Pattern Ghost Posted July 12, 2012 Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities to-may-to, to-mah-to I see you've met my uncles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasha Posted July 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities This more or less answers the question I was going to pose which is. As a guy' date=' I am incapable of doing more than merely imagining what a gamer geek girl goes through. Being unable to understand the situation, how do I correct it? More to the point, how do I tell if I'm succeeding?[/quote'] Treat any woman (hell any person) how you would want to be treated. Give women the same benefit of doubt that you give other guys when it comes to talking about the hobby (ie assume that women are just as knowledgable as other guys.) Don't "help" unless it's asked for, and then help her like you would another guy. Watch how you joke around, it's really easy to say something foolish when you are trying to joke. Remember she might not think the same things are funny as you. So it's best to not joke until you figure out what she finds funny. Don't assume that a woman is there to pick up guys. Women game for many of the same reason as guys and picking up a guy isn't generally on that list. Also don't Monologue let her talk too.(Too many geeks monologue it's like they are trying to fillibuster their whole gaming experience or to drive their point through your soul) Also, try to not interrupt How you tell that you are succeeding. She will continue to talk to you and want to play in games with you. Same as a guy that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cygnia Posted July 12, 2012 Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities This entry over at Captain Awkward might give some help too. ETA: And since it appears to have exploded, I'll say that letter writer CS is an example of what NOT to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasha Posted July 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities Well' date=' first you ask yourself if you're treating everyone the same way you'd want to be treated. The original story had two elements: First, was the customer being ignored. That may be excusable as awkwardness or shyness. The second element was treating the customer in a condescending manner and being outright rude. I'm going to guess you may occasionally be guilty of the first, but less often guilty of the second. If you honestly don't have a grasp on not talking down to people because of their gender, then you should try working on it. I don't know of a method. Counseling of some kind may be helpful if it's affordable. Or, just find someone who's got better social skills and have them shadow you. After you interact with someone, they can give you tips on how to deal with customers (I'm just keeping this in a sales/service context, as I don't know what your job is and the OP is in that context*), and you can likewise shadow them, and they can tell you what things they consciously did to make the customer feel comfortable. That sort of thing is at least partly learned, and can be trained and learned. The next step is to simply talk to more women until you're more relaxed around them. Not with a dating goal, but just general socializing. Find some kind of group activity that has a good ratio of female attendees, and mingle a little.[/quote'] Well said and good advise. *And for that matter, a lot of customer service and sales skills can transfer to every day life. IMHO everyone should work sales (not as a cashier, but as a Salesperson or Customer Service rep). Because you will learn good social skills that will really help you in life in many ways that still surprise me to this very day. Also you will become a better customer. You will see how bad customers treat salespeople and Customer Service Reps and you will not every want to be "THAT" customer. You will also learn how to get what you want from a store when you need to interact with Customer Service or you want something extra. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawnmower Boy Posted July 12, 2012 Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities ...You will also learn how to get what you want from a store when you need to interact with Customer Service or you want something extra. Don't bother us. We're busy. Er, I mean, exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted July 12, 2012 Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities Don't bother us. We're busy. Er, I mean, exactly. Ah, I see you're a Walmart shopper. =D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted July 12, 2012 Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities Well said and good advise. IMHO everyone should work sales (not as a cashier, but as a Salesperson or Customer Service rep). Because you will learn good social skills that will really help you in life in many ways that still surprise me to this very day. Also you will become a better customer. You will see how bad customers treat salespeople and Customer Service Reps and you will not every want to be "THAT" customer. You will also learn how to get what you want from a store when you need to interact with Customer Service or you want something extra. I learned that from my parents. It's called "manners". bigbywolfe 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted July 12, 2012 Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities I learned that from my parents. It's called "manners". There's a lot more to interpersonal communications skills than just "manners." It starts there, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragitsu Posted July 12, 2012 Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities Treat any woman (hell any person) how you would want to be treated. Those into BDSM need not apply . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gojira Posted July 12, 2012 Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities Well someone had to go there I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt the Bruins Posted July 12, 2012 Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities Yeah, it seems to me that just using common courtesy and not dismissing/talking over a woman or gawking at her like she's a three-headed green monster will go a long way toward smoothing over some of the worries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vurbal Posted July 13, 2012 Report Share Posted July 13, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities IMHO everyone should work sales (not as a cashier' date=' but as a Salesperson or Customer Service rep). Because you will learn good social skills that will really help you in life in many ways that still surprise me to this very day. Also you will become a better customer. You will see how bad customers treat salespeople and Customer Service Reps and you will not every want to be "THAT" customer. You will also learn how to get what you want from a store when you need to interact with Customer Service or you want something extra.[/quote'] It's amazing how much easier your life is when you're the customer they want to help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. MID-Nite Posted July 13, 2012 Report Share Posted July 13, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities Honestly...if I was working at a comic/hobby store...I'd probably assume everyone com ing in was just as hyped on the subject matter as I was regardless of gender....unless they tell me otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cygnia Posted July 13, 2012 Report Share Posted July 13, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities More and more, I really appreciate my FLCS. It's owned and run by a woman and her son and both make sure their staff is respectful and helpful. So far, I've yet to feel uncomfortable there. *knocks on wood* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted July 13, 2012 Report Share Posted July 13, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities Our FLCS is run by a guy, but he's not a d-bag, so we're happy about that. My wife even used to have a pull box there for manga. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasha Posted July 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities Here's an article from a guy that used to play Warhammer with his sister when he was younger. She loved the game but when he started playing at a nearby shop, she stopped going. It was due to being the only girl there among all of the guys that treated her in a way that made her uncomfortable. http://thefrontlinegamer.blogspot.com.es/2012/07/sunday-sermon-is-our-hobby-misogynistic.html a Snippet of the article I'd always assumed that they'd just grown up, and decided toy soldiers weren't for them, maybe they'd discovered boys (or girls, I'm in inclusive mode today), ponies and teen magazines... turns out I couldn't have been more wrong. Looking back I realised my sisters love of the hobby started to wane when I started taking my armies to the local Games Workshop in Birmingham, and our local hobby club. This only occurred to me recently and looking back with all I've learned now as a grown man (if not exactly a grown up), I can see why. I'd kind of hoped it was because we were playing different sorts of game as opposed to the board games we mainly played as kids. Or that she had found other things and hobbies she was more into, after all she did do other things with her spare time. This it turns out was mere wishful thinking. No my sister told me some time ago she stopped playing Warhammer and other games because she didn't like going to the clubs and being the only 'girl' there, amongst teenage boys and socially awkward nerds who hit on her and were sexist towards her. Honestly when she said that too me many years ago now I was upset and a bit ashamed. Mainly because I was obviously not observant enough when I was younger to have noticed it, and secondly because my sister stopped doing something she loved and I was unable to stick up for her. If you're an older brother you'll understand how much that hurts. But many of those people she has spoken about grew up to be really decent blokes, I know this because many of them I counted as my friends. One even went on to work at the Equalities Commission, and has turned out to be gay, so perhaps he was over compensating for something. I'm sure if I raised there behaviour with them now they'd be massively ashamed and embarrassed. Some of the others though, yeah, they were complete ass hats, and to the best of my knowledge have always remained ass hats. But, now I'm going to stick up for socially awkward teenage boys here a bit. Puberty isn't a great time for anyone. It's difficult and it's embarrassing for us all at times, I'm sure many of the males in these places meant no offence to my sister. Many I know were the butt of jokes and bullying at school themselves, it's often the reason why many males end up in such hobbies. Most teenagers aren't really aware of what is and isn't appropriate, and studies have genuinely shown that for some reason teenagers have all the empathy, tact and social understanding of a brick to the face. Both males and females during this period push their boundaries to find where the limits are. But imagine going through that period of your life surrounded by members of the opposite sex pointing your awkwardness out to you? Pushing your boundaries? Kind of interesting.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted July 13, 2012 Report Share Posted July 13, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities You know, whenever I step into a local hobby shop, my interest in the hobby wanes too. It's hard to find a good game without a bunch of freaks or annoying people in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted July 13, 2012 Report Share Posted July 13, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities Dude, I'm right here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted July 13, 2012 Report Share Posted July 13, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities I know, I can smell ya. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragitsu Posted July 13, 2012 Report Share Posted July 13, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities I know' date=' I can smell ya.[/quote'] Wolverine! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted July 13, 2012 Report Share Posted July 13, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities Poor Hygine! ...sigh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted July 13, 2012 Report Share Posted July 13, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities Honestly...if I was working at a comic/hobby store...I'd probably assume everyone com ing in was just as hyped on the subject matter as I was regardless of gender....unless they tell me otherwise. When I was running a store I had one girl that came in with her married couple friends. When they divorced, she hooked up with the guy and kept coming in. She had no interest in the subject matter. I started leaving a few magazines on the counter that she was interested in. She'd look through those while he collected his pile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeropoint Posted July 13, 2012 Report Share Posted July 13, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities Well, if women expect men to wait while they try on a hundred pairs of shoes, it's only fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasha Posted July 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities You are correct, it shouldn't happen at all, any more than murder or torture or other heinous crimes should happen. But, due to mental imbalance or whatever, violence happens and people should be prepared to defend themselves. Spoilered for somewhat off topic There shouldn't be any more blocks to reporting this crime then reporting an assault, a theft, a mugging, an attempted murder, anything. I've read and heard reports from survivors that tried to report the crime, and got a "well, you didn't fight enough" or "well, look at what you were wearing". This makes no sense. If someone with a fancy wallet or purse is mugged, does that excuse the mugger? "Well, you were obviously rich, so of course you were mugged. Next time, try to look a little less fancy, then you'll be fine *patpat* Now run along and stop bothering the police with your little problems." We can't let this be a crime where the victim is at all blamed. However, this shouldn't mean we can't talk about self defense, or ways to avoid being a target. EDIT: Ouch, I didn't see the other responses. :/ I didn't mean to be brusque with you, Cygnia, or jump on your point. You can say that women should defend themselves/ don't get into bad situations. That is still putting the blame on the victim and not the attacker. It's not that easy for most women to fight back. Remember that most women are much smaller than the average male and not as strong. Yes, there are simple things that we can do to defend ourselves. It's bad enough that one has to worry about being mugged or killed in someplaces. It's worse when you have to weigh any potential alone time with a guy as a "is this guy going to try something?". Will he understand that when I say NO I mean just that. That just because I am dressed nicely for a night on the town. That doesn't mean that I want to have sex with someone. That's why it's really important that Men keep in mind that "No means No!" and "Don't Rape". We need both of those to become the fabric of our society, not the crud that makes excuses for the Rapist. For those who use the Murder is worse than Rape argument. I think that this video does a great job of explaining why Rape is Far worse than Murder. http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/5972-Rape-vs-Murder Warning: the Video contains a TON of Video game murder and death. The commentator drops a ton of F-bombs (in an engaging british accent which makes it feel strange). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barwickian Posted July 14, 2012 Report Share Posted July 14, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities the commentator drops a ton of f-bombs (in an engaging british accent which makes it feel strange). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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