World War Two Campaign

[Black Ops]

Re: World War Two Campaign

 

No' date=' I meant who was Henry Knight's Vice President?[/quote']

No Idea if he was ever named.

[casualplayer]

Re: World War Two Campaign

 

No' date=' I meant who was Henry Knight's Vice President?[/quote']

 

Idk, maybe William Squire?

[assault]

Re: World War Two Campaign

 

Scenario: Atlantis Joins the Axis!

 

Atlantean fascists launch attacks on Allied ports, bases and shipping.

 

Possible targets and/or locations:

New York

A US Naval base (probably Norfolk, but perhaps with a name change)

Halifax

London (or Bristol, but Golden Age geography suggests Britain mostly equals London)

The Panama Canal

Pearl Harbor

Bermuda or the Bahamas

Somewhere on the West Coast

Somewhere in the Gulf of Mexico

Atlantis (going to the source of the problem)

Any fictional location you care to add (secret cave base, or whatever)

A ship or convoy at sea

 

The scenario could be run as a set of solo adventures running in parallel, or as a group adventure. The latter might only involve a couple of the locations, probably including Atlantis. The strength of the attackers would depend on the power level of the heroes present.

 

Suggested timeframe: late 1941. September-November would be ideal, being "just before Pearl Harbor".

 

Cost of failure: crippling blows against Allied naval capability. Atlantis becomes consolidated as an Axis power.

Benefits of success: Atlantis remains neutral, or possibly even joins the Allies.

[Shadow Hawk]

Re: World War Two Campaign

 

If you are going to attack a Royal Navy base, Scapa Flow is THE base.

 

Attacks on Gibralter or Malta would also work.

 

U.S. bases on the west coast were San Diego, Long Beach, and San Fransisco (Seattle?).

 

Consequences: if against a U.S. base, the USN goes on a war footing. Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor might not work as well if the base is on alert against possible Atlantean attack.

[assault]

Re: World War Two Campaign

 

Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor might not work as well if the base is on alert against possible Atlantean attack.

 

My idea, and the reason for the timing, was that its failure, and the decisive defeat of the Atlantean fascists in general, would lead to complacency.

 

"See! Nobody can attack Pearl Harbor and get away with it!"

Cue the noise of the engines of Japanese aircraft.

 

Incidentally, there were warnings of an imminent Japanese attack before it happened. They were largely ignored, and nobody expected Pearl Harbor to be the site of an attack anyway. Trivia: the December 8 landings in Malaya actually began before the December 7 attacks on Pearl, courtesy of the International Date Line.

 

The Atlantic coast was already pretty much militarised because of the presence of U-boats.

[Captain Obvious]

Re: World War Two Campaign

 

Pearl Harbor was considered to be pretty well situated for defense. It's fairly closed off from the Pacific and it's shallow, so subs aren't a big problem, and torpedoes can't be dropped from a very high altitude or else they'll hit bottom and either blow up or get stuck. Which is exactly why the Japanese torpedo bombers came in at a low altitude.

[Shadow Hawk]

Re: World War Two Campaign

 

Yes, there were warnings of a Japanese attack in the Pacific, which is why the "War Warning" message was sent out to all commands in the Pacific.

 

My logic as to improved Pearl Harbor defenses is simple: one attack will lead to more. The attack would have to be a total joke to lead to complacency ("Did you hear that the Atlanteans tried to sink a battleship by poking it with tridents?" "Yeah, and then they stood thier looking confused until the Swabbies grabbed rifles and shot them all! Ha ha ha!") Add a Atlantean attack to the War Warning message, and maybe LGen Short would do something useful... or not, since his response to the War Warning was to disarm his airforce and park it in rows to avoid sabotage.

 

The U.S. Atlantic coast wasn't militarized until wellafter Germany's declaration of war on the U.S., which is why the first U-Boat attacks on the U.S. (Operation Drumbeat) were so successful.

[assault]

Re: World War Two Campaign

 

The attack would have to be a total joke to lead to complacency ("Did you hear that the Atlanteans tried to sink a battleship by poking it with tridents?" "Yeah' date=' and then they stood thier looking confused until the Swabbies grabbed rifles and shot them all! Ha ha ha!") Add a Atlantean attack to the War Warning message, and maybe LGen Short would do something useful... or not, since his response to the War Warning was to disarm his airforce and park it in rows to avoid sabotage.[/quote']

 

Given that the attack was quite likely defeated by a single boxer in a mask, "a total joke" could well be applicable. Or, of course, if the multiple hero option is used, Pearl Harbor could be one of the attack sites dropped, along with West Coast sites and Britain. In other words, if you don't find it plausible, it could be dropped.

 

Besides, Golden Age comic logic is a bit "different" from ours.

 

The U.S. Atlantic coast wasn't militarized until wellafter Germany's declaration of war on the U.S., which is why the first U-Boat attacks on the U.S. (Operation Drumbeat) were so successful.

 

True. I was thinking about US involvement in the Pan-American Security Zone, which, incidentally, provides an excuse for US heroes to chase U-boats before the formal declaration of war.

 

One of the reasons for having pro-Axis Atlanteans is to give them something to do during this period of the war. Another option is pirate submarines! Arrr! Or midget submarines, crewed by real midgets.

[Shadow Hawk]

Re: World War Two Campaign

 

Well, of course the comic logic is different...

 

How's this for a concept: the Japanese co-ordinate with the Atlanteans to attack the Hawaiian Islands. However, due to American codebreaking, the Atlantean attack is discovered, and the heroes (PCs) rushed to the scene, soundly defeating the Atlanteans, only to discover that while they were dealing with the Atlantean threat, Japanese Naval Air Forces have smashed the naval base!

Make the Atlantean attack at Honolulu or Wiakiki; close enough to see the fires at Pearl Harbor, far enough away so that the two battles are seperate. If they can defeat the Atlanteans quickly enough, they can turn and assist the base; if they can't...

[Major Tom 2009]

Re: World War Two Campaign

 

Given that the attack was quite likely defeated by a single boxer in a mask, "a total joke" could well be applicable. Or, of course, if the multiple hero option is used, Pearl Harbor could be one of the attack sites dropped, along with West Coast sites and Britain. In other words, if you don't find it plausible, it could be dropped.

 

Besides, Golden Age comic logic is a bit "different" from ours.

 

 

 

True. I was thinking about US involvement in the Pan-American Security Zone, which, incidentally, provides an excuse for US heroes to chase U-boats before the formal declaration of war.

 

One of the reasons for having pro-Axis Atlanteans is to give them something to do during this period of the war. Another option is pirate submarines! Arrr! Or midget submarines, crewed by real midgets.

 

 

 

There were mini-subs used by the Japanese during the Pearl Harbor operation (2- or 3-man craft, IIRC),

whose mission was to attempt to penetrate the antisubmarine defenses of the base and do their best to

damage as much of the Navy ships there as possible. Aside from the one that was detected and sunk by

the U.S.S Ward, there were at least two of the mini-subs that managed to enter the harbor.

 

As for Lt. General Short, I can't help but wonder if he didn't get saddled with a nickname like "Short On

Brains" following his less-than-stellar decision to group the planes together on the airfields. I've also

never heard if, like Kimmel, he was relieved from his post following Pearl Harbor.

 

 

 

Major Tom 2009

Minus 90 and counting...

[Shadow Hawk]

Re: World War Two Campaign

 

There were mini-subs used by the Japanese during the Pearl Harbor operation (2- or 3-man craft, IIRC),

whose mission was to attempt to penetrate the antisubmarine defenses of the base and do their best to

damage as much of the Navy ships there as possible. Aside from the one that was detected and sunk by

the U.S.S Ward, there were at least two of the mini-subs that managed to enter the harbor.

 

As for Lt. General Short, I can't help but wonder if he didn't get saddled with a nickname like "Short On

Brains" following his less-than-stellar decision to group the planes together on the airfields. I've also

never heard if, like Kimmel, he was relieved from his post following Pearl Harbor.

 

 

 

Major Tom 2009

Minus 90 and counting...

 

Both were relieved, both were court-martialed for dereliction of duty, both were encouraged to retire or face serious charges.

 

The court martials were excellent examples of Let's Blame The Other Guy (Kimmel blamed Short, Short blamed the War Department). LGen Short was blamed for not conducting proper recon, Adm Kimmel was blamed for not making sure that LGen Short was doing proper recon.

[Captain Obvious]

Re: World War Two Campaign

 

If the Atlanteans carried out a prior sabotage type attack, and were defeated by the heroes, then that would give good reason for both parking all the planes to keep them under watch and for discounting any possible followup attack.

[Clonus]

Re: World War Two Campaign

 

If you are going to attack a Royal Navy base, Scapa Flow is THE base.

 

Attacks on Gibralter or Malta would also work.

 

U.S. bases on the west coast were San Diego, Long Beach, and San Fransisco (Seattle?).

 

Consequences: if against a U.S. base, the USN goes on a war footing. Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor might not work as well if the base is on alert against possible Atlantean attack.

 

Pearl Harbor is a long, long way away from the mid-atlantic (where Atlantis usually located). It would probably be part of a completely different undersea nation's territory and if all the Atlantean attacks occurred in the Atlantic, it probably wouldn't make that much difference to their level of alertness at Pearl. Perhaps more significantly the kind of measures they'd take against the Atlanteans, wouldn't be all that useful against aerial attack. The Atlanteans would attack with with commando groups and kaiju, not flying machines.

[SSgt Baloo]

Re: World War Two Campaign

 

In my campaign worlds, I'd use the (sunken) ->Lost continent of Mu<-, which in my game world is enemies with Atlantis. Perhaps they have a nonaggression treaty with Atlantis for the duration (assuming, perhaps for different reasons, each is aligned with the Axis to advance its own agenda)?

[kahuna's bro]

Re: World War Two Campaign

 

a wwII era super should be lower powered than todays supers

the reason i wrote that if the heroes are too superyou could divate too much from history

i'd suggest teen champion level powers with one or two powers per super like tv's alphas

[SSgt Baloo]

Re: World War Two Campaign

 

the reason i wrote that if the heroes are too superyou could divate too much from history

i'd suggest teen champion level powers with one or two powers per super like tv's alphas

 

...But what if you want your campaign to deviate from history? And who says WWII has to be played out according to historical records when in the campaign, they are rewriting them by their very existence?

[Zen Archer]

Re: World War Two Campaign

 

How's this for a concept: the Japanese co-ordinate with the Atlanteans to attack the Hawaiian Islands. However, due to American codebreaking, the Atlantean attack is discovered, and the heroes (PCs) rushed to the scene, soundly defeating the Atlanteans, only to discover that while they were dealing with the Atlantean threat, Japanese Naval Air Forces have smashed the naval base!

 

In this vein, If you haven't already, take a look at Marvel's The Marvels Project mini of a few years back.

[assault]

Re: World War Two Campaign

 

Pearl Harbor is a long' date=' long way away from the mid-atlantic (where Atlantis usually located). It would probably be part of a completely different undersea nation's territory and if all the Atlantean attacks occurred in the Atlantic, it probably wouldn't make that much difference to their level of alertness at Pearl. Perhaps more significantly the kind of measures they'd take against the Atlanteans, wouldn't be all that useful against aerial attack. The Atlanteans would attack with with commando groups and kaiju, not flying machines.[/quote']

 

I'm beginning to think that the attack on Pearl causes too many suspension of disbelief issues. It isn't necessary to the scenario anyway, since there are lots of alternative targets.

 

A previous Atlantean sabotage raid could help explain why the aircraft were set up the way they were during the Japanese attack, as Captain Obvious pointed out.

 

Incidentally, the attackers don't have to be Atlanteans. Other Generic Sea Dwellers are equally OK. Or, for that matter Submarine Pirates, working for Blackbeard's Ghost. Or anything else that pops out of your mind.

 

The structure is still: defeat the attack, track back to the villain's base and overcome any setbacks along the way. The characters' initial presence could be accidental, or there could have been a previous warning.

[assault]

Re: World War Two Campaign

 

the reason i wrote that if the heroes are too superyou could divate too much from history

i'd suggest teen champion level powers with one or two powers per super like tv's alphas

 

I vehemently disagree. The whole point of the exercise is to create a game that feels like Golden Age comics, or at least the 70s/80s versions of them.

 

That means: Flash, Green Lantern, Wonder Woman, the Atom, Hawkman, Captain America, Namor, the Human Torch, Captain Marvel...

 

Reasonable versions of characters like these can be built on fairly restricted points eg 250/300, so the power levels can be fairly moderate, but they'd be full blown superbeings.

 

Deviation from history is pretty much inevitable. The first and most obvious point is that if the heroes fail, the Axis will win. This would be less true in a homefront/crimefighting game, where the war is mainly background noise, but even there what the PCs do actually matters.

 

In a sense, the point of the game is to change history so that it ends up the way it did in our timeline, which it otherwise wouldn't.

[assault]

Re: World War Two Campaign

 

A bit of a placeholder for more scenarios:

 

"Mr Black" - against the black market.

"Buy Bonds!" - the PCs attend bond rallies, either as spectators, news crews or performers, and stop various nefarious deeds.

"Buy Bonds! II" - similar, only they do a national tour as a group.

[massey]

Re: World War Two Campaign

 

The reason there weren't a lot of Axis supers during the real Golden Age is because people didn't want to read about super fights. They wanted to see Captain America punch Hitler in the jaw. Baron Von Badguy is the closest you'd get to a Nazi supervillain. They didn't want to see German supers. So most supers tended to be American.

 

Now the problem that you have is that we've had nearly 70 years to sit and think up ways that Superman could have ended WWII. Any reasonably intelligent player with access to a history book and a little imagination could probably walk Superman right into the heart of Nazi Germany and kill Der Fuhrer without even being so much as spotted by a single soldier. So you've got to think of ways to avoid that. Generally that means either making the Axis powers much more effective or making the supers much less effective.

 

Here's how I would do it.

 

1) The Axis powers have a military advantage. In real life, once the US got on a war footing and got its industry involved, it was only a matter of time. The Axis simply didn't have the production capacity to match up. In the game, that's not the case. The Allies will probably lose unless the supers can get in there and smash some military equipment.

 

2) The Axis powers have supers. While they'll probably have fewer supers than the Allies, it's enough to keep Superman from just hanging out in Berlin and smashing stuff.

 

3) Nazi science/magic. Yes, they'll try to get stuff like the Ark of the Covenant. Yes, they'll resurrect Frankenstein's Monster. Scientists with death rays and mind control helmets and things like that will challenge the heroes. None of this stuff is reproducible on a large scale, but it's enough to keep the heroes busy.

 

4) Nazi plot device. See Spear of Destiny. The Nazis have something that prevents instant takeover by the heroes. Maybe Hitler has a big ass chunk of Kryptonite he carries with him. Maybe he's got powers of his own. Whatever it is, it prevents the big-name heroes from just ending the war in an afternoon. It may even make a direct assault into Germany "too risky" for Allied command to allow.

 

5) Heroes don't know their own strength. They aren't necessarily going to use their powers in the way that could best help the war effort. Remember, this campaign is beginning in the late 30s. No one has seen Dragonball Z. Supers have appeared very very recently. Even they are adjusting to their own powers. How fast can Superman fly? How high can he go? He really isn't sure. He hasn't ever really found a limit. Regardless, the idea of flying into space and dropping asteroids on Berlin just wouldn't occur to him. Characters are very straightforward with their powers. The Flash isn't going to kick up sandstorms in the Sahara to limit Rommel's visibility. Weather Manipulator isn't going to rain out all the roads and bridges in Germany. Basically this is your excuse to prevent noncombat applications of powers that can't be countered.

 

6) The military doesn't integrate with heroes. Air Wave doesn't act as a communications hub for the Army. Flash doesn't relay positions of enemy troops across all of Europe. Even if characters suggest things like this, the Army simply won't make use of it. The leadership doesn't trust the heroes. See the above point: no one has developed any superhuman warfare tactics yet. General Stick-in-the-mud just won't listen to your great idea to have Superman ferry munitions across the Atlantic. The most they'll do is send a few trusted heroes to go punch Nazis in the face. No one is going to think beyond "punch Nazis in the face".

 

7) The heroes don't have perfect knowledge. One thing that prevents them from launching a decapitation strike is that they don't know where Hitler is. Even if the player knows that XYZ battle took place on this specific date, the character doesn't. The fog of war affects heroes too. I'm sure Superman could have made a huge difference at the Battle of Midway, but that's only if someone finds him and tells him to be there. I see Pearl Harbor happening pretty much as it did in real life, because there simply won't be any heroes in Hawaii when it happens. They'll find out after its over.

 

M.A.S.H. lasted longer than the actual Korean War. While it was clearly Vietnam-in-disguise, you can learn a lot from the way that show was handled. Specific dates, battles and such weren't important. What is important is to get the feel right. While you should probably know when certain key events happened, it's not important that your game follow those dates. It's easy enough to say "Spring 1942" and have Captain Flagsuit fighting with the resistance in France.

[Clonus]

Re: World War Two Campaign

 

I'm beginning to think that the attack on Pearl causes too many suspension of disbelief issues. It isn't necessary to the scenario anyway, since there are lots of alternative targets.

 

A previous Atlantean sabotage raid could help explain why the aircraft were set up the way they were during the Japanese attack, as Captain Obvious pointed out.

 

Incidentally, the attackers don't have to be Atlanteans. Other Generic Sea Dwellers are equally OK. Or, for that matter Submarine Pirates, working for Blackbeard's Ghost. Or anything else that pops out of your mind.

.

 

GURPS Weird War II had the samebito, reptiloid undersea dwellers who served a "Dragon King" as possible Japanese allies.

[assault]

Re: World War Two Campaign

 

Maybe the Nazi supervillains got their powers from the time travellers that attempted to assassinate Hitler in 1933...

[Cassandra]

Re: World War Two Campaign

 

Justice League The Animated Series had an episode were Vandal Savage took over Nazi Germany after having information sent to him by his future self. The Justice League went back in time to stop him. Perhaps that scenario could be used to explain how Superman started in 1938, and so forth.

[Orion]

Re: World War Two Campaign

 

1) The Axis powers have a military advantage. In real life, once the US got on a war footing and got its industry involved, it was only a matter of time. The Axis simply didn't have the production capacity to match up. In the game, that's not the case. The Allies will probably lose unless the supers can get in there and smash some military equipment.

 

Or just play the Axis leadership as being reasonably intelligent. The German could have been much tougher if they had a better understanding of just how many planes and pilots they'd need. Same thing for the Japanese. If the Japanese had trained them like we did, rather than considering aviators as a small, but elite force, it would have taken us much longer to finally defeat them. What if Germany had not invaded Russia? Just think how much harder that would have made the war.