VPs, charges, triggers & multiforms

[Panpiper]

I am playing in a Fantasy Hero game in which I was requested to play the mage due to my having a better grasp as to the mechanics of the game. I was further constrained to playing a druid as that is the sort of 'good' magic available in the world in which we are playing. Magic was defined by the GM as being a variable power pool with some heavy restrictions. Namely that all spells are subject to the following; Incantations, Gestures, Concentration, Ego roll if stressed (IE: Combat), and variable extra time. The extra time is such that any spell effect over 30 active points takes a full turn to cast. (The standard power range of the melee characters is between 40-55 active.) In short, the idea essentially is to neuter the effect of magic in combat, while permitting great flexibility outside of combat. (In practice the variable power pools effect's are limited to whatever spells I have predefined, but I have great freedom to add other effects between game sessions.)

 

That left my character being very useful, but quite useless in a fight. My solution to this was to create a multiform with a trigger, the trigger being the initiation of combat. The multiform is a fairly standard melee character (defined as the feral nature coming to the fore).

 

A friend who is a lifelong Hero GM who runs another game (but is not playing in this one) suggested to me that I make use of more triggered effects and charges to permit the use of spell effects of a more instant nature. Sadly I am both ignorant of the mechanics of this and leery of what I would perceive as the possibly overpowered nature of using effects that way. I was furthermore rather perturbed to discover that the rules seem to have absolutely no qualms about a character having a multiform that is significantly more powerful (more points) than the base character. This to me seems highly imbalanced and exactly the sort of thing a powergamer would abuse. I have on my own decided to not spend any more points on the multiform (or even summoned creatures, of which as a druid, I make use of) than I have on my base character. I cannot fathom how a GM could permit otherwise.

 

Does anyone have any pertinent comments on the use of multiforms this way?

 

My main point for posting today however is to get community feedback on the use of triggers and charges to effectively pre-load my character with spell effects that he could use quickly and without handicap in a combat situation. The rules seem to allow for this, and again I fear it is potentially extremely abusive. Yes, we can all say that if the GM permits it, it is ok. But my current GM is inclined to let me get away with anything if it seems reasonable, and I would rather rein myself in than have him regret it later.

 

I currently have a variable power pool with 45 points in both base power and control cost. With the standard defined limitations applied, this basically allows me to have three spells active. I have a few questions related to that.

 

If I cast a spell with a trigger, (such as the multiform triggered by combat), does that spell while not triggered count as one of the three spells active?

 

Can I cast a spell with triggered charges, such as a healing spell usable by others, defined as potions triggered by drinking them, and then still have three spell effects going in addition to that?

 

If I have cast a spell summoning a creature prior to going into my feral multiform, do I retain control of that creature while in the multiform such that I can give it new commands?

 

Does a summoned creature count as one of the three active spell effects or do the rules technically allow me to spam summonings?

[Kealios]

Re: VPs, charges, triggers & multiforms

 

If I cast a spell with a trigger' date=' (such as the multiform triggered by combat), does that spell while not triggered count as one of the three spells active?[/quote']

 

I was just perusing APG2 p45 and came across "Delayed Effect". "If a slot in a Power Framework has the Delayed Effect Advantage, once a character prepares and "stores" that power according to the Delayed Effect rules he has to keep the Framework allocated to that power."

 

It has more, but sounds like it would count.

[Lucius]

Re: VPs, charges, triggers & multiforms

 

Does anyone have any pertinent comments on the use of multiforms this way?

 

I'm afraid my comments would be impertinent.

 

If I cast a spell with a trigger, (such as the multiform triggered by combat), does that spell while not triggered count as one of the three spells active?

 

Not sure of the book legal answer, but I would think it would count.

 

Can I cast a spell with triggered charges, such as a healing spell usable by others, defined as potions triggered by drinking them, and then still have three spell effects going in addition to that?

 

I think this is awkwardly phrased. These potions would have both Charges and Focus Limitations, thus taking up fewer of your available points. You might well have MORE than "three spell effects." But I would think that yes, they DO take up points of your pool even while still untriggered.

 

If I have cast a spell summoning a creature prior to going into my feral multiform' date=' do I retain control of that creature while in the multiform such that I can give it new commands?[/quote']

 

If and only if the Multiform also has the Summon Power. But you might have a cheap version with a Limitation "Only to control creatures summoned by base form."

 

Does a summoned creature count as one of the three active spell effects or do the rules technically allow me to spam summonings?

 

The Summon Power counts towards your total. What counts is the Active and Real Points of the Power. Summoning 8 squirrels does not count 8 times as much as summoning 1 wolf.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Summon Palindromedary with Multiform

[Armitage]

Re: VPs, charges, triggers & multiforms

 

6e1 352

If a character has a power with trigger as a slot in a power framework, and he sets the trigger, he may then shift the points in the framework to another slot. The triggered power remains in effect, waiting to be triggered, even though the framework has shifted to another power (though the GM may forbid this if he feels it violates dramatic sense or would cause game balance problems).

[Matt the Bruins]

Re: VPs, charges, triggers & multiforms

 

I was furthermore rather perturbed to discover that the rules seem to have absolutely no qualms about a character having a multiform that is significantly more powerful (more points) than the base character.

 

6e1 267

A character’s forms are built on the same Total Points (including Matching Complications) as the true form (or fewer points, if the player so desires). Each form that’s built on more points than its Total Points must also buy additional Matching Complications to balance out the extra cost.

 

There's also an option to charge an additional 1 point per 5 points of the alternate form over the base character's points that aren't counterbalanced by additional Matching Complications.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: VPs, charges, triggers & multiforms

 

This is part of "flexibility". If the Multiform cannot have more points than the base character, how does one build a magical spell that briefly transforms the caster into a Dragon? Now, maybe you don't want a spell in your campaign that allows the PC's to access the power of a Dragon, even briefly. In that case, you exercise your power as GM to disallow that spell. But the GM who wants such a spell in his game needs the mechanic to do so.

 

The rules should permit options and flexibility. The GM should decide which options fit his game, and how flexible it will be.

[Markdoc]

Re: VPs, charges, triggers & multiforms

 

I am playing in a Fantasy Hero game in which I was requested to play the mage due to my having a better grasp as to the mechanics of the game. I was further constrained to playing a druid as that is the sort of 'good' magic available in the world in which we are playing. Magic was defined by the GM as being a variable power pool with some heavy restrictions. Namely that all spells are subject to the following; Incantations, Gestures, Concentration, Ego roll if stressed (IE: Combat), and variable extra time. The extra time is such that any spell effect over 30 active points takes a full turn to cast. (The standard power range of the melee characters is between 40-55 active.) In short, the idea essentially is to neuter the effect of magic in combat, while permitting great flexibility outside of combat. (In practice the variable power pools effect's are limited to whatever spells I have predefined, but I have great freedom to add other effects between game sessions.)

 

That left my character being very useful, but quite useless in a fight. My solution to this was to create a multiform with a trigger, the trigger being the initiation of combat. The multiform is a fairly standard melee character (defined as the feral nature coming to the fore).

 

A friend who is a lifelong Hero GM who runs another game (but is not playing in this one) suggested to me that I make use of more triggered effects and charges to permit the use of spell effects of a more instant nature. Sadly I am both ignorant of the mechanics of this and leery of what I would perceive as the possibly overpowered nature of using effects that way. I was furthermore rather perturbed to discover that the rules seem to have absolutely no qualms about a character having a multiform that is significantly more powerful (more points) than the base character. This to me seems highly imbalanced and exactly the sort of thing a powergamer would abuse. I have on my own decided to not spend any more points on the multiform (or even summoned creatures, of which as a druid, I make use of) than I have on my base character. I cannot fathom how a GM could permit otherwise.

 

Well, there are two options.

1) They don't know, in which case I wouldn't spring it on them unexpectedly.

2) They do know, but being inexperienced with the rules don't really understand the implications.

3) They do know, but are just an idiot.

 

Does anyone have any pertinent comments on the use of multiforms this way?

 

My main point for posting today however is to get community feedback on the use of triggers and charges to effectively pre-load my character with spell effects that he could use quickly and without handicap in a combat situation. The rules seem to allow for this, and again I fear it is potentially extremely abusive. Yes, we can all say that if the GM permits it, it is ok. But my current GM is inclined to let me get away with anything if it seems reasonable, and I would rather rein myself in than have him regret it later.

 

The only pertinent comment is that yes, under virtually any circumstance I can imagine, this can be abusive, and you deserve credit for not abusing it!

A while back an acquaintance tried running a very short-lived Turakian age game on-line. I warned him against the divide by 3 magic, and I also warned him - several times - about multiform. He ignored both warnings. So I played a thaumaturge (a scruffy hippy type, actually; it was an amusing character, and might have been a lot of fun, if it hadn't been so grossly overpowered). The campaign lasted only one session, once the GM realised what happened when one of the 150-point characters had access to a 5 point spell, letting him turn into any one of 16 300 point monsters ... To make it easy, I restricted myself to creatures from the Bestiary, but that includes things like the cockatrice with a 6d6 NND does body killing attack, and the Treeman who has a 12d6 HTH attack, 45 STR (fear the Treeman with a greataxe!) and who's pretty damn hard to hurt with weapons. I had other spells, but to be honest, I don't recall what they were: all I needed was shapeshift to be a better fighter than the fighter, a better rogue than the rogue, to have enhanced mobility, great scouting abilities, etc.

 

Hugh's right about flexibility - but only in theory. In practice, there's no way I'd let a multiform like that anywhere near one of my games. Summoning is a bit more balanced in that the creature is an NPC, and the rules actually indicate that normally the creature should be built to the same rules as PCs, which means not on more points. As a GM anything with very loyal summonings is subject to intensive scrutiny, but otherwise the possibility that the summoned creature is only nominally under the control of the PC means that I sometimes allow summoning of more powerful creatures than the PC/NPC (demons being the classic example, as they are always antagonistic).

 

I'd suggest pointing this out to your GM, and suggesting to him the same house rule I have - and which you seem to hit on yourself: no multiform into creatures of higher points than the base creature. For summoning, discuss what the options are. Generally, no creatures over your own points is the default. But if you can only summon natural animals, for example, going over your own points is not such a big deal: a rhinoceros is built on more points than a cockatrice, but though it's a doughty fighter, it's far less dangerous in most circumstances.

 

I currently have a variable power pool with 45 points in both base power and control cost. With the standard defined limitations applied, this basically allows me to have three spells active. I have a few questions related to that.

 

If I cast a spell with a trigger, (such as the multiform triggered by combat), does that spell while not triggered count as one of the three spells active?

 

By rules as written, no. Essentially when you set the triggered spell, it is cast at that point in time. You can then shift points in your framework without affecting the triggered spell. Trigger is intended to be a way of setting up "fire and forget" powers, so this is also in line with the spirit of the rules. However, I'd discus this with your GM, as it can very easily be abusive, especially in games where extra time was specifically put in place so that spell casting does not dominate combat.

 

Can I cast a spell with triggered charges' date=' such as a healing spell usable by others, defined as potions triggered by drinking them, and then still have three spell effects going in addition to that?[/quote']

 

As noted above yeah, you can. This might be one non-abusive way to use trigger - potions of healing, or of strength, etc, which let you be active in combat, but which are not going to give you your full power.

 

If I have cast a spell summoning a creature prior to going into my feral multiform, do I retain control of that creature while in the multiform such that I can give it new commands?

 

Not unless the alternate form also has summon. The rules state "In general, all forms should pay for other things they have in common, such as certain Skills for some characters." This point is reinforced by other comments in the text. So if you shift forms, you either need to spend the point or you lose your summoned creatures (however, see comment below: maybe you just lose control of them)

 

Does a summoned creature count as one of the three active spell effects or do the rules technically allow me to spam summonings?

 

This is a difficult one: if your summoning power is removed from your framework, technically speaking the creature is still there. The power is instant, after all. However, there's an oddity in the rules: you can't spam summonings. If you can summon with your spell "One wolf" you can only ever have one wolf. You can't cast it twice to get two wolves. That indicates that if the points are used again for summoning a new creature, the old summoned creature disappears - which in turn suggests if you shift the points into a another spell, the summoned creature should also disappear, or you simply lose control of it. The latter's how I run it myself, but nowhere is it directly stated or even implied in the rules.

 

cheers, Mark

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: VPs, charges, triggers & multiforms

 

Hugh's right about flexibility - but only in theory. In practice, there's no way I'd let a multiform like that anywhere near one of my games. Summoning is a bit more balanced in that the creature is an NPC, and the rules actually indicate that normally the creature should be built to the same rules as PCs, which means not on more points. As a GM anything with very loyal summonings is subject to intensive scrutiny, but otherwise the possibility that the summoned creature is only nominally under the control of the PC means that I sometimes allow summoning of more powerful creatures than the PC/NPC (demons being the classic example, as they are always antagonistic).

 

I'd suggest pointing this out to your GM, and suggesting to him the same house rule I have - and which you seem to hit on yourself: no multiform into creatures of higher points than the base creature. For summoning, discuss what the options are. Generally, no creatures over your own points is the default. But if you can only summon natural animals, for example, going over your own points is not such a big deal: a rhinoceros is built on more points than a cockatrice, but though it's a doughty fighter, it's far less dangerous in most circumstances.

 

I'd say we're on the same page. The rules should not prohibit higher summon/multiform/whatever. It should still be carefully reviewed. A Wizard who can cast a spell to take on DragonForm for a short period once a day, and is exhausted and/or otherwise disadvantaged for a significant period afterwards, may be perfectly viable and add some interest to the game. A character who spends his 150 points on 1,024 500 point alternate forms (and is otherwise a flat basic character - since he'll never be in that form anyway) - not so much.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: VPs, charges, triggers & multiforms

 

Post the character and spells in question?

[Panpiper]

Re: VPs, charges, triggers & multiforms

 

Thanks to everyone who has responded so far. This is a big help.

 

Post the character and spells in question?

 

Here is the HDC file and an HTML zipped of the character. There is just too much text otherwise for a manageable post due to spell effects and the like.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: VPs, charges, triggers & multiforms

 

Thanks to everyone who has responded so far. This is a big help.

 

Here is the HDC file and an HTML zipped of the character. There is just too much text otherwise for a manageable post due to spell effects and the like.

 

From a concept perspective I'm intrigued by what "Lore of the Rift" might entail. That's a very evocative / enticing name for a skill. I like it.

 

I like "Ego Roll if Stressed" on the VPP...

 

Could we see the write up for the robe mentioned in this note? I'm not 100% following the logic.

Notes: Possesses a magic robe that adds 20 active points to the Control Cost. Spells are defined for the magic pool based upon the 52 active points paid for, with a note for the spell power if the robe's boost is applied.

 

 

Are there some meta rules / or a system design document describing the magic system this dude practices? Does this character know a finite list of specific spells, or is this partially cosmic / open ended and we are just seeing some "example effects"?

****************************

 

 

General thoughts...

 

VPP's are powerful but potentially unbalanced. Multiforms are powerful but potentially unbalanced. Triggers are powerful but potentially unbalanced.

 

Triggered Multiforms in VPP's are...unsurprisingly...extremely powerful and often unbalanced. However, they can be brought into line with judicious restrictions.

 

Overall, I don't see a huge problem with the basic thing you are trying to accomplish here. I would however point out a few intrinsic downsides that you may not recognize, and also suggest some restrictions that you or your GM might want to consider putting into effect.

 

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Trigger business:

 

What are the two activation clauses for the Multiform triggers? Also, if they overlap each other and the trigger occurs do _both_ multiforms activate, wasting one of them or are the triggers different enough (At Will wouldn't count as an overlap as it is discretionary, but "takes body" or "in danger" or "attacked" would)?

 

Here's the thing with Triggers; they are an Advantage. When you use a Power, while you don't necessarily have to use all the active points, but you do have to use all of its Advantages (and limitations). So, if you put a Trigger on a spell, a literal interpretation of the rules is that you have to activate the spell via its trigger; you can't just "cast it" to activate it directly. This is easily dodged by an "at will" trigger, of course, but otherwise this can be inconvenient.

 

"Trigger requires a Turn or more to reset": this is a spell in a VPP; in such a context you generally would not "reset" the trigger, you would reallocate VPP points to the spell and re-cast it. This is subject to GM interpretation, of course.

 

These triggers are not IPE, so there must be some detectable indication that they are "on".

 

Normally triggered powers can last indefinitely, but as these are spells, some kind of lifespan for the trigger should be defined; 1 DAY is typical in D&D-ish settings wherein casters have to re-buff themselves daily; but some kind of limit should be imposed.

 

If this VPP is open ended / partially cosmic (is not restricted to a finite list of effects to choose from) there is nothing preventing your character from layering on as many triggered effects as they feel like. Something like INT/5 (or EGO/5) could be appropriate. Alternately, it would be reasonable for the GM to say that the meta-effect for this Druid character is assuming the form of an animal and even if you split that out into multiple variations of Multiform / other power constructs only one instance can be on a trigger at a time.

 

Triggered effects can be dispelled. If this setting features magic systems that encourage hanging effects on triggers, dispel options will become more prevalent as well.

 

Other than that, I don't see any issues with your use of Trigger here.

 

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Multiform business:

 

Given that this is a triggered spell that is (generally) cast out of combat and then activated later, Costs Endurance (Only To Change; -1/2) seems inappropriate to me. Costs Endurance (When Cast; -1/2) seems more appropriate / consistent to me.

 

An important consideration for "spell casters", who tend to layer on effects with activation limitation, when you switch forms all the effects on your current form stop working. When you switch back from Feral form or Falcon form, all of your hanging spell effects are off and your druid is reset to their starting state.

 

Also, realize that all of your character's skills and mental capabilities don't come over for free. If you want to maintain your character's personality and mental capacity in the alternate forms, you would need to pay for those abilities. In this case, given you are changing into animal forms, that's probably acceptable and perhaps even desirable from a conceptual perspective.

 

Multiform is subject to GM adjudication, and is a powerful ability (i.e. an easily abused ability) in its own right; combining it with a power framework multiplies this. It is totally reasonable, and I would say recommended, for the GM to put some limits on it.

 

If I were your GM I would let you have (some version) of this ability, but at a minimum I would limit the multiform to not exceed your base character's points.

 

To prevent your "Feral" form from being as good as (perhaps even better than) a dedicated fighter PC of similar points, I would further seek to "poison" the form in some way so that its usage was not a no-brainer...ensure some downside. The classic multiform downside is split or distinct personality. In the case of a "feral" form I might require you to take an Enraged or even a Berserk complication and call it a day...sure you can change, but you may not want to. Another variant on this is difficulty in changing back...if you can control or influence when you change but can't deterministically control when you change back you will have to make a risk assessment each time you change...I like that sort of dramatic tension.

 

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As an aside...this bothers me:

 

27 Detect Magic A Large Class Of Things 13- (Unusual Group), Discriminatory, Analyze, Range, Sense

 

If you base detect magic on sight you can get a big chunk of points back. 27 points is an "ouch"; generally I find that Supernatural Awareness or similar is worth about 10 points or less in most settings.

 

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I find this to be kind of odd:

7 Own that Robe : Naked Advantage - Two levels of Damage Negation, PD & ED, Works Versus Evil. (7 Active Points)

Notes: This is an adder to a magical robe found in game.

 

Do you not get to apply focus to this?

 

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This raises my GM eyebrow; what exactly is this intended to accomplish?

 

0 7) Respec : Minor Transform 9d6 (Original character to respeced character, Another transform) (45 Active Points); Concentration (0 DCV; -1/2), Extra Time (variable) (-1/2), Ego Roll if Stressed (-1/2), Incantations (-1/4), Gestures (-1/4) Real Cost: 15

Notes: The basic character conception must remain the same, this simply allows for the character to be redesigned with existing points. - With Robe Boost, 13 D 6. 4

[Panpiper]

Re: VPs, charges, triggers & multiforms

 

From a concept perspective I'm intrigued by what "Lore of the Rift" might entail. That's a very evocative / enticing name for a skill. I like it.

The GM had described some odd goings on deep in the heart of the 'Great Forest' that my Druid character hails from. There is a central area that is impassable in which dark matters transpire. I remembered very little of the details, including what he had called this place. I wanted a knowledge skill that would reflect him knowing whatever already 'is' known about this area. Not remembering what he called it when I created the character, I penned it thusly, and then never changed it. As is, the GM had me roll the skill at one point to reveal a critical detail about a master lich we found ourselves facing, so whatever it was called, it was doing it's job.

 

Could we see the write up for the robe mentioned in this note?

I don't actually have a write up for this robe. I expect certain details are being deliberately kept from me about it's true nature, but my character does not know this and I am not letting him in on it. I was told that it added 20 active points to my VPP and also conferred 2 levels of damage negation with the -1/2 limitation 'does not work versus evil' (which is narrowly defined in game as a very specific form of unlife).

 

Are there some meta rules / or a system design document describing the magic system this dude practices? Does this character know a finite list of specific spells, or is this partially cosmic / open ended and we are just seeing some "example effects"?

It is partially cosmic. I am allowed to improvise, effectively pulling any effect out of my ass, as long as it does not exceed 15 active points 'and' has some relation to a power effect already defined. Skill rolls 'may' be required. Full power I can only use spells pre-defined (those that are actually on my character sheet), but I can add new spells between game sessions, subject to GM approval of course.

 

What are the two activation clauses for the Multiform triggers? Also, if they overlap each other and the trigger occurs do _both_ multiforms activate, wasting one of them or are the triggers different enough (At Will wouldn't count as an overlap as it is discretionary, but "takes body" or "in danger" or "attacked" would)?

I guess it is not surprise that the triggers are in fact, the initiation of combat, and at will (a power word). Them overlapping never occured to me as I never thought to maintain both of them at once, it was one or the other.

 

Triggered effects can be dispelled. If this setting features magic systems that encourage hanging effects on triggers, dispel options will become more prevalent as well.

We have in fact been hit with an area effect dispel once not long ago, but my character was already in his feral multiform, no triggered effects remaining. His multiform got dispelled and he found himself in his very non-combat form while engaged to that master lich earlier mentioned. That proved to be the lich's undoing actually as my character was then ignored as not being an immediate threat, allowing him to spend a full turn getting off an area effect entangle (two turns actually as I blew my ego roll the first try). The lich was otherwise virtually impossible for our melee characters to hit. Once the lich was entangled, it found it's only option was to play it's ace in the hole and T-port to safety, leaving the day to us. I probably won't get away with that a second time.

 

An important consideration for "spell casters", who tend to layer on effects with activation limitation, when you switch forms all the effects on your current form stop working. When you switch back from Feral form or Falcon form, all of your hanging spell effects are off and your druid is reset to their starting state.

Yes, I've been playing it that way. Scary when you loose your feral multiform's protection in the middle of combat and find yourself without your defensive spells active.

 

If I were your GM I would let you have (some version) of this ability, but at a minimum I would limit the multiform to not exceed your base character's points.

Yes, I have done exactly that.

 

To prevent your "Feral" form from being as good as (perhaps even better than) a dedicated fighter PC of similar points, I would further seek to "poison" the form in some way so that its usage was not a no-brainer...ensure some downside. The classic multiform downside is split or distinct personality. In the case of a "feral" form I might require you to take an Enraged or even a Berserk complication and call it a day...sure you can change, but you may not want to. Another variant on this is difficulty in changing back...if you can control or influence when you change but can't deterministically control when you change back you will have to make a risk assessment each time you change...I like that sort of dramatic tension.

Interesting. We'll give that one some thought.

 

As an aside...this bothers me:

 

27 Detect Magic A Large Class Of Things 13- (Unusual Group), Discriminatory, Analyze, Range, Sense

 

If you base detect magic on sight you can get a big chunk of points back. 27 points is an "ouch"; generally I find that Supernatural Awareness or similar is worth about 10 points or less in most settings.

Yes, it's a lot of points, but I defined it as being; if it's magic and my character can see it, I get to know 'exactly' what the spell is, advantages, limitations, the works. I am not bothered by spending 27 points for the power defined that way. Admittedly, a few extra points to spend on things like not being a total zero in combat if not in feral form might be nice.

 

I find this to be kind of odd:

7 Own that Robe : Naked Advantage - Two levels of Damage Negation, PD & ED, Works Versus Evil. (7 Active Points)

Notes: This is an adder to a magical robe found in game.

 

Do you not get to apply focus to this?

Applying a focus limitation to it never even occurred to me. I think my subconscious was assuming that a naked advantage had to be 'naked'.

 

I defined the advantage as being my character's weaving the found robe into his existing robe as a lining, not just physically but magically and thereby making the magic his own, removing the not versus evil limitation. I see it to some degree as making a down payment on being able to reclaim the effect if ever I were to loose the actual robe, so sinking 7 point now isn't a bad investment. That said, a few extra points to spend on things like not being a total zero in combat if not in feral form might be nice.

 

This raises my GM eyebrow; what exactly is this intended to accomplish?

 

0 7) Respec : Minor Transform 9d6 (Original character to respeced character, Another transform) (45 Active Points); Concentration (0 DCV; -1/2), Extra Time (variable) (-1/2), Ego Roll if Stressed (-1/2), Incantations (-1/4), Gestures (-1/4) Real Cost: 15

Notes: The basic character conception must remain the same, this simply allows for the character to be redesigned with existing points. - With Robe Boost, 13 D 6. 4

We have a few other players who are not very conversant with the rules, who have rather sub-optimum characters. The GM has on at least a couple of occasions intimated that they could sell back rather large expenditures on powers/abilities they found to be less than useful. I wanted to provide an in game logic for them being able to do this. It's has not actually been used as of yet and if it were, it would involve a relatively small amount of character points shifted, so as to stay true to the original conception.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: VPs, charges, triggers & multiforms

 

So basically, this character exists to help compensate for the GM and players and provide a better group experience. That's very supportive of you; I approve. Hopefully your group appreciates your efforts on their behalf.

 

 

Based upon what you've said, and reading between the lines, I would say that if you meant ill or were powergaming you could leverage the core of this character into something very dangerous, but as you are actively self-policing the potential for harm is mitigated. Rock on with your triggered multiform from vpp self!

[jp42]

Re: VPs, charges, triggers & multiforms

 

So basically, this character exists to help compensate for the GM and players and provide a better group experience. That's very supportive of you; I approve. Hopefully your group appreciates your efforts on their behalf.

 

 

Based upon what you've said, and reading between the lines, I would say that if you meant ill or were powergaming you could leverage the core of this character into something very dangerous, but as you are actively self-policing the potential for harm is mitigated. Rock on with your triggered multiform from vpp self!

 

Not based on the specific powers, but on the nature of the character - useful out of combat, facilitating the sort of play that others want to do, and potentially more powerful than anyone could imagine - makes me immediately think of Gandalf in LotR.

[Ice9]

Re: VPs, charges, triggers & multiforms

 

If you base detect magic on sight you can get a big chunk of points back. 27 points is an "ouch"; generally I find that Supernatural Awareness or similar is worth about 10 points or less in most settings.

The way it's written now does have one potentially big advantage - it works like D&D Arcane Sight, allowing you to "see" invisible or hidden creatures/things if they have a magic aura. Not well enough to target them accurately, but enough to drop an AoE on them. If it's not being used that way though, it definitely could be Sight group.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: VPs, charges, triggers & multiforms

 

The way it's written now does have one potentially big advantage - it works like D&D Arcane Sight' date=' allowing you to "see" invisible or hidden creatures/things if they have a magic aura. Not well enough to target them accurately, but enough to drop an AoE on them. If it's not being used that way though, it definitely could be Sight group.[/quote']

 

Sure sure.

 

Actually, I would say that the biggest advantage of any sense bought as a separate sense is that only sense-affecting powers that explicitly target them (likely very rare to non-existent) work vs them.

 

I'm not saying the ability does not have uses, I'm saying 27 points at this power level and considering how thin the character is in some areas is a big deal. I've found that in most games 10 points for this sort of ability tends to be the break even point for most characters, from the perspective of cost effectiveness and opportunity cost. To make 27 points "worth it", to me, the character would have to be _built around_ special awareness and need such an extreme ability and / or have other abilities that synergized with it to defray / justify the cost.

 

But, that's just me. I have a different perspective than many.