Tom Carman Posted June 8, 2012 Report Share Posted June 8, 2012 Re: A bit of clarification needed with sawed-off shotguns It a common "hit everyone around me" build. I see nothing munchkin in a Frost Nova' date=' Schock Nova or similar "hit everyone around me" attack.[/quote'] I should have been more specific: No Range, Personal Immunity on a big attack (clearly intended as a primary attack), combined with "Oh, I don't need to buy more than just base OCV" smells of munchkinism. That's the sort of situation in which I would rule that Personal Immunity doesn't apply to a fumbled attack roll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSAT Posted June 8, 2012 Report Share Posted June 8, 2012 Re: A bit of clarification needed with sawed-off shotguns My current martial artist's nastyest power is no range area drain. we've house ruled no attack roll is needed because its basicly an aura get within 8 meters and you start loosing body note its constant and always controled (a weaker form of always on) so if the power limiter gets broken run. note this power is considered by the char and the team (and their gov sponser) a last resort Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted June 9, 2012 Report Share Posted June 9, 2012 Re: A bit of clarification needed with sawed-off shotguns I think that the fumble (for ammo at least) is that you shoot the ground before you. Yes, but, why would you fumblefire sawn off shotguns more than 'proper' shotguns? you could argue that you just do, because all you are doing is describing what the rules say happens, but, well, that just makes me feel dirty, and not in a good way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted June 9, 2012 Report Share Posted June 9, 2012 Re: A bit of clarification needed with sawed-off shotguns why can't it be a dud round on a fumble hitting behind you would be easy if the shotgun was over your shoulder pointing backwards scattering left,right,up or down would just mean you had the gun pointed off target and it went off as it was being brought into play Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja-Bear Posted June 9, 2012 Report Share Posted June 9, 2012 Re: A bit of clarification needed with sawed-off shotguns Yes' date=' but, why would you fumblefire sawn off shotguns more than 'proper' shotguns? you could argue that you just do, because all you are doing is describing what the rules say happens, but, well, that just makes me feel dirty, and not in a good way.[/quote'] Well I never shot a sawed off shotgun, but I have shot 12 gauge legal guns. And I think it has to do with the kick. Which as I type this does seem contradictory to hitting the ground. But as you mentioned earlier, the general rule states that it goes nowhere, unless GM rules otherwise. And I think this is a situation where common and dramatic sense should over rule the general rule. I've been reading a book lately where it breaks down the rule and gives the principle behind the rule so that you can apply the principle to life instead of trying to write down the rule for everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted June 9, 2012 Report Share Posted June 9, 2012 Re: A bit of clarification needed with sawed-off shotguns Yes' date=' but, why would you fumblefire sawn off shotguns [b']more[/b] than 'proper' shotguns? you could argue that you just do, because all you are doing is describing what the rules say happens, but, well, that just makes me feel dirty, and not in a good way. Who said anything about fumbling more often? The chance to miss DCV 0 with OCV 6 is the chance to Roll a 18 (that with 0.something-small Chance) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted June 9, 2012 Report Share Posted June 9, 2012 Re: A bit of clarification needed with sawed-off shotguns Who said anything about fumbling more often? The chance to miss DCV 0 with OCV 6 is the chance to Roll a 18 (that with 0.something-small Chance) Did you read what I was responding to? That is where the mention of fumbling was made, and it has been referred to by others in this thread, including yourself. As for the fact that you have little chance to miss your aim point, well... 1. The maths assumes at least an OCV of 6, but I take the point - it is going to be very unlikely that it will 'miss', so... 2. Why bother having the rule at all if it is only going to affect play once in every 100 rolls or more? It simply is not worth having a rule that does nothing useful, requires a pointless roll, thus slowing play, and takes up valuable column inches in the rules, all for the sake of balance in a situation where balance really is not a factor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted June 9, 2012 Report Share Posted June 9, 2012 Re: A bit of clarification needed with sawed-off shotguns Did you read what I was responding to? That is where the mention of fumbling was made, and it has been referred to by others in this thread, including yourself. As for the fact that you have little chance to miss your aim point, well... 1. The maths assumes at least an OCV of 6, but I take the point - it is going to be very unlikely that it will 'miss', so... 2. Why bother having the rule at all if it is only going to affect play once in every 100 rolls or more? It simply is not worth having a rule that does nothing useful, requires a pointless roll, thus slowing play, and takes up valuable column inches in the rules, all for the sake of balance in a situation where balance really is not a factor. Because there could be other modifiers - an abismal OCV and you apply penalties, CE effects - that might come into consideration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeropoint Posted June 16, 2012 Report Share Posted June 16, 2012 Re: A bit of clarification needed with sawed-off shotguns I really, really don't like the idea that an attack fails to go off because the user missed. I'm trying to think of something more insightful to add here, but all I've got is that in my mind, whether the attack goes off should be a totally separate issue from whether it goes where the user wanted it to, unless there's something specific in the SFX or build to indicate otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted June 16, 2012 Report Share Posted June 16, 2012 Re: A bit of clarification needed with sawed-off shotguns Technically you could have a side-effect on the ammo. After all wet power won't fire. Shotgun shells were wrapped in cardboard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbywolfe Posted June 16, 2012 Report Share Posted June 16, 2012 Re: A bit of clarification needed with sawed-off shotguns I really' date=' really don't like the idea that an attack [i']fails to go off[/i] because the user missed. I'm trying to think of something more insightful to add here, but all I've got is that in my mind, whether the attack goes off should be a totally separate issue from whether it goes where the user wanted it to, unless there's something specific in the SFX or build to indicate otherwise.While I understand why you feel that way, the alternative, at least for most No Range Radius AoEs is an automatic hit, which is contrary to Hero's rule of thumb about absolutes in combat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted June 16, 2012 Report Share Posted June 16, 2012 Re: A bit of clarification needed with sawed-off shotguns It is not an activation issue, so the rules should not make it one: it is an accuracy issue. The obvious answer, to me, is to change the aim point on a miss. The aim point, the other end of the AoE, scatters right or left on a miss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbywolfe Posted June 16, 2012 Report Share Posted June 16, 2012 Re: A bit of clarification needed with sawed-off shotguns It is not an activation issue' date=' so the rules should not make it one: it is an accuracy issue. The obvious answer, to me, is to change the aim point on a miss. The aim point, the other end of the AoE, scatters right or left on a miss.[/quote']Which is fine with a Cone. What about a Radius? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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