esampson Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design. Yeah. I can definitely see that. To be fair though you should probably amend "...as I envision him". Trying to figure out what are the extreme cases that should be rejected is hard enough but there's also an issue with the escalation of power that most characters go through. Let's not forget that while Spiderman has soloed the Sinister Six he's also had problems fighting The Enforcers, who consist of someone who originally was just a really strong guy (not even superhumanly strong originally), a guy who knew kung fu, and some dude with a rope. And then on top of all that we get into issues of 'proper benchmarks' that don't really need rehashing. So trying to line up the stats on characters (this isn't limited to Spiderman) means agreeing on scale, time period, and even then dealing with lots of inconsistencies within that time period. Frankly I think its something of a small miracle that we even agree on the power sets (and in fact we don't always). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blau Stern Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design. He's not doing it with a 40 strength that's for sure. I'm not sure who spread the rumor that "opinions can't be wrong" but that is an outright lie, because they can be based on bad information or simply poorly-formed. Heck, things we understand as FACTS can be wrong, because they are poorly formed or based on bad information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design. "Envisioning" was implied with "opinion". That's the main reason, aside from not wanting to run a AU of someone else's established continuity, that I won't allow recognized characters to appear in my game without the serial numbers filed off and the name changed. Not worth the "but you did it wrong" or "he'd never do that" arguments that cluster up a game session. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esampson Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design. Sorry, Grey. I was actually replying to Blau Stern. I meant that the write-ups weren't strong enough for Spiderman as he envisioned him. Your reply to him snuck in before I was done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design. Type faster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esampson Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design. OkIfiguredthatifIleaveoffallthespacesandpunctuationmarksIcanincreasemytypingbyalmost10percentDoyouthinkthatwillhelp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design. Sure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSgt Baloo Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design. I still assert that in a universe where the one and only Superman has a 40 Strength, then that's his strength, if only in that setting. Maybe in that universe superheroes aren't as tough as we would expect or perhaps in that particular universe Superman is just a second or third tier Superhero. Maybe in that universe it's "Look! Up in the sky! It's a bird! It's a Plane! Aw, shoot! It's just Superman. Again!!" You don't seem to have grasped that few of us care whether their Superman model is accurate so long as we get to do the "Superman stuff" that goes along with it (bending metals, one-punching mooks, walking through a hail of bullets unharmed; that sort of thing). All but one of my Superman clones wasn't even called Superman. So why is it important? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design. .. And for being Cosmic, Spider-Man laid out Firelord. Link to original 7 year old discussion thread: Spiderman Vs. Firelord And here is the link to the first of two play-by-play videos of the comic book action: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSgt Baloo Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design. One of the things about Marvel I liked? They had better-sounding effects (at least I thought so at the time.) Damn! Now I want pizza! Now I think Spiderman is the Marvel Universe's analogue to Dial M for Monkey? The story also reminds me of the end of this one: http://youtu.be/PIdJR_Cc-5A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RexMundi Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design. Link to original 7 year old discussion thread: Spiderman Vs. Firelord And here is the link to the first of two play-by-play videos of the comic book action: I keep telling people Spider-Man died in that issue. The current Spider-Man is a clone. ~Rex....stopped buying the Spider-man comics (except for the occasional graphic novel) with that issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix240 Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design. Maybe this discussion should be taken to another thread? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design. Maybe this discussion should be taken to another thread? I agree, that's why I provided the link to the 7 year old thread. I just didn't want the bad karma that comes with such a resurrection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design. Children shouldn't play with dead things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassandra Posted August 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design. My Superman has 60 STR when he adds the +20 from the Multipower. It's him channeling his Yellow Sun Energy into his strength. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RexMundi Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design. Half tempted to post a few character builds..... Been converting a lot of stuff over lately. Keep meaning to get them all posted since a lot of it would play into this thread but so danged busy real world like that little bit of time just isn't there yet...... Fortunately, starting tomorrow I'm taking 5 days off. Granted one of those days is consumed with getting snarked at by health care professionals and family in regards to that but that should leave at least one day for Post-A-Palooza..... ~Rex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassandra Posted August 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design. Superman Val Char Cost 40*/15 STR 25 14 DEX 12 25*/13 CON 25 12*/10 BODY 0 13 INT 3 10 EGO 0 15 PRE 5 14 COM 2 22*/8 PD 12 12*/6 ED 6 5*/3 SPD 22 15*/6 REC 0 50*/26 END 0 45*/25 STUN 0 Total Characteristics Cost: 118 Points Cost Skills 2 AK: Metropolis 11- 6 Combat Luck +3 rPD +3 rED 5 CSL: HTH Combat +1 1 FB: Press Pass 2 PS: Reporter 11- 3 Rep: Superhero 14- Total Skills Cost: 19 Points Cost Powers 12 Damage Resistance 20 rPD 10 rED* 20 Flight 10", Variable Advantages (+1/2), [Megascale, Underwater, or 1/2 END Only (-1/4)] 7 ES: RPT, IAF: Concealed Radio (-1/2) 9 LS: Extended Breathing [1 END/Minute]*, High Pressure*, High Radiation*, Intense Cold*, Intense Heat*, Low Pressure/Vacuum* 3 PRE +5, OIF: Costume (-1/2) 62 VPP 40 Points, No Skill Roll (+1), Half Phase (+1/2), Multiform Only (-1), Does Not Work During Red Solar Radiation Exposure (-1/4) Total Powers Cost: 113 Points *Does Not Work During Red Solar Radiation Exposure (-1/4) Total Cost: 250 Points 150+ Disadvantages 10 DNPC: Jimmy Olsen (Unaware Slightly Less Powerful) 8- 5 DNPC: Lois Lane (Slightly Less Powerful) 8- 10 Hunted: Lex Luthor (As Powerful) 8- 20 PsyL: Code of the Hero (Very Common/Strong) 20 PsyL: Code Versus Killing (Common/Total) 10 SocL: Secret Identity [Kal-El/Clark Kent] (Occasionally/Major) 15 Suscept: Green Kryptonite Radiation, 3d6 STUN/Minute (Uncommon) 10 Vuln: Magic, 1 1/2x STUN (Common) Total Disadvantages Cost: 250 Points This is the Silver Age Superman. He is capable of using Yellow Sun Energy to alter his form to gain the powers and skills necessary for what needs to be done. My most recent Superman above his is true form. For the purposes of the 60 Max Active Points I consider the VPP Pool and the Control Costs as separate items. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blau Stern Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design. I don't see him moving small boats, much less planets. My Jimmy Olsen, Silver Age. 13 STR 3 14 DEX 12 13 CON 6 10 BODY 0 13 INT 3 14 EGO 8 10 PRE 0 12 COM 1 3 PD 0 3 ED 0 2 SPD 0 6 REC 0 26 END 0 24 STUN 0 Total Characteristics Cost:33 Cost Skills 2 AK: Metropolis 11- 2 PS: Reporter 11- 2 Power Skill 11- 2 Superhero world 11- 8 +1 overall CLS 3 Disguise 13- Total skill cost:18 Cost Powers 126 Summon Superman (3000 point creature) OIF Fragile, Extra Time (Extra Phase), Incantations, Charges (1 charge) Random one-off transformations 90 60 point VPP Character has no control over when or how powers change, IIF 150+ Disadvantages 5 DNPC: Perry White 5 DNPC: Lois Lane (Slightly Less Powerful) 8- 15 Hunted: Lex Luthor (More Powerful) 8- 10 Hunted: Perry White (watching, as Powerful) 8- 20 PsyL: Code of the Hero (Very Common/Strong) 25 Cosmic chew toy (5d6 Unluck) 10 Reputation: Superman's Pal 11- 10 Distinctive Features: The Olsen chin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megaplayboy Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design. Well, if you tweaked that Multiform pool pretty heavily,(e.g., a writeup with +400 STR, only for lifting(-2 to -4, depending)), he could probably do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design. Superman doesn't need to move planets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megaplayboy Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design. Superman doesn't need to move planets. Well, we're talking Silver Age Supes here. Very few comic book characters ever consistently portrayed as being as powerful. Moving planets, shrugging off nukes, flying FTL, assembling robot duplicates at super-speed, etc. As over the top as it can get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blau Stern Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design. Superman doesn't need to move planets.Batman doesn't NEED plans to defeat all of his friends (but no plans to defeat all of his enemies, go figure), but he has them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design. Batman has plans for defeating his enemies. None of his enemies have the power level of the League members. 95% of Batman's rogues gallery are normals with various psychoses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blau Stern Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design. Batman has plans for defeating his enemies. None of his enemies have the power level of the League members. 95% of Batman's rogues gallery are normals with various psychoses.If Batman really had plans for defeating his enemies, then his enemies would never make it out of Arkham Asylum, but they do, every time. That or his plans are really, really, really bad, because it seems he always has to improvise. Most of Batman's villains are incredibly easy to predict. Where are you going to find Mr. Freeze? Someplace cold. Where are you going to find Joker? Someplace you might find clowns. Where are you going to find Penguin? Someplace expensive. There comes a point where you have to realize Batman isn't very good at what he does, but he still has plans to defeat all of his friends. The last competent Batman was Adam West. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design. If you have a problem with the escapism of the genre why do you even bother to try? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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