What do I need? New to HERO.

[Tim Madigan]

So, I have been a GM for around 15 years, and have managed to keep HERO system in my periphery because I have always been intimidated by it's flexibility, seeming complexity, and sheer number of available material. But as I've aged I've found most other systems lacking in delivering exactly what it is that I want out of my RPG.

 

My homebrew setting is a dark, low fantasy and deadly world. And having recently played in a Con game set in a similar world, using the HERO system, I want to know what books/resources I should get started with.

 

My gaming group is wary of HERO for the same reasons as I am, so I want to start with a low complexity game, so not too many supplements.

 

I imagine that the HERO Fantasy book would be almost a given. But is it self contained, or do I need the Core book Vol 1 & 2?

 

I want my setting to make use of several different kinds of magic systems: channeling, summoning, blood magic, alchemy etc, and I want it to feature a gritty combat style that will lead to permanent or long lasting injuries, but also to be incremental (meaning that you can acquire/inflict such a wound before killing your opponent).

 

I would also like a cinematic element that would give some narrative ability to the players, such as spending one of a limited number of available "fate" points to change some aspect of the game play.

 

What sorts of resources are available for me? I'm just a little overwhelmed by the sheer volume of available content for HERO.

 

Thanks in advance!

 

Tim

[Hyper-Man]

Re: What do I need? New to HERO.

 

All you absolutely need is the core rulebooks. Everything else is either advanced rules (APG1&2), prebuilt stuff (Martial Arts, Equipment Guide) or genre specific advice (like Fantasy Hero) that just saves you the time and work of creating it all from scratch.

[Lucius]

Re: What do I need? New to HERO.

 

So' date=' I have been a GM for around 15 years, and have managed to keep HERO system in my periphery because I have always been intimidated by it's flexibility, seeming complexity, and sheer number of available material. But as I've aged I've found most other systems lacking in delivering exactly what it is that I want out of my RPG.[/quote']

 

I think that drew a lot of us to Hero.

 

My homebrew setting is a dark, low fantasy and deadly world. And having recently played in a Con game set in a similar world, using the HERO system, I want to know what books/resources I should get started with.

 

My gaming group is wary of HERO for the same reasons as I am, so I want to start with a low complexity game, so not too many supplements.

 

I imagine that the HERO Fantasy book would be almost a given. But is it self contained, or do I need the Core book Vol 1 & 2?

 

Fantasy Hero is NOT self contained. You'll need some version of the core rules.

 

Vol 1 is still available from the Hero Store; it's marked as "damaged" but most of the time you'll never notice the so-called damage to the cover. In any case it's perfectly serviceable and marked down from the original price.

 

There is also a "Basic" version of the rules that comes complete in one volume, certainly cheaper, but leaves out a number of Skills, Powers, and other Options. But you can run a game with it; people certainly do.

 

A more "concise" version of the rules is coming soon in one volume which will include all Skills and Powers, etc, but trims word count by cutting out a lot of explanatory detail and examples. It will ALSO include something you don't need, genre-specific material for comic book superhero games, but we've been assured it will still have all the rules you need for a gritty, high-lethality, your-character-should-get-Accidental-Death&Dismemberment-Insurance-if-available game.

 

I want my setting to make use of several different kinds of magic systems: channeling' date=' summoning, blood magic, alchemy etc, [/quote']

 

Then perhaps the Fantasy Hero book is a worthwhile investment. I believe you'll find a number of example magic systems and suggestions on creating them.

 

and I want it to feature a gritty combat style that will lead to permanent or long lasting injuries' date=' but also to be incremental (meaning that you can acquire/inflict such a wound before killing your opponent). [/quote']

 

Then check out the Hit Location and Impairing and Disabling rules.

 

I would also like a cinematic element that would give some narrative ability to the players' date=' such as spending one of a limited number of available "fate" points to change some aspect of the game play.[/quote']

 

The first Advanced Player's Guide has something called "Heroic Action Points." If you don't want to shell out for that (you'll be buying the core rules and probably Fantasy Hero in any case) I will say that my impression of such systems is that they are not too hard to "bolt on" to ANY given underlying game engine, so in other words, if you're already using something like that, you may be able to port it in. If you'd like something rooted in the Core Rules as Written, definitely take a look at how Luck works. Just as every character starts with a certain amount of Running for free, you can say all your player characters automatically have some level of Luck without paying for it.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Palindromedary Hero

[Jhaierr]

Re: What do I need? New to HERO.

 

I want my setting to make use of several different kinds of magic systems: channeling' date=' summoning, blood magic, alchemy etc[.']

 

Bear in mind that Fantasy Hero does not contain a complete magic system; it describes how to create one. The Hero System Grimoire book has a ton of spells made just for this, however. I would recommend the core books (either 6E1&2 or wait for Champions Complete in a few months), the Hero System Grimoire for the spells, and Fantasy Hero for all the ideas and interesting concepts related to running fantasy campaigns.

 

I want it to feature a gritty combat style that will lead to permanent or long lasting injuries' date=' but also to be incremental (meaning that you can acquire/inflict such a wound before killing your opponent).[/quote']

 

You will definitely be able to achieve this using the standard Disabling/Impairment and Hit Location rules (a.k.a., "heroic" rules options) and other related options. When you get the core rules in whatever book you decide to get, just make sure to review those options and use them.

[Jhaierr]

Re: What do I need? New to HERO.

 

Then check out the Hit Location and Impairing and Disabling rules.

 

Naturally I somehow didn't see that Lucius said this until after I posted.

[Christopher]

Re: What do I need? New to HERO.

 

do I need the Core book Vol 1 & 2?

Aboslutely.

As others pointed out thier avalibility in Print is currently limited. The Didigal Version are a lot easier to come by.

And of course there will be Champions Complete.

 

I want my setting to make use of several different kinds of magic systems: channeling' date=' summoning, blood magic, alchemy etc, [/quote']

How different are they mechanically? I could do the same spells for each group, and give each of them a different list of limitations (that sume up to the same Limitation value) and thus had very different kinds of magic systems with little to no difference in the rules and the same Costs.

 

and I want it to feature a gritty combat style that will lead to permanent or long lasting injuries' date=' but also to be incremental (meaning that you can acquire/inflict such a wound before killing your opponent).[/quote']

By default body heals very slow while Stun heals very fast, just limiting the availibility of magic healing can influence that a lot.

Impairing and Disable Rules have been noted by others.

Blooding and Disabling rules might also help.

 

But what IMHO helps the most, is the ratio between average DC and maximum Defenses.

Heroic Games tend to have it at 1 DC too 1-1.5 Defenses, 50% of that Resistant. The lower the overall Defenses go, the shorter the fights (sometimes even through STUN loss) and the more likely you take Body from normal Damage Attacks (most blunt weapon count as those). The lower Resistant Defenses defenses mean Killing Attacks are more likely to do Body.

 

I would also like a cinematic element that would give some narrative ability to the players' date=' such as spending one of a limited number of available "fate" points to change some aspect of the game play.[/quote']

Giving them Cinematic elements somewhat runs counter to making the game gritty.

There is also no existing mechnic or rules to give the player narrative ability.

Heroic Action Points are definetely worth a look, as well as this Thread about the Power Luck and how it is used (or not used):

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php/90621-What-version-of-Luck-do-you-use-in-your-game-and-why

 

What sorts of resources are available for me? I'm just a little overwhelmed by the sheer volume of available content for HERO.

Every book has something you could use. I have no information regarding the Fantasy books, but teh APG's are a combination of errata/rules explanations and a few ne powers/advantages/limitations that could be usefull for every kind of game.

[Tim Madigan]

Re: What do I need? New to HERO.

 

I want to thank everyone for giving me a direction to go looking. My next question was going to be where I can find these books (as I was having difficulty finding them on the HERO shopping site) but you guys have cleared that up for me as well.

 

So, thanks again! I will hit you up if (when) I have more questions.

[gojira]

Re: What do I need? New to HERO.

 

If you go to the main landing page, there's a link in the upper right, "Visit the Hero Store."

 

http://www.herogames.com/home.htm

 

Here's a direct link to the core books:

 

https://www.herogames.com/viewItem.htm?itemID=256527

https://www.herogames.com/viewItem.htm?itemID=240411

 

* * *

 

I have a question for ya: What game did you play at the Con? Who ran it? Because knowing a bit more about what it was might help us to direct you what you really need to get.

[rstehwien]

Re: What do I need? New to HERO.

 

Here's a direct link to the core books:

 

https://www.herogames.com/viewItem.htm?itemID=256527

https://www.herogames.com/viewItem.htm?itemID=240411

Important to note that the warning "Damaged Cover" really means there is likely just some small scuff or dogeared corner. I'm very happy with my damaged cover and keep wishing more of the books would meet such an unfortunate accident so I could get a discount .

 

Others were right on the money. Get the 2 core books or wait for Champions Complete (still wish it wasn't champions focused and just was "Hero Complete"). That is all you need really if you are willing to "do the math" and make everything else up. Fantasy Hero gives some great design ideas and I'd really recommend it.

 

After all that, there are some supplements that would provide premade goodies: Grimoire for spells, maybe some of the new Magic Spells pdfs for more spells, the Besitary for monsters. You could even reach back to hero 5th edition things like "Enchanted Items", the Asian Bestiary, and others. Converting isn't that hard.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: What do I need? New to HERO.

 

Running the 6th edition HERO for fantasy, you would need the Core books (volume 1 and 2), the Fantasy Hero book (for a how-to guide on using the rules in the core books for the fantasy genre) and the Monster book (so you don't have to do the stats on the creatures yourself...that would be time consuming!) and with those 4, you would be good to go. And yes, the Grimoire would make creating magical spells quite a bit easier, but if you are going magic lite, you don't really need it.

[Markdoc]

Re: What do I need? New to HERO.

 

Actually, I'd also note that while the Fantasy book is a good read, there's absolutely nothing in it that is essential. The same goes for the bestiary: a lot of low fantasy games don't run to vast menageries of weird-ass monsters, so that's optional too. The core books and some good ideas are all you really need to get going: the other books are luxuries that give you source material you can quickly draw on.

 

cheers, Mark

[Markdoc]

Re: What do I need? New to HERO.

 

Oh, and it strikes me that no-one has made one important comment: that although the Hero system looks pretty complex, most of that complexity is front-loaded. Meaning it is all about character generation. Because what characters can and can't do is pretty clearly defined, I find actually running the game pretty straightforward. The combat section does repay reading through a few times to get a sense of how it's meant to run as a GM, but many of my long-time players have never "learnt" combat as such - they just tell me what they want to do, and it's easy for me to work out the results.

 

cheers, Mark

[Barwickian]

Re: What do I need? New to HERO.

 

Oh' date=' and it strikes me that no-one has made one important comment: that although the Hero system looks pretty complex, most of that complexity is front-loaded. Meaning it is all about character [b']generation[/b]. Because what characters can and can't do is pretty clearly defined, I find actually running the game pretty straightforward. The combat section does repay reading through a few times to get a sense of how it's meant to run as a GM, but many of my long-time players have never "learnt" combat as such - they just tell me what they want to do, and it's easy for me to work out the results.

 

I think this may be a defining concept of Hero System. Play is indeed simple, once you have the core concepts, but also very flexible. My players love the tactical options, and particularly the Presence Attack.

 

The complexity lies not just in character generation (that's really Stage Two of running a Hero campaign), but in deciding how the setting will work (Stage One). Mostly that's an issue of choosing which options to use and how to make them work.

 

The fewer optional rules, and the more guidelines/package deals you use for chargen, the simpler Stage One and Two become.

 

On which books are absolutely necessary, I'd class the core rulebooks (vol 1 and 2) as luxuries in most cases. All you really need is the Basic Rulebook (which is still available in both brint and PDF form). Basic skips all of the optional rules and some of the powers and power modifiers, but it's a workable, self-contained version of Hero.

 

However, your campaign, being grim and gritty, will likely benefit from the extra detail and optional rules of Core Rules Vol 1 and 2. I think you'd also benefit from Fantasy Hero, which discusses a number of grittier rules variants for fantasy games, and also has more detailed examples of fantasy/historical arms and armour than you'll find in the core rules. It also has a discussion on how to use the core rules to create custom magic systems.

 

Most of the other books are support. Bestiary, Grimoire and Martial Arts don't provide much (or any) new rules; they take what's in the core rules and use that to build pregenerated monsters, spells and martial arts manoeuvres and styles. You don't technically need any of them, but they are big time savers if you're happy to use off-the-peg builds.

[Christopher]

Re: What do I need? New to HERO.

 

Just an idea, as alternative the the full Monster Manual or Grimioure:

Steve long has been bringing out small books, each containing X amount of Monsters or Spells (with X usually havign 2 digits at least) with a Certain Theme:

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php/91115-New-PDF-From-Steve-SKELETONS?p=2380057#post2380057