Why Don't The Villains Kill?

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Why Don't The Villains Kill?

 

Who has the power to raise the dead?

 

The Universe the characters live in...

[Greywind]

Re: Why Don't The Villains Kill?

 

Yes, but how many villains know they live in a comic book reality?

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Why Don't The Villains Kill?

 

Yes' date=' but how many villains know they live in a comic book reality?[/quote']

 

Three.

[Greywind]

Re: Why Don't The Villains Kill?

 

Loki, Deadpool and who?

[Zen Archer]

Re: Why Don't The Villains Kill?

 

Foxbat?

[Tech]

Re: Why Don't The Villains Kill?

 

For my campaign, there are those villains that would try to kill heroes if given a chance but they never get the chance. I don't intend to upset my players, who happen to be my friends (your character with 400 XP? He's gone.) Also, the heroes cover each other and if there's some hurting going on, the other superheroes intervene. Alot has already been covered such as villains may be thieves but not killers, and so on, so I won't repeat it.

[brionl]

Re: Why Don't The Villains Kill?

 

Loki' date=' Deadpool and who?[/quote']

 

The Nega-Chin. Arch-nemesis of the Crimson Chin.

[phoenix240]

Re: Why Don't The Villains Kill?

 

This thread inspired me to look over the villains and antagonists for my current game and I do have a surprising number of villains that, generally, won't kill. Not allot of them for a moral reasons but more for reason they would call practical (or general squeamishness). The villains that are more willing to kill tend to either be psychopaths that enjoy it or the sort that consider themselves misunderstood heroes or as working for some greater cause that justifies extreme action. I didn't intend to set things up like that; seems to have just happened that way.

[Doctor Agenda]

Re: Why Don't The Villains Kill?

 

Some villains will kill, but it's just as unrealistic to portray them all as casual killers as it is to portray them all as gentleman bandits. It should depend on the villain, and it should go by the villain's character concept. If you've built a greedy bank robber with super strength, getting an opponent to stay down long enough for a getaway should be as much violence as she'll wait for. If you've built a weapon master who has trained for years to be able to take down the hero who slept with his mother, be prepared for him to follow through if he ever has that hero at his mercy...maybe with an ego roll first if he hasn't murdered someone before.

[Greywind]

Re: Why Don't The Villains Kill?

 

It wasn't that he slept with her, it was that he left her because he had too many enemies and didn't want her endangered. She never quite got over that feeling of abandonment.

[Chiba Bob]

Re: Why Don't The Villains Kill?

 

In my superhero campaigns, supervillains, as a rule don't kill superheros for two main reasons.

 

1) The superhero/supervillain community is a close knit group, without some kind of restraint, a cycle of revenge killings would develop (like hatfields vs mccoys), and all would suffer in the end. So to keep things from getting out of hand, the superhero/supervillain community has a unwritten code, “Don't kill one of ours, we won't kill one of yours!” A hero, that does not kill supervillains, it protected by this code should some supervillain get the “upper hand” on them at some point. Moreover, due to the code, superhero/supervillains police their own membership. Villains who kill heroes are treated by the supervillain community much like snitches are treated in the criminal society. Likewise, heroes that kill villains are most likely hunted down by their own teammates (“Heroes, don't look the other way”) to be captured and imprisoned to meet justice for their crimes.

 

2) Government agencies only have so much resources and must prioritize their efforts. Supervillains are all assigned a threat level by these organizations, those villains at the top of the list get priority treatment while those on the bottom are ignored. The fastest way for a supervillain to get to the top of this list is to kill superheroes. Their thinking being, that those villains who are so willing to kill those within their own super community, are more of a danger to the general public, than those that show restraint to killing their own kind. Likewise, heroes who kill villains would be reassigned as a supervillain by these agencies and most likely be given even a higher threat level than a villain would so they could make an example of them.

[Tasha]

Re: Why Don't The Villains Kill?

 

Wolverine is a killer. No qualms and very few regrets. But he'll never kill an important character unless it is for story reasons. Sometimes he screws up and leaves some alive, like those that became the Reavers.

 

Heroes without armor get shot all the time.

 

That's the common assumption. I will accept that he was a killer back in his past previous to his joining the X-men. He now only seems to kill if he has no other alternative. Basically the same assumption that the rest of the xmen have.

 

This is seporate from his feud with Sabertooth and other regenerators. Where he knows that he can use the claws indiscriminately with those few characters. In fact is one of his only edges (no pun intended) when fighting such characters. He in those circumstances has little chance of killing one of his foes.

 

I think if one looks back at the stories set in the modern era. Logan really doesn't have much of a body count. No where near as high as his reputation makes him out to have. In fact he uses that rep to bluff people more often than not. (ie I don't remember him ever popping that middle claw up through someone's head like he threatens to).

[Lucius]

Re: Why Don't The Villains Kill?

 

Some villains will kill' date=' but it's just as unrealistic to portray them all as casual killers as it is to portray them all as gentleman bandits. It should depend on the villain, and it should go by the villain's character concept. If you've built a greedy bank robber with super strength, getting an opponent to stay down long enough for a getaway should be as much violence as she'll wait for. If you've built a weapon master who has trained for years to be able to take down the hero who slept with his mother, be prepared for him to follow through if he ever has that hero at his mercy...maybe with an ego roll first if he hasn't murdered someone before.[/quote']

 

Wait! Before you kill me you need to know - I am your father!

 

Lucius Alexander

 

I am your palindromedary

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Why Don't The Villains Kill?

 

Loki' date=' Deadpool and who?[/quote']

 

Deadpool, Ambush Bug, and Foxbat.

[Greywind]

Re: Why Don't The Villains Kill?

 

That's the common assumption. I will accept that he was a killer back in his past previous to his joining the X-men. He now only seems to kill if he has no other alternative. Basically the same assumption that the rest of the xmen have.

 

This is seporate from his feud with Sabertooth and other regenerators. Where he knows that he can use the claws indiscriminately with those few characters. In fact is one of his only edges (no pun intended) when fighting such characters. He in those circumstances has little chance of killing one of his foes.

 

I think if one looks back at the stories set in the modern era. Logan really doesn't have much of a body count. No where near as high as his reputation makes him out to have. In fact he uses that rep to bluff people more often than not. (ie I don't remember him ever popping that middle claw up through someone's head like he threatens to).

I look at that as maturity and character growth.

 

Deadpool' date=' Ambush Bug, and Foxbat.[/quote']You're leaving out Loki and I question Foxbat being a "comic book character". He was a game character first and foremost.

[steriaca]

Re: Why Don't The Villains Kill?

 

OK. My views on things.

 

Villians I write up do kill IF it is in there personality to do so. For example, Mister Wicked is a slimeball to the 10th degree. He is a man with a huge DiD fetish ("Damsel in Distress"), along with being a bondage top, and an attatude of 'the rich can do anything we want, to whoever we want, whenever we want'. So, yes, he is a killer.

 

Queen Nightmaria can and does kill, and did so to create her "Court of Hate". But she needs most of her subjects alive, because the dead usaly generate no dark emotions (only the living do that...normaly), and without that, she will starve.

 

Doctor Dair is a rich man, but unlike Mister Wicked, he is a thieth more than anything else. He steals as a chalange. He means nobody any perament harm, and is ment to be a fun villian. Heck, he even has an 'images' generater defined as a 'Theamsong Beltbuckel" (which is basicly a fancy MP3 player for music).

 

It all depends on the villian, and what your ideal for him/her is.

[BoloOfEarth]

Re: Why Don't The Villains Kill?

 

Most of my villains do not kill, whether PC heroes or NPC supers or NPC normals. For most, it's just not their way (as someone else said, they're thieves, not murderers). For others, they fear the consequences of bumping somebody off. Same thing with VIPER agents, really, since most of them understand the repercussions if they do kill somebody.

 

That said, I do have bad guys who will kill if it's absolutely necessary, others who would kill if it fits their plan or the money's right, and others who would kill because it's Tuesday or they simply didn't like the guy's eye color. It all depends upon the psychological makeup of the individual.

 

I've even had entire villain groups who were casual killers. Combats involving them can be difficult, because I don't like to kill off player characters based on something stupid like the dice just not going their way that particular night. (I had this happen early in my GM-ing carreer, and it left a bad taste in everybody's mouth.) In general, those villains don't appear to pull their punches so much, but rather make some tactical errors in who they target or what they attack them with.

[Chuckg]

Re: Why Don't The Villains Kill?

 

There have been a debate on whether superheroes should kill or not, but what about the villains. What's to keep the madmen, evil scientist, masterminds, and other psychos from finishing off the heroes.

 

For example, Dr. Sivana has known Billy Batson is Captain Marvel. Why not just shoot him and be done with it?

Because for Dr. Sivana, its not about surviving, its about winning. Shooting Billy Batson is admitting that he doesn't have the mojo to take down Captain Marvel.

 

Why does Lex Luthor constantly fail to build a kryptonite weapon to destroy Superman once and for all?

Um, being fair to Lex Luthor, he's tried to kill Superman with Kryptonite and without more times than I can count. His 'Kill Superman' R&D budget ran to literal billions of dollars. Superman is just that competent at not being killed.

 

The Joker regularly kills people, but never Batman.

Movie Bane actually said it most succinctly -- "Your punishment must be more severe."

 

Do your villains kill the heroes?

Of course it ultimately depends on which villain, which hero, and which storyline, but... more often than not, my general run of NPC supervillain tends to be goal-oriented rather than personal vendetta. They use as much force as necessary and/or they're comfortable with to get the heroes out of their way so they can get what they're after -- and yes, a lot of the time that's lethal force -- but they'll stop shooting once they've got a clear path to where they're going, instead of 'no, this does not stop until one of us is dead'.

[Egyptoid]

Re: Why Don't The Villains Kill?

 

Don't you have to look at a villains Psych Complications?

 

IMHO, unless he's got the full 25 point "Murderous", then he would only kill

if and when opponents (not necessarily heroes) got too close to his pet peeves or ulterior goals.

 

like if he was "Crazy about Fine Art and Sculpture", then he might lash out and kill

some oaf that shattered the Michelangelo he was planning on stealing.

[Greywind]

Re: Why Don't The Villains Kill?

 

Well, no, because if you really want to you can just add it on after the fact.

[BlackEagle]

Re: Why Don't The Villains Kill?

 

I think Villons like the Joker and Lex Luthor dont kill their super enamy because they like the chase. They see chasing their hero as a game. They never actualy want the game to end. So they put their hero into situations they know they will eventualy escape from just so they can be chased again. I think the chairacter that realy braught that out was the Joker of the 60s. To them its an adrinalin rush. Thats why it will never be an end to their game. If the game ends it defeats the purpous.

[psyber624]

Re: Why Don't The Villains Kill?

 

IMHO, unless he's got the full 25 point "Murderous", then he would only kill

if and when opponents (not necessarily heroes) got too close to his pet peeves or ulterior goals.

 

Not necessarily. Psychological Complications represent facets of your personality you have trouble controlling (which is why you need EGO rolls to overcome them). Someone with Murderous therefore would have to make the required roll NOT to kill someone he was attacking (or at least try to).

 

Not having a Psych Comp however in NO WAY limits your actions. Someone who likes to kill but can easily control it wouldn't have to take the Murderous Complication, but could easily have a higher body count than someone who does. He enjoys killing, but if he doesn't want to kill someone (for any reason) he simply doesn't do it, no EGO roll required.

[psyber624]

Re: Why Don't The Villains Kill?

 

I think Villons like the Joker and Lex Luthor dont kill their super enamy because they like the chase. They see chasing their hero as a game. They never actualy want the game to end. So they put their hero into situations they know they will eventualy escape from just so they can be chased again. I think the chairacter that realy braught that out was the Joker of the 60s. To them its an adrinalin rush. Thats why it will never be an end to their game. If the game ends it defeats the purpous.

 

Joker I will agree with you on. Several authors have even depicted him as being severely depressed on occasions where he THOUGHT he killed Batman.

 

Lex Luthor on the other hand actively and obsessively tries to kill Superman. He has devoted exorbitant amounts of time and resources to that very goal. While I have not read every Superman comic out there in the situations where I have seen Lex kill (or at least think he kills) Superman he has, at most, a moment of reflection to mourn the passing of a worthy adversary, then he sets out on the full fledged "Power Trip Party" where he celebrates all he can do now that Supes is dead. Luthor might miss Superman when he is gone, but would never hesitate to kill him because of that (he is way to driven to achieve his goals.)

[phoenix240]

Re: Why Don't The Villains Kill?

 

Joker I will agree with you on. Several authors have even depicted him as being severely depressed on occasions where he THOUGHT he killed Batman.

 

Lex Luthor on the other hand actively and obsessively tries to kill Superman. He has devoted exorbitant amounts of time and resources to that very goal. While I have not read every Superman comic out there in the situations where I have seen Lex kill (or at least think he kills) Superman he has, at most, a moment of reflection to mourn the passing of a worthy adversary, then he sets out on the full fledged "Power Trip Party" where he celebrates all he can do now that Supes is dead. Luthor might miss Superman when he is gone, but would never hesitate to kill him because of that (he is way to driven to achieve his goals.)

 

Luthor does seem to have perverse love/hate relationship with Superman in some portrayals, doesn't he?

[psyber624]

Re: Why Don't The Villains Kill?

 

Personally I think it is a truly potent cocktail of jealousy, anger, respect, contempt, and a dash of fear. Luthor is just a man. Superman is only just shy of being a GOD in most people's eye. Supes could squash Luthor like a bug and not even notice he did it if he wasn't careful. Luthor wants that kind of power, and is constantly frustrated by Superman's ability to overcome any obstacle in his path. However, Luthor respects power and determination and focus on ones goals, all of which can definitely be applied to Supes. He has spent considerable amount of time trying to convert Superman to his side as well as kill him. So yeah, while he hates Superman for constantly thwarting his lofty plans and schemes, and for keeping him (Luthor) from achieving the level of power and glory Luthor feels he deserves, he also wants to BE Superman quite badly (especially since he wouldn't have Supes "hang-ups" and could do MUCH more with his powers than Supes does.)