Cassandra Posted September 9, 2012 Report Share Posted September 9, 2012 There have been a debate on whether superheroes should kill or not, but what about the villains. What's to keep the madmen, evil scientist, masterminds, and other psychos from finishing off the heroes. For example, Dr. Sivana has known Billy Batson is Captain Marvel. Why not just shoot him and be done with it? Why does Lex Luthor constantly fail to build a kryptonite weapon to destroy Superman once and for all? The Joker regularly kills people, but never Batman. Okay, the Joker thinks Batman is too much fun, and Lex would rather humiliate and destroy Superman before finishing him off, but you get the idea. Do you're villains kill the heroes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted September 9, 2012 Report Share Posted September 9, 2012 Re: Why Don't The Villains Kill? Depends on the villain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fbdaury Posted September 9, 2012 Report Share Posted September 9, 2012 Re: Why Don't The Villains Kill? I think in the comics, many of the villains become villains due to the appearance of the hero, or as a result of the hero's actions, creating a deep subconcious link with the hero in that villain's mind and this link then acts as a "mental failsafe" that causes the villain to do something grandiose and inefficient to kill the hero instead of just taking a crowbar to the head of the downed hero, like the Joker did to Jason Todd. In game? Guess that's part of the rt of creating a good villain- figuring if they would do it and why or why not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cygnia Posted September 9, 2012 Report Share Posted September 9, 2012 Re: Why Don't The Villains Kill? Escalation of the stakes. If you get a reputation of using lethal force, the authorities will answer in kind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrosshairCollie Posted September 9, 2012 Report Share Posted September 9, 2012 Re: Why Don't The Villains Kill? 1. Sometimes, the villains do kill. Just never the main character. Why? Because that would end the book. 2. To paraphrase Batman, in his 'Matches Malone' persona, after beating the heck out of Robin in a Batman costume (long story) ... "Nah, ya kill him and you got a million other super-dudes on your case!" Besides the fact that being a criminal doesn't automatically make you a killer ... if you kill a good guy, every good guy who had been holding back against you is probably going to stop holding back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. MID-Nite Posted September 10, 2012 Report Share Posted September 10, 2012 Re: Why Don't The Villains Kill? Not all villains are casual killers with no regard for human life....for those that are...yes...they may kill the hero. Obviously, something usually prevents that(so that the series may continue). Other bad guys might have the attitude to kill the heroes, but would rather toy with them(the old make them suffer a fate worse than death kind of thing). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikModi Posted September 10, 2012 Report Share Posted September 10, 2012 Re: Why Don't The Villains Kill? Think about this truism: "There's no safe place on Earth for a cop-killer." Now give the "cops" in question heat vision, the ability to lift a couple hundred tons, energy blasts that can shatter concrete, mental abilities that can make you spend the rest of your life thinking you're an eight-year-old girl, etc., and you see why some villains might be reticent about actually killing a hero. Crazy as the Joker is, you can be damn sure every time he thinks about killing Batman, he's calculating how long he'll last when Superman comes to collect. And with heroes like Superman, the above phrase gains several points in Megascale. Comic books, and a lot of other serial media, I think skated for a long time on the idea that "this is the way it is." Heroes and villains don't kill each other because, well, the story gets pretty boring of the hero has no villains to fight, and the story effectively ends if the hero dies. More recently, I think, coming up with valid reasons why villains don't kill heroes has become more important (heroes still tend to skate on the "heroes don't kill" trope, though this is changing a bit, either finding reasons why heroes choose not to kill or creating heroes who have no problem killing.) It could be that the hero and villain are just that good, never giving the other opportunities to outright kill them. It may be some kind of "I want you to admit I'm right" thing, or quirky obsessive relationship, or the afforementioned fear of killing Batman only to have Superman give you a two-mile atomic wedgie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted September 10, 2012 Report Share Posted September 10, 2012 Re: Why Don't The Villains Kill? Joker? Probably not. Batman isn't on the Joker's "safe to kill" list. Not because of Superman, but because he'd be bored silly without Batman to play games with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulcan Posted September 10, 2012 Report Share Posted September 10, 2012 Re: Why Don't The Villains Kill? Besides, the Joker is well aware that Batman is just as crazy - in his own way - as he is. There's a sort of odd kinship there. Besides, Batman being absolutely incapable of deliberately killing is a strong defense for the Joker. He knows his current nemesis won't kill him no matter what he does to Batman and company. If he takes out Batman, whoever takes his place might not be so accomodating... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix240 Posted September 10, 2012 Report Share Posted September 10, 2012 Re: Why Don't The Villains Kill? Meta: Killing off the main character ends the books/series/franchise. Generally not a good move In character: Varies by the villain. Some just aren't killers by nature and don't want blood on their hands, some don't think its worth it (escalation, retaliation, murder raps carry a longer sentence than assault, etc) even sadism (the dead can't be made to suffer)*. *Generally, but these are comic books we're talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egyptoid Posted September 10, 2012 Report Share Posted September 10, 2012 Re: Why Don't The Villains Kill? they do when I GM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gojira Posted September 11, 2012 Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 Re: Why Don't The Villains Kill? murder raps carry a longer sentence than assault This is my main reason also. In a semi-realistic (or realistic) game, many villains don't want a murder-one charge against them. If you're a super villain, you have a lot of capability that other criminal lack. This includes the ability to disable, rather than kill outright, civilans, bank guards, and cops. So why not use that capability to your advantage? There doesn't seem (to me) to be any upside to killing, so unless a villain is supposed to be completely amoral, a socipath, or bloodthirsty, it seems to me that any villain should stop well short of murder. Even a sadist or sociopath would try to hide any murders they commit. One would have to have a complete disregard for human morals and/or human empathy to just casually kill people because it was possible to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordOmega Posted September 11, 2012 Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 Re: Why Don't The Villains Kill? Yes I have had Villians kill nova and one pc character. Heroes and Villians have a ying @yang type relationship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix240 Posted September 11, 2012 Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 Re: Why Don't The Villains Kill? I have villains that will kill in my campaigns. Intentionally, accidentally, through callous disregard, or whatever reason too. In highly violent worlds with such constant power struggles and battles with incredible powers for huge stakes, to me it only makes sense that some times people will die and that some will consider the price worth it (on both sides of the law). But I took the thread as approaching the question from a more four color/"typical comic" point of view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted September 11, 2012 Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 Re: Why Don't The Villains Kill? I have villains that will kill. I have had PCs die. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion Posted September 11, 2012 Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 Re: Why Don't The Villains Kill? Because the writer and/or company doesn't want them to. No other reason. If the vicious drug cartel somehow manages to get lucky enough to get the drop on SuperGuy, they would kill him, just like they have killed many before. But, the company doesn't want this, and so they don't. It isn't about what the villains believe or fear might happen, it's just a meta business thing. No different than the heroes never accidentally punch someone too hard and break a neck, and heroes without any armor never get shot, and heroes never have an actual affect on crime. It's just the way it is, regardless of how silly it is. Like Egyptoid, my villains do kill on occasion. Not all do, but some do, because some criminals are just that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted September 11, 2012 Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 Re: Why Don't The Villains Kill? Wolverine is a killer. No qualms and very few regrets. But he'll never kill an important character unless it is for story reasons. Sometimes he screws up and leaves some alive, like those that became the Reavers. Heroes without armor get shot all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheQuestionMan Posted September 11, 2012 Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 Re: Why Don't The Villains Kill? Same reason Superheroes do not kill. Escalation. Kill a Cop and you get the whole Law Enforcement World decending upon you and everyone you deal with. It is bad for business and personal health. QM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrosshairCollie Posted September 11, 2012 Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 Re: Why Don't The Villains Kill? Same reason Superheroes do not kill. Escalation. Kill a Cop and you get the whole Law Enforcement World decending upon you and everyone you deal with. It is bad for business and personal health. QM Even beyond that, just because one is a criminal doesn't make one a killer. Yes, there are villains who kill casually. There are those who will kill in dire straits. There are some who aren't grounded in reality enough to realize what they're doing. But some (and I would wager most) are not killers, either by nature or nurture, and while they may not have a CvK or be averse to issuing a few bruises and cuts, don't kill simply because they don't want to for its own sake. There's wrong, and then there's WRONG, and they won't cross that line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus Impudite Posted September 12, 2012 Report Share Posted September 12, 2012 Re: Why Don't The Villains Kill? There's always the "I'm a thief, not a murderer" mentality. It goes without saying that the Johnny Laws and the Do-Gooders tend to treat the mad dog killer type much more harshly than the guy who doesn't resort to lethal force most of the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted September 12, 2012 Report Share Posted September 12, 2012 Re: Why Don't The Villains Kill? The villains that resort to lethal force tend to get relegated to mental institutions instead of prisons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulcan Posted September 12, 2012 Report Share Posted September 12, 2012 Re: Why Don't The Villains Kill? Same reason Superheroes do not kill. Escalation. Kill a Cop and you get the whole Law Enforcement World decending upon you and everyone you deal with. It is bad for business and personal health. QM Which is why cops in the real world never get ki... oh, wait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheeljack Posted September 13, 2012 Report Share Posted September 13, 2012 Re: Why Don't The Villains Kill? Don't forget about drama... Villains tend towards the grand gesture and the theatrical approach even if they're gritty. Killing your heroic rival isn't enough, proving you're better than he is is what matters. Could be honor behind it, or psychosis or just loneliness... Villains don't often have a lot of friends and many of their peers are completely untrustworthy. Even if you're trying to defeat the Crimson Crusader as part of your master plan, you know him and have for years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maccabe Posted September 14, 2012 Report Share Posted September 14, 2012 Re: Why Don't The Villains Kill? Actually with the power to raise the dead available why DON'T the villians kill ?????? Killing a superhero the seventh time is just as much fun as the first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted September 14, 2012 Report Share Posted September 14, 2012 Re: Why Don't The Villains Kill? Who has the power to raise the dead? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.