Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design.

[Cassandra]

Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design.

 

I think one of the great things about the Champions system is it allows the recreation of superheroes from comic books in a "realistic" manner.

 

For example here is my ultimate version of the Man of Steel. It is built for a 250 Points 60 Max Active point 5th Edition Campaign.

 

 

Superman

 

Val Char Cost

40*/15 STR 25

14 DEX 12

25*/13 CON 25

12*/10 BODY 3

13 INT 3

10 EGO 0

15 PRE 5

14 COM 2

22*/8 PD 12

12*/6 ED 6

5*/3 SPD 22 [super-Speed]

15*/6 REC 3

50*/26 END 0

45*/25 STUN 0

Total Characteristics Cost: 118 Points

 

Cost Skills

2 AK: Metropolis 11-

6 Combat Luck +3 rPD +3 rED

5 CSL: HTH Combat +1

1 FB: Press Pass

2 PS: Reporter 11-

3 Rep: Superhero 14- ["The Man of Steel"]

Total Skills Cost: 19 Points

 

Cost Powers

12 Damage Resistance 20 rPD 10 rED*

24 Multipower (30 Points)*

2 u) EB 6d6* [Heat Vision]

2 u) Entangle 3d6 DEF 3* [Freezing Breath]

2 u) Missile Deflection [All Ranged Attacks] +5*

2 u) STR +20, No END (+1/2)*

2 u) Telekinesis 20 STR* [super-Breath]

2 u) Tunneling 6" DEF 6

20 ES: Microscopic Sight 10x*, N-Ray Sight [Lead]*, PER +1*, Telescopic Hearing +2*, Telescopic Sight +2*,

Ultrasonic Hearing*

7 ES: RPT, IAF: Concealed Radio (-1/2) [JLA Communicator]

20 Flight 10", Variable Advantages (+1/2), [Megascale, Underwater, or 1/2 END Only (-1/4)]*

6 Healing: Regeneration 1 BODY/Turn*

9 LS: Extended Breathing [1 END/Minute]*, High Pressure*, High Radiation*, Intense Cold*, Intense Heat*,

Low Pressure/Vacuum*

3 PRE +5, OIF: Costume (-1/2) [World Famous Costume]

Total Powers Cost: 113 Points

 

*Does Not Work During Red Solar Radiation Exposure (-1/4)

 

Total Cost: 250 Points

 

150+ Disadvantages

10 DNPC: Jimmy Olsen (Unaware Slightly Less Powerful) 8-

5 DNPC: Lois Lane (Slightly Less Powerful) 8-

10 Hunted: Lex Luthor (As Powerful) 8-

20 PsyL: Code of the Hero (Very Common/Strong) [Wages a Never Ending Battle for Truth, Justice, and the American Way]

20 PsyL: Code Versus Killing (Common/Total)

10 SocL: Secret Identity [Kal-El/Clark Kent] (Occasionally/Major)

15 Suscept: Green Kryptonite Radiation, 3d6 STUN/Minute (Uncommon)

10 Vuln: Magic, 1 1/2x STUN (Common)

Total Disadvantages Cost: 250 Points

 

 

Now, we can see that Superman has a variety of useful powers, both offensive and defensive. He has an excellent range of senses, and can survive in many hostile environments. His main attack is his strength, allowing him to press 100 tons.

 

However, he does have a limitation. When exposed to Red Solar Radiation he loses his powers, and becomes only an above average human being.

 

This is what is known as play balance. The super strong hero of your group will occasionally run into something he can't handle. The Crime Fighter or Powered Armor hero will eventually have to fight without his weapons.

 

And how will they survive? How do they in the comics?

 

Heroes have friends and allies.

[megaplayboy]

Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design.

 

Well, it doesn't matter much where characters start out point-wise. They accumulate more points over time, and eventually they have so many points you either have to adjust the setting to accomodate the new reality, or else reboot the campaign every time they get "too powerful".

[Blau Stern]

Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design.

 

I feel like I've been here before. Have we been here before?

 

Most heroes can survive on their own merits, it's why they have these things called "solo titles", unfortunately I'm not seeing any heroes here.

[megaplayboy]

Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design.

 

I'd note also that even 4th edition Hero allowed for a high-powered superhero campaign level(150 base plus 225 in disads or somesuch), and even noted you could go as high as 500 (or more) if you wanted to simulate particularly powerful heroes.

[Brother Jim]

Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design.

 

Oh good god......Can someone tell me how to put someone on Ignore....it looks like it's going to start again.

[Blau Stern]

Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design.

 

Imagine how I feel.

[megaplayboy]

Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design.

 

Oh good god......Can someone tell me how to put someone on Ignore....it looks like it's going to start again.

 

Well, sometimes people don't recognize when they're being abrasive and/or disrespectful. Social awareness is an acquired skill and doesn't come naturally to everyone.

[phoenix240]

Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design.

 

I think one of the great things about the Champions system is it allows the recreation of superheroes from comic books in a "realistic" manner.

 

For example here is my ultimate version of the Man of Steel. It is built for a 250 Points 60 Max Active point 5th Edition Campaign.

 

 

Superman

 

Val Char Cost

40*/15 STR 25

14 DEX 12

25*/13 CON 25

12*/10 BODY 3

13 INT 3

10 EGO 0

15 PRE 5

14 COM 2

22*/8 PD 12

12*/6 ED 6

5*/3 SPD 22 [super-Speed]

15*/6 REC 3

50*/26 END 0

45*/25 STUN 0

Total Characteristics Cost: 118 Points

 

Cost Skills

2 AK: Metropolis 11-

6 Combat Luck +3 rPD +3 rED

5 CSL: HTH Combat +1

1 FB: Press Pass

2 PS: Reporter 11-

3 Rep: Superhero 14- ["The Man of Steel"]

Total Skills Cost: 19 Points

 

Cost Powers

12 Damage Resistance 20 rPD 10 rED*

24 Multipower (30 Points)*

2 u) EB 6d6* [Heat Vision]

2 u) Entangle 3d6 DEF 3* [Freezing Breath]

2 u) Missile Deflection [All Ranged Attacks] +5*

2 u) STR +20, No END (+1/2)*

2 u) Telekinesis 20 STR* [super-Breath]

2 u) Tunneling 6" DEF 6

20 ES: Microscopic Sight 10x*, N-Ray Sight [Lead]*, PER +1*, Telescopic Hearing +2*, Telescopic Sight +2*,

Ultrasonic Hearing*

7 ES: RPT, IAF: Concealed Radio (-1/2) [JLA Communicator]

20 Flight 10", Variable Advantages (+1/2), [Megascale, Underwater, or 1/2 END Only (-1/4)]*

6 Healing: Regeneration 1 BODY/Turn*

9 LS: Extended Breathing [1 END/Minute]*, High Pressure*, High Radiation*, Intense Cold*, Intense Heat*,

Low Pressure/Vacuum*

3 PRE +5, OIF: Costume (-1/2) [World Famous Costume]

Total Powers Cost: 113 Points

 

*Does Not Work During Red Solar Radiation Exposure (-1/4)

 

Total Cost: 250 Points

 

150+ Disadvantages

10 DNPC: Jimmy Olsen (Unaware Slightly Less Powerful) 8-

5 DNPC: Lois Lane (Slightly Less Powerful) 8-

10 Hunted: Lex Luthor (As Powerful) 8-

20 PsyL: Code of the Hero (Very Common/Strong) [Wages a Never Ending Battle for Truth, Justice, and the American Way]

20 PsyL: Code Versus Killing (Common/Total)

10 SocL: Secret Identity [Kal-El/Clark Kent] (Occasionally/Major)

15 Suscept: Green Kryptonite Radiation, 3d6 STUN/Minute (Uncommon)

10 Vuln: Magic, 1 1/2x STUN (Common)

Total Disadvantages Cost: 250 Points

 

 

Now, we can see that Superman has a variety of useful powers, both offensive and defensive. He has an excellent range of senses, and can survive in many hostile environments. His main attack is his strength, allowing him to press 100 tons.

 

However, he does have a limitation. When exposed to Red Solar Radiation he loses his powers, and becomes only an above average human being.

 

This is what is known as play balance. The super strong hero of your group will occasionally run into something he can't handle. The Crime Fighter or Powered Armor hero will eventually have to fight without his weapons.

 

And how will they survive? How do they in the comics?

 

Heroes have friends and allies.

 

Not too bad. If I were going to adapt the character to my Wyldstrike setting (similar benchmarks) I'd probably bump his strength closer to the damage max (50ish). The would give him more of the "feel" IMO but leave room for a Hulk analog.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design.

 

Oh good god......Can someone tell me how to put someone on Ignore....it looks like it's going to start again.

 

Click on their name, go to their profile page. On the upper left, there'll be an option for putting them on your Ignore List.

[Blau Stern]

Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design.

 

Click on their name' date=' go to their profile page. On the upper left, there'll be an option for putting them on your Ignore List.[/quote']Oh, neat. Thanks.

[massey]

Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design.

 

Actually Gladiator is based off Superboy. The Elite Guard that the X-Men faced was based off the Legion.

 

And for being Cosmic, Spider-Man laid out Firelord.

 

I read that story. Spidey was able to put Stun on Firelord. Firelord refrained from evaporating the city (he wanted to get pizza, and the best place for pizza in the galaxy is New York City of course).

 

So I would build Spidey so that he can put Stun on Firelord. Might give Spidey Find Weakness and Firelord no Lack of Weakness. Maybe Firelord has 30 PD and a lot more ED. Plus Spidey rolled well. "80 Stun on 14 dice! Awesome!" And Firelord ran through his END trying to hit Spidey and started burning Stun to shoot at him because he's a jackass and wouldn't wait 2 seconds to take a recovery.

[esampson]

Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design.

 

I always thought it was more caused by the fact that the writer wanted Spiderman to beat-up Firelord, despite the difference in their power levels (which isn't to say Spiderman's a wimp or anything. Just that he's not on the same level as Marvel's heaviest hitters).

[massey]

Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design.

 

It's kind of an unfair scenario to ask someone to write up. Everyone basically agrees it shouldn't normally happen. So the first thing someone says when discussing character writeups is "can your Spider-Man beat up Firelord?" If he can, everyone says how stupid that moment was. If he can't, people say "it happened in the comics!"

[Greywind]

Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design.

 

Spider-Man stopped the Juggernaut. Very few can claim that.

[megaplayboy]

Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design.

 

Spidey has two Class 80 bricks(Sandman and Rhino) in his rogues' gallery, and he would routinely beat them up. He's soloed the Sinister Six on occasion.

[Greywind]

Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design.

 

What's a "Class 80"?

[massey]

Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design.

 

80 Marvel tons. I'd convert them at about an 80 Champions Str.

[Greywind]

Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design.

 

I wouldn't.

[massey]

Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design.

 

Of course you wouldn't.

[esampson]

Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design.

 

Spidey has two Class 80 bricks(Sandman and Rhino) in his rogues' gallery' date=' and he would routinely beat them up. He's soloed the Sinister Six on occasion.[/quote']

 

And yet he lost a fight to a bad Michael Jackson impersonator.

 

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[Blau Stern]

Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design.

 

And yet he lost a fight to a bad Michael Jackson impersonator.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]44432[/ATTACH]

I've seen Spider-Man get his arm broken by Jigsaw, the Punisher villain with no super powers, just an ugly mug. Sometimes comics are really inconsistent. You really don't want to use weird extremes like this when building a character, unless they happen repeatedly.

 

That said, Marvel Tons don't make a heck of a lot of sense, but they almost invariably mean "a heck of a lot more than what they say they are" the lightest rail car in existence is like 17 tons, ergo Spider-Man cannot wield it like a baseball bat.

[SSgt Baloo]

Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design.

 

Settings must be relative. In a world where Superman existed for real, he would be the bench-line measurement against which pretenders are evaluated. If kids in that universe were watching a Superman cartoon wherein Superman pushes a planet out of the way of some hazard, they'd scoff at it. "That's hokey! [or words to that effect ] Everyone knows superman can barely lift a Sherman Tank. My dad saw him lift one at a USO show in the war. He told me so its true."

 

Pretty-much that is what folks have been saying that I can determine, and that's why you get Superman (more like "Superman") in campaigns with less-than cosmically-powered heroes. I'd compare it to drawing a picture of Superman and saying "This is Superman". You immediately understand that I am talking about the drawing, not the "real" person. Likewise, when someone creates a character and says "Here's superman built with [number of points chosen for any one of a dozen reasons] she or he is saying "Do you see the likeness?" not "This is the definitive version of Superman and all others are falsehoods."

 

I'm not sure but is is that the gist of your objection?

[esampson]

Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design.

 

I've seen Spider-Man get his arm broken by Jigsaw' date=' the Punisher villain with no super powers, just an ugly mug. Sometimes comics are really inconsistent. You really don't want to use weird extremes like this when building a character, unless they happen repeatedly.[/quote']

Yep. That's absolutely true. I kind of lump his beating up Firelord in there as a weird extreme on the other end.

 

Like I said, Spiderman's no slouch, but the overall portrayal of Firelord is someone well above Spiderman's weight level.

[Blau Stern]

Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design.

 

The gist of my objection is simply: these write-ups do not match what I know he's capable of, they might be the same power set, but they are not even close to the right scale.

 

Oddly enough, I think the fight between Spider-Man and Firelord was appropriate, in that it -could- happen. Should it? Heavens no, Firelord isn't that dumb.... or at least I don't think he is, but if he were dumb enough to hang around, and let himself get beat on by a guy in Spider-Man's weight class, he's gonna run out of steam eventually.

[Greywind]

Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design.

 

I've seen Spider-Man get his arm broken by Jigsaw, the Punisher villain with no super powers, just an ugly mug. Sometimes comics are really inconsistent. You really don't want to use weird extremes like this when building a character, unless they happen repeatedly.

 

That said, Marvel Tons don't make a heck of a lot of sense, but they almost invariably mean "a heck of a lot more than what they say they are" the lightest rail car in existence is like 17 tons, ergo Spider-Man cannot wield it like a baseball bat.

 

And here's the gist of it: character write-ups are just like opinions. They are not "wrong". They are just one person's opinion about a character.

 

If the writer and/or artist wants Spidey to wield a rail car like a baseball bat, guess what, he'll do it.