Corsair Posted July 7, 2012 Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 Not that I can find 6th edition, but this is about pure economics. I mean, $80 for the core rules, and then $30 more for Champions genre - is it really worth $110 rather than just pick up a used copy of 4th edition for $10-20? Edit in: I got some mysterious notification as to where 4th edition could be found for that price, and then the notification equally mysteriously vaporized and never seemed to have a way to reply, but to answer the question and hope the asker stumbles upon my answe here: $10-20 locally in SoCal, depending on condition, but it's also on Amazon (used) for $20 and up. I also see 5th edition (non-revised but hardback) for $20 and up on Amazon. As I see it, 4th edition has the Champions specific material with it, and the 5th or 6th Basic, while I can find for roughly the same price and a generation or two later, don't have the Champions specific material and thus the price skyrockets to get that material. Though I see vague references in various threads to a character generator compatible with 5th and 6th edition...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted July 7, 2012 Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 Re: Current Champions or will 4th Edition suffice? 4th edition is a perfectly serviceable game. Is it worth the price of 6th edition? Well, it's been recently pointed out to me that you CAN still get "damaged" copies of the Character Creation book from the Hero Store at a more affordable price than they were charging for undamaged, and I know by experience that "damaged" from Hero often means "not so you'd notice." Or you can get 6th edition Basic which probably compares favorably to 4th edition. To me, 6th edition is worth it - but I'm not dealing with your budget or your priorities. If someone around where I live were to run 4th, I wouldn't turn it down. edit: I understand used copies of 6th edition are very hard to find. Meaning, those who have them want to keep them. That right there says something about the value of the game. Lucius Alexander Upgrading a palindromedary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsair Posted July 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 Re: Current Champions or will 4th Edition suffice? I guess that would be my second question - any particular reason to go with 5th edition, and I am simply confused by the basic edition and advanced players edition and their value/completeness/or just don't bother with the crippled version factor. I have Mutants and Masterminds, but so far I think I prefer the Champions model (which I used to play somewhere around 3rd edition, also Fantasy Hero). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asperion Posted July 7, 2012 Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 Re: Current Champions or will 4th Edition suffice? Personally I cannot see any reason to move to from one edition to another. From edititon one to three basically it was a refomatting of what came before. Edition four was basically a combineing of all the different versions of Hero (Danger International, CyberHero, Champions, etc). Fifth Edition basically correctied problems that appeared inb fourth. Then Sixth came along and made several changes (mostly in the area of char creation). Despite this there should be no problem with moving from one edituon to another. One can take a char created for fifth edition (FREd) and plunk him in in sixth (or fourth edition [bBB]) with little to no mods needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheQuestionMan Posted July 7, 2012 Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 Re: Current Champions or will 4th Edition suffice? What he said? Cheers QM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted July 7, 2012 Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 Re: Current Champions or will 4th Edition suffice? Fourth is a perfectly servicible game, so if you want to save money, it's a fine choice. If later you decide to upgrade to 5th or 6th, you won't have any major issues with compatibility. It shouldn't be hard to find players for a 4th edition game, though it may be easier to find a seat as a player in a 5th edition game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted July 7, 2012 Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 Re: Current Champions or will 4th Edition suffice? I guess that would be my second question - any particular reason to go with 5th edition, and I am simply confused by the basic edition and advanced players edition and their value/completeness/or just don't bother with the crippled version factor. Character Creation (Volume 1) + Combat and Adventuring (Volume 2) -- This combination of two books IS 6th edition Hero System. Hero System Basic Rulebook -- The same as the first two but stripped down. I have not played with it, but I have looked it over and it looks surprisingly complete to me. It costs about $20.00 new and in my opinion would probably compare favorably to an old 4th edition book in terms of how well you can run a game with it. It IS missing some things; as I recall for example it doesn't have Variable Power Pools, which are among the most complex and, for a beginner, hard to play of game elements. Advanced Player's Guide -- Brings in a lot of options and alternatives to the standard rules, including "niche" Powers - for example, it includes Possession as a Power for those who were never quite satisfied with using the Mind Control Power for that purpose. Lucius Alexander A palindromedary is not needed to play using the Hero System, but don't tell the palindromedary that, you'd hurt its feelings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted July 8, 2012 Report Share Posted July 8, 2012 Re: Current Champions or will 4th Edition suffice? Here's a thread where some kind folks gave very thorough answers when I asked what wasn't included in the 6th edition basic rules. Might be helpful: http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php/79180-So-what-s-NOT-included-in-the-6th-Ed-Basic-Rulebook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmokestackJones Posted July 9, 2012 Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 Re: Current Champions or will 4th Edition suffice? IMO, 4E will get the job done (5E - as in FReD - will also do the job, but those are even more scarce than 6E). I just started playing with my 8 YO grandson and the first thing I did was buy a copy of the BBB off a 3rd party and it works just great. I paid $25 for that and copies of the 3E Champions II and III (not necessary but good reads). -SJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion Posted July 9, 2012 Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 Re: Current Champions or will 4th Edition suffice? I upgraded from v3 to the BBB back when it first came out. It's doubtful I'll ever get v5 or v6. While I've heard of good things in later versions, I've also heard of stuff that wasn't so good. More good than bad, sure, but for me it just isn't worth it. Besides, no ruleset ever goes unchanged - every campaign needs a few house rules. Just as easy to house rule v4 to get what I want as to house rule v6. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsair Posted July 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 Re: Current Champions or will 4th Edition suffice? Thanks for all the replies - it helped me sort out the various options, which just appeared confusing before. I simply got the Heroes Basic set for the moment ($15 because I know the right people). Basically, I wanted it to come in cheap for now for initial planning, and can expand later if I happen to feel like it and have it compatible as possible with the latest and greatest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted July 10, 2012 Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 Re: Current Champions or will 4th Edition suffice? Though I see vague references in various threads to a character generator compatible with 5th and 6th edition...?can Hero Designer is available for download and can help generate characters for both of those editions. Lucius Alexander The palindromedary just got a hard copy of Hero Basic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassandra Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 Re: Current Champions or will 4th Edition suffice? Use what you got. I do (you should see me in a little black dress.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinecone Posted July 22, 2012 Report Share Posted July 22, 2012 Re: Current Champions or will 4th Edition suffice? Not that I can find 6th edition' date=' but this is about pure economics. I mean, $80 for the core rules, and then $30 more for Champions genre - is it [i']really[/i] worth $110 rather than just pick up a used copy of 4th edition for $10-20? Edit in: I got some mysterious notification as to where 4th edition could be found for that price, and then the notification equally mysteriously vaporized and never seemed to have a way to reply, but to answer the question and hope the asker stumbles upon my answe here: $10-20 locally in SoCal, depending on condition, but it's also on Amazon (used) for $20 and up. I also see 5th edition (non-revised but hardback) for $20 and up on Amazon. As I see it, 4th edition has the Champions specific material with it, and the 5th or 6th Basic, while I can find for roughly the same price and a generation or two later, don't have the Champions specific material and thus the price skyrockets to get that material. Though I see vague references in various threads to a character generator compatible with 5th and 6th edition...? 6Th has a lot of bells and whistles, but Champs is champs....just be ready for a little fanboy whining about not being "cutting edge" 4th is way fine, 5th made a few good changes, and a bunch of "meh" changes....6Th made some big changes, that some don't like...its really not nessisary to buy 6th if money is tight...you can always "upgrade" later... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tancred Posted July 23, 2012 Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 Re: Current Champions or will 4th Edition suffice? Corsair, the "character generator" you mention in your original post is the program known as Hero Designer. For $25, it makes it incredibly easy to create anything you can build with Hero. The very short version is that if you have the $25 in your gaming budget it's a terrific deal. HD is a terrific and easy-to-use program and makes my job as GM a LOT easier. You can get Hero Designer versions of an enormous number of characters, vehicles, monsters, enchanted items, you name it, for good prices. Especially with the 5th Edition stuff on sale. And the current version of HD fully supports both 5th and 6th Editions of the Hero rules. But I understand budget concerns; my gaming budget has dropped to practically nothing over the last couple of years too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawnmower Boy Posted July 23, 2012 Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 Re: Current Champions or will 4th Edition suffice? Use what you got. I do (you should see me in a little black dress.) Exactly what I was going to say. Though when I forget to shave it's hard to tell that I'm wearing a little black dress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasha Posted July 24, 2012 Report Share Posted July 24, 2012 Re: Current Champions or will 4th Edition suffice? Not that I can find 6th edition' date=' but this is about pure economics. I mean, $80 for the core rules, and then $30 more for Champions genre - is it [i']really[/i] worth $110 rather than just pick up a used copy of 4th edition for $10-20? Edit in: I got some mysterious notification as to where 4th edition could be found for that price, and then the notification equally mysteriously vaporized and never seemed to have a way to reply, but to answer the question and hope the asker stumbles upon my answe here: $10-20 locally in SoCal, depending on condition, but it's also on Amazon (used) for $20 and up. I also see 5th edition (non-revised but hardback) for $20 and up on Amazon. As I see it, 4th edition has the Champions specific material with it, and the 5th or 6th Basic, while I can find for roughly the same price and a generation or two later, don't have the Champions specific material and thus the price skyrockets to get that material. Though I see vague references in various threads to a character generator compatible with 5th and 6th edition...? If you can wait a few months, Hero will be releasing Champions Complete for $40. Which is supposed to contain everything needed to play champions. It replaces 6e1 and 6e2 and the Champions Genre book. A really good deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Hiemforth Posted July 24, 2012 Report Share Posted July 24, 2012 Re: Current Champions or will 4th Edition suffice? Yup! If you can hang on a bit, Champions Complete should be just what you're looking for! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest steamteck Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 Re: Current Champions or will 4th Edition suffice? Use what you got. I do (you should see me in a little black dress.) I'm a mere mortal man . I don't think I would survive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sketchpad Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 Re: Current Champions or will 4th Edition suffice? Personally, I always liked 4th ed Champions. I enjoyed the product, the characters, and the feel of the system. That said, 5th & 6th are great updates to the rules, though I'm not as big of a fan of their CU. It's not a bad universe, just has a different feel for me I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assault Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 Re: Current Champions or will 4th Edition suffice? Agree about the universe. I miss Crusader, Starburst, and, of course, Seeker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsair Posted July 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 Re: Current Champions or will 4th Edition suffice? Thanks for the info on Champions Complete - sounds exactly what I want without busting the budget. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassandra Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 Re: Current Champions or will 4th Edition suffice? I wear red pumps with my little black dress, Steamteck. You'll come back just for another look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 Re: Current Champions or will 4th Edition suffice? I wear red pumps with my little black dress' date=' Steamteck. You'll come back just for another look.[/quote'] Okay, you've got my attention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 Re: Current Champions or will 4th Edition suffice? I wonder if Champions Complete will hit Amazon? I do like discounts. (Since I'm unlikely to actually play, though it's handy to have a set of the rules in case a game breaks out.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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