Christopher Posted July 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2012 Re: Tolkien Elves in Hero No immunity to poison' date=' since in the [i']Silmarillion[/i], Aredhel sickened and died from a poisoned dart thrown by her husband, Eol. Otherwise, as Christopher said. I believe there were also diseases in the Silmarillion that were so virulent that even Elves fell ill and perished of them. But such plagues were specially created by Morgoth for the purpose. But they were certainly if not immune then highly resistant to all "ordinary" disease and poison. The problem is granularity. So I go the Superman/Martian Manhunter route* and jsut give them the LS. Whatever can affect them is propably linked with a Drain (LS: Immunity to Diseases/Poisions), using a totally different NND or is not a NND at all. Robots would have to take Inherent on thier LS-accordingly (so it can't be drained). *at least in the Justice League Animated Series Double-episode there was a biological attack that affected both of them, as it affected all men on the planet. Responding to my comment about communion with their environment - fauna, flora, and even the land itself: One way to do it may be as a Contact. Responding to my observation that Elves live simultaneously in both worlds: The point I was trying to make is that a major defining aspect of Tollkein's Elves is that they have a broader and deeper - at any rate, a very different - awareness of the world than a mortal. This is all nice fluff material. Certainly something to keep in mind for exposition needs. But I can't figure out any definite and usefull game effects from it, that would be worth any points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowsoul Posted July 29, 2012 Report Share Posted July 29, 2012 Re: Tolkien Elves in Hero Do the Elves of the War of the Ring period still have all the power that they did during the time of the Silmarillion? There were certainly some immensely powerful Elves in the First Age. Feanor, for one, was more powerful than normal Elves. But he died. And a lot of the other super-powered Elven heroes, including some Elves that were descended from Maiar, died fighting against Morgoth as well. And during the War of the Ring the Elves are fading from Middle Earth. Their time is past. Are those that remain as strong as they once were? Or have they only been reduced in numbers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkdguy Posted July 29, 2012 Report Share Posted July 29, 2012 Re: Tolkien Elves in Hero Very few of the Elves mentioned in the Silmarillion were still around during the War of the Ring. To my understanding, most of the Elves remaining in Middle-earth aren't as powerful as they were. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Marcus Posted July 29, 2012 Report Share Posted July 29, 2012 Re: Tolkien Elves in Hero There was Glorfindel, who died killing a Balrog in single combat during the Fall of Gondolin. He was reincarnated in Aman and traveled east across the Sundering Seas to help in the struggles against Sauron. Pretty badass, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkdguy Posted July 29, 2012 Report Share Posted July 29, 2012 Re: Tolkien Elves in Hero But Glorfindel was more like the exception rather than the rule. And he didn't play a big role in LOTR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Marcus Posted July 29, 2012 Report Share Posted July 29, 2012 Re: Tolkien Elves in Hero Not "on-screen", no. But I'm pretty sure he was a key player in the defense of Rivendell during the war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claire Redfield Posted July 29, 2012 Report Share Posted July 29, 2012 Re: Tolkien Elves in Hero Yes, most of the Elves left in Middle-Earth during the end of the Third Age are less powerful than the First Age Noldor. Most of the really super-badass Elves were Noldor, and they were not to be trifled with. Fingolfin's last ride is my favorite part of that book, and he went and gave Morgoth some serious trouble. Ecthelion killed multiple Balrogs before he and Gothmog, lord of the Balrogs, killed each other in personal combat, which is something that seems to happen a lot. Lúthien put Morgoth to sleep with a spell, and he was far and away the most powerful being in Middle-Earth. Glorfindel didn't do much, but when he revealed his wrath, even the Ringwraiths were taken aback. The most powerful of the Elves were pretty awesome, and greater than most other beings to walk Middle-Earth. Fingolfin would have thrown down Sauron in single combat, while Ecthelion of the Fountain would have laughed in the face of but a single diminished Balrog. There are other examples, but one of the biggest lessons to take away from The Silmarillion is "Don't f@#% with the First Age Elves." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkdguy Posted July 29, 2012 Report Share Posted July 29, 2012 Re: Tolkien Elves in Hero Galadriel also revealed her power when the Elves attacked Dol Guldur. She "threw down its walls and laid bare its pits." Of course, Galadriel was described as the greatest of the Noldor, save perhaps Feanor, though she was wiser than he. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted July 30, 2012 Report Share Posted July 30, 2012 Re: Tolkien Elves in Hero Nothing wrong with slashfic' date=' though if you want to just find some passages from the books, it's annoying to have to try to wade through it.[/quote'] Dean Winchester: [Reading on the computer] There's Sam Girls and Dean Girls and- What's a slash fan? Sam Winchester: As in Sam-slash-Dean. Together. Dean Winchester: Like "together" together? Sam Winchester: Yeah. Dean Winchester: [Horrified] They do know we're brothers, right? Sam Winchester: Doesn't seem to matter. Dean Winchester: Oh, come on, that... that's just sick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted July 30, 2012 Report Share Posted July 30, 2012 Re: Tolkien Elves in Hero Interesting essay on why the Elves left Middle Earth: http://middle-earth.xenite.org/2011/09/22/why-did-the-elves-leave-middle-earth/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jhaierr Posted July 31, 2012 Report Share Posted July 31, 2012 Re: Tolkien Elves in Hero I don't believe anyone has posted this (although I haven't read every single post in this thread yet), but the following two pages are one of the best descriptions of how things "work" in Middle-earth (from a general RPG perspective) that I have ever seen: http://www.flark.org/TolkienStuff/runningcampaigns.html http://www.flark.org/TolkienStuff/magicintolkien.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted July 31, 2012 Report Share Posted July 31, 2012 Re: Tolkien Elves in Hero About the only other thing I remember from LOTR you haven't mentioned is that the elves were able to walk on a single rope like a bridge' date=' and walk on top of snow instead of having to force their way through it.[/quote'] This could be covered with the Environmental Movement talent. There are some similar uses in official published products. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted July 31, 2012 Report Share Posted July 31, 2012 Re: Tolkien Elves in Hero I keep reading this as "Token Elvis in Hero" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Marcus Posted July 31, 2012 Report Share Posted July 31, 2012 Re: Tolkien Elves in Hero I don't think the Professor was a fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted July 31, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2012 Re: Tolkien Elves in Hero One question regarding elves "conenction with the land" and "seeing the spirit world at the same time": Could this be enough information to avoid being fooled by Shape Shift and Illusions? Havign soem detect on the Mental group? Detecting Mental Manipulation in action? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted July 31, 2012 Report Share Posted July 31, 2012 Re: Tolkien Elves in Hero Galadriel also revealed her power when the Elves attacked Dol Guldur. She "threw down its walls and laid bare its pits." Of course' date=' Galadriel was described as the greatest of the Noldor, save perhaps Feanor, though she was wiser than he.[/quote'] Wasn't the power of the Elves gradually waning over the Second and Third Ages? While undoubtedly still bada$$, Galadriel was probably a shadow of her First Age self. Knocking over Dol Guldur is no mean feat, but it's not as though Sauron was in it, and she had Thranduil and Celeborn backing her up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted July 31, 2012 Report Share Posted July 31, 2012 Re: Tolkien Elves in Hero Nothing wrong with slashfic' date=' though if you want to just find some passages from the books, it's annoying to have to try to wade through it.[/quote'] I assure you, some of the slashfic I glimpsed there was very, very wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCoy Posted July 31, 2012 Report Share Posted July 31, 2012 Re: Tolkien Elves in Hero Wasn't the power of the Elves gradually waning over the Second and Third Ages? While undoubtedly still bada$$' date=' Galadriel was probably a shadow of her First Age self. Knocking over Dol Guldur is no mean feat, but it's not as though Sauron was in it, and she had Thranduil and Celeborn backing her up.[/quote'] Galadriel and Elrond had not waned, because of their rings. Presumably Celeborn began waning after giving his ring to Gandolf, so he had been without it only about 2000 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 Re: Tolkien Elves in Hero One question regarding elves "conenction with the land" and "seeing the spirit world at the same time": Could this be enough information to avoid being fooled by Shape Shift and Illusions? Havign soem detect on the Mental group? Detecting Mental Manipulation in action? Could be. Exactly how acute their perceptions are no doubt depends on the individual Elf. And Elves are not infallible; the One Ring for example was capable of concealing its wearer from their awareness. Lucius Alexander The palindromedary thinks that duality of perception - which the Elves do not themselves percieve as duality but as a unity - is the key to understanding Tollkein's Elves Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 Re: Tolkien Elves in Hero Wasn't the power of the Elves gradually waning over the Second and Third Ages? While undoubtedly still bada$$' date=' Galadriel was probably a shadow of her First Age self. Knocking over Dol Guldur is no mean feat, but it's not as though Sauron was in it, and she had Thranduil and Celeborn backing her up.[/quote'] Isn't when Dol Guldur fell, when the Necromancer/Sauron went back to Mordor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkdguy Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 Re: Tolkien Elves in Hero I'd say Galadriel, Elrond and all were more powerful by the end of the Third Age because of their long years of experience, although the rings helped. I don't think the Elves had waned much until Sauron was defeated, although the process may have started. Celeborn at least remained in Middle-earth for a while, as did Cirdan. Sauron was no longer staying in Dol Guldur during the War of the Ring, although it was still one of his major strongholds. I think it was commanded by Khamul (second of the Nazgul), although he was in Barad Dur when it fell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markdoc Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 Re: Tolkien Elves in Hero I'd say Galadriel' date=' Elrond and all were more powerful by the end of the Third Age because of their long years of experience, although the rings helped. I don't think the Elves had waned much until Sauron was defeated, although the process may have started. Celeborn at least remained in Middle-earth for a while, as did Cirdan.[/quote'] Tolkein made it pretty plain in his notes that they had all "waned", meaning become less powerful, and less magical - even Gandalf. Those who wore the three rings were able to delay the process, but not reverse it. Even Sauron was less powerful than his earlier self, having lost his shapechanging and creation abilities. You can cover up a lot, of course with experience and a few well-planned acts of treachery but as Tolkien had intended it, the process of "normalisation" was unavoidable. cheers, Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted August 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 Re: Tolkien Elves in Hero Could be. Exactly how acute their perceptions are no doubt depends on the individual Elf. And Elves are not infallible; the One Ring for example was capable of concealing its wearer from their awareness. This is why I tend towards making it a sense in (for example) the mental group. Adding Mental Invisibility to the Ring's powers is easy enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markdoc Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 Re: Tolkien Elves in Hero I'd be inclined not to waste too much time on specific builds and counterbuilds. I'd call it "Detect: spirit world" and make it a discriminatory sense. That'd let Elves pick up vibes from whatever spirits were resident in a region, sense evil when things like Nazgul are or were in the vicinity and so on. At the same time, the GM is arbiter of what is or is not in the spirit world, avoiding issues about specific builds. regards, Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted August 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 Re: Tolkien Elves in Hero I'd be inclined not to waste too much time on specific builds and counterbuilds. I'd call it "Detect: spirit world" and make it a discriminatory sense. That'd let Elves pick up vibes from whatever spirits were resident in a region, sense evil when things like Nazgul are or were in the vicinity and so on. At the same time, the GM is arbiter of what is or is not in the spirit world, avoiding issues about specific builds. Especially when dealing with fluff I do not know, having a clear ruleswise built is very important for me. I dislike having to interpret stuff I do not know fully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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