 

Chuck D. aka "Jujitsuguy"

[dmjalund]

Re: How to Build: Entrapment Spell (Generic / Fantasy Hero) using Hero 6E

 

It's only Entrapment if a cop does it!

[Ndreare]

Re: How to Build: Entrapment Spell (Generic / Fantasy Hero) using Hero 6E

 

Grimoire and Bestiary will help your fantasy game preparation time a lot. I strongly suggest getting if you can afford them.

Once you have them you may even find adventure ideas just from reading some of the spells.

 

PS: reading the pre built spells also help you 'get' the system because theddescription right next to the written mechanic can be enlightening to new players.

[Steve Long]

Re: How to Build: Entrapment Spell (Generic / Fantasy Hero) using Hero 6E

 

You are awesome...thank you kind sir...I was banging my head saying how to make a power, whereas there could be a complimentary complication that a simple power could take advantage of...now I need to find HSG 72 :-( apologies for the ignorance here...still gaining my feet.

 

Glad to help.

 

Basically the spell is just a Change Environment, "create an area that takes advantage of demons' Physical Complication." It's easy enough to whip up your own version if you don't want to get the Grimoire, but I think you'll find the HSG handy.

[Ndreare]

Re: How to Build: Entrapment Spell (Generic / Fantasy Hero) using Hero 6E

 

Steve you are supposed to tell him it cannot be done with out buying your books Once they find out all the rules are in the core books is over.

[Jujitsuguy]

Re: How to Build: Entrapment Spell (Generic / Fantasy Hero) using Hero 6E

 

Ndreare...don't worry, I am purchasing the documents for reference...I prefer the PDFs anywho.

 

I have purchased the Hero Designer application and I managed to buy the Beastiary pack, that Steve so kindly pointed me to that disadvantage.

 

 

Steve:

 

I thank you sir for your patience to point out this valuable info. to this oldie, but newbie...actually, I was thinking of making a global rule that encompasses everyone in my campaign that everything can be summoned into a circle...you just need the right materials and know their "true name" or what-not.

 

Again, thanks, and I'll look at this deeper...and buy the books of course, when I can. ;-)

 

Chuck D. aka "Jujitsuguy"

[Steve Long]

Re: How to Build: Entrapment Spell (Generic / Fantasy Hero) using Hero 6E

 

actually, I was thinking of making a global rule that encompasses everyone in my campaign that everything can be summoned into a circle...you just need the right materials and know their "true name" or what-not.

 

I do something similar in parts of the MHI RPG that I'm currently working on. For example, rather than try to provide a whole stat block for a Ward Stone, which would require Power Modifiers that aren't in the Basic form of the rules, I just say, "assume that all creatures of such-and-such type are automatically Susceptible to this damage, at such-and-such a rate." It's not common enough for the monsters to deserve a Complication for it, but it's a great way to explain what a Ward Stone does without introducing any new rules.

 

I can easily see a GM instituting similar rules for his own campaign to save time and trouble.

[Ndreare]

Re: How to Build: Entrapment Spell (Generic / Fantasy Hero) using Hero 6E

 

I mostly play fantasy Hero and as a default file we say all magic is subject to skill contest. This encourages wizards to take magic skills but does not slow down pay with extra activation rolls. If a pc or npc Wizard sees a spell going they want to interrupt they can roll a skill contest using theirskill in that domain but in most cases they would rather save their action for offense.

[Jujitsuguy]

Re: How to Build: Entrapment Spell (Generic / Fantasy Hero) using Hero 6E

 

Ndreare:

 

Actually, using Hero Designer, I have made up both Spellcaster Skill levels as well as Spellcasting Talents, which are used for determining Spellcasting Rolls. Also provides a balance to my campaign, where if you want to progress to higher levels, you MUST take a higher Point Value of a Spellcasting Talent, which then allows the person to take Spellcasting Skills. How I will implement it is that spells that aren't a direct challenge to one's EGO or CON, etc., are simply a Spellcasting roll (-1 per 20 AP of the spell used). If a spell that is like Summoning, Mental Control, or other, I make that a challenge roll. Example, Illusionary spell that is a challenge of Spellcaster Skill Roll vs. EGO roll to a target entity (or entities as individual rolls, depending on who succeeds or fails).

Others, like my version of a fireball, the spell fires off w/ a successful Spellcaster Skill roll (Just like an attack), and those in the Area of affect, roll a DEX roll to either get full or half-damage(but it is NOT a challenge roll)...btw would suck if the wizard miscalculates and puts himself w/in the explosion area! (In that case, the Wizard rolls DEX at a -2 as he was suprised of his own folly)

 

The points taken up by Spellcasting Skills and the Spellcasting Talent populates a significance in the efforts to learn Spells, whereas all spells are Different Powers w/in Multipower Pools of Schools of Spellcasting w/in Powers.

 

To add to the foray, I created a Mana and Mana Recovery, similar to what I noted in other adaptations that spells and mental-based powers use for their Endurance.

 

As per my definitions in the file Mana is the form of Endurance for Wizards/Psionicists/Diviners/Inherent powers. This represents the energy w/in one's self to guide the Cosmic forces in the form of Magic, or Psionic "Funneling", Divination to contact one's Deity for Spells and powers, as well as some Special abilities.

Some may say why not use END...well, I am using END for Characteristics use and for Powers that I deem are Mutant-based powers, not powers of the Psyche. I'm not saying Magic is a form of Psionics or Psionics is a form of Magic...they are unique to themselves, but they both use forms of a Psyche, to draw from w/in.

 

A good example of difference I use between the use of END vs. MAN (or Mana), is say a Mutant--The Hulk--has his powers tied to END and even an endurance reserve tied to his mutation, because his powers is NOT of the Psyche, but genetically affected, vs. Magneto, even though he is a genetic anomaly, his power is based on MAN, due to his Psyche control of Magnetic properties. Flash and Superman are examples tied to END, whereas the Silver Surfer would be tied to a Mana of Cosmic power, a form of funneling the energies that already exist...same a a Wizard, whom channels magical energies through the spirit world, planar elements, etc., a Diviner/Priest uses his psyche to funnel energies to/from his deit(y/ies).

 

Possibly I'm reinventing the wheel, but just more of an adaptation for a gaming universe(or multiverse, let's say), that is based purely on Hero System rules.

 

My campaign has a more in-depth set of elements to it, but I won't bore you folks, because I am trying to make sure I'm not violating the core rules of the game, but just expanding it for my particular purposes. If/When I ever get my project done, I'm more than happy to share w/ all, to see if this is something viable, as I need to get my gaming group to playtest it.

 

My ultimate goal for my pet project is simply a self-sustaining campaign genre, just like those of Killer Shrike and others have made on their own accord. Besides, keeps me off the streets so I don't hang around street gangs, being a thug/hooligan. ;-) (Hee hee, like my wife and kids--6, 4, and one in the oven--would appreciate)

 

In the end, I am very appreciative of the advice from all of you, and it is always welcomed...if I can't take critique, how the hell am I supposed to grow?

 

Chuck D. aka "Jujitsuguy"

[psyber624]

Re: How to Build: Entrapment Spell (Generic / Fantasy Hero) using Hero 6E

 

If you are using multiple sources of power for your campaign make sure that Spellcasters are getting something to compensate them for having to spend points on a "spellcasting" talent that doesn't do anything other than control what spells the have access to and such.

 

Otherwise you may make that archetype less popular. If the mutant doesn't have to pay any points just to be able to have mutant powers, why should the Spellcaster have to. Generally speaking these types of magic systems are inappropriate to a generic campaign unless you spend a great deal of effort making sure that all the different power sources get the same treatment in some way.

[Jujitsuguy]

Re: How to Build: Entrapment Spell (Generic / Fantasy Hero) using Hero 6E

 

psyber624:

 

Thanks for the observation...I did think this through as well, so I have been building this also into my campaign world with respects to requirements of limitations one must take to have non-magical powers--mutant, psionic, cosmic, etc.

 

I have already put in ground rules for the distribution of points for the character, such as groupings as this:

 

- Characteristics - 20% of Character points

- Skills/Perks/Talents/(Martial Arts) Total - 37.5% of Character points

- Powers - 42.5% of Character points

 

I know this doesn't directly respond to your above query on points spellcasters vs. the others use, but I further defined other things such as:

 

**All powers MUST have an activation roll of sorts(-1 / 20AP of Power) - and there is a skill that is aligned to power usage...this represents one whom starts w/ a power, and must "hone" it to be useful or useless...I will give my players the option of having a partially successful w/ side affects, vs. no success w/ no side affects, requirements for some Concentration limitations, and things such as that. Also, even though I commonly use MANA for both Spellcasters and power-using Non-Spellcasters, my rule that Spellcaster spells cost 2x MANA(END), vs. 3xMANA(END) for their counter power-using Non-Spellcasters.

 

My spellcasters are not required to have concentration disadvantages to their powers, as I would assume there is more formal training for them that takes this into account, thus the Spellcasting skill and talents. They "learn" how to cast during combat.

 

All Spellcasters MUST also have minimal disadvantages, such at least a Incantations(Verbal), and optional Gestures(Somatic), and Focus/Foci, to bring down the cost, but not necessary.

 

A non-spellcaster w/ a power may have learned it informally or needs to muster the focus mentally/emotionally/physically to get their power to start...this is simply how I will explain it in my campaign world...I know there's a multitude of ways to do it. I will leave that most all non-Spellcaster powers (with some exceptions), take a full phase or more to activate or get a result from...

 

Killer Shrike's numerous systems are very impressive how he has explained different spellcasting and power usage systems...my guess is he has taken notes from different genres of fantasy stories as an implementation...as for me, I am trying to keep a somewhat simpler system that ties all these elements together, so I can reach across different genres that represent my concept of a multiverse--Medieval Fantasy(AD&D, LOTR, etc.), Supernatural(the TV show), Post-Apocalyptic(like Gamma World), Future Fantasy(ShadowRun), Superheroes(Marvel, DC, etc.), and Sci-Fi(Star Trek, Babylon 5, etc.).

 

I'm still ironing out and doing example settings to guarantee a balance between these elements.