building 6th edition power suits

[Christopher]

Re: building 6th edition power suits

 

Very true.

 

Of course, "out of power" was a far more dangerous thing back then, when only the chestplate was keeping Stark alive. So even if the armor was otherwise pristine, running out of power was still a life-threatening problem. But the importance of the chestplate faded over time, and was eventually done away with as I recall. I don't know if the current Stark (mainstream OR ultimate version) still has that problem of if they brought it back for the movies.

 

In any case, having the armor get shredded during combat just looks more exciting, and movies are a more visual medium than even comics. When you're getting hammered by fantastically powerful weapons/fists, or bouncing (or being dragged) along hard concrete surfaces, no matter how durable the armor, I'd expect to see some missing paint and the occasional dent.

I think one reason it wasn't shown that often, that it is extra work on the artist. Now that the cartoon/movie budgets are bigger, armor damage got really common.

 

In the most current incarnations what keeps him alife is the fist-sized "arc reactor" in his chest. When he overdrains him or has him stolen, he dies. It varies between "stops breathing" and "has a heart attack while fully conscious and able to respond".

 

One thing never really adressed is that the armor wouldn't prevent his bones from breaking or him otherwise getting injuiries when he is pummeled around, but then again injuries are a rather rare thing anyway.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: building 6th edition power suits

 

I tend to favor building power suits with HID simply for simplicity's sake and not having to deal with powers getting broken (unless they're specifically zapped by a Dispel).

[Tasha]

Re: building 6th edition power suits

 

Hmm...it IS possible to build a power armor with the limitation "Physical Manifestation" as opposed to Focus (OIF), but that build also calls for OIAID. "Unified Powers" are not exactly necessary unless ALL the powers are connected by special effect. Not all Power Armor users actually have "Unified Powers" as a limitation. In fact, I would only allow the limitation if there IS an extreme connection (perhaps a -0 Limitation for "Unified Power: Mutant", for example).

 

If all the powers operates on one battery, that can easily be handled by Energy Reserve (IAF, which others with the PS: Power Armor Electronics can figure out where it is and how to remove it).

 

All the powers in a power ARE united by a single special effect. That of being in a powersuit. What unified power really means is that If one power is effected by an adjustment power, all of the powers are. ie getting hit by a HUGE dispel would only have to dispel the biggest power to short out the entire suit. Like 5e's Elemental controls, the reason you are getting the limitation is because everything is hosed if even a single power is drained. It doesn't matter if the EC is Norse God Powers, Fire Powers or whatever.By taking the limit you are saying that all of your powers come from the same thing. Don't go complicating a limitation that is very straightforward, based on a rules intrepretation that hasn't been true for the last few editions.

 

It's not that all powers suck off the same end when using unified Power. It's saying that no matter how many powers you have, that they are all just part of a power suit or a way to use fire, or even being a mutant. It means that an opponent could Suppress, dispel, drain etc your power and you would lose that amount of points from each and every power that has the Unified Power limitation.

 

Also I can't see how Physical Manifestation works for a PA suit. I have always used it for things like wings that can be grabbed or entangled to prevent the power's use. I don't think that works well for PA suits unless they have wings (flappy bird wings like Hawkman)

 

People buy their powersuits differently depending on their character concept. Some take OIF, others OIAID, still others take one of those plus unified power, and a limitation that the powersuit doesn't work while in intense Magnetic fields. It all depends on the concept and the player's character building style.

[Christopher]

Re: building 6th edition power suits

 

That of being in a powersuit. What unified power really means is that If one power is effected by an adjustment power' date=' all of the powers are. ie getting hit by a HUGE dispel would only have to dispel the biggest power to short out the entire suit.[/quote']

Dispels aren't adjustment Powers. I thought so too because of the Adjustment Power Advantages. But Dispel and Unified have no effect on one another.

 

It's not that all powers suck off the same end when using unified Power. It's saying that no matter how many powers you have' date=' that they are all just part of a power suit or a way to use fire, or even being a mutant. It means that an opponent could Suppress, dispel, drain etc your power and you would lose that amount of points from each and every power that has the Unified Power limitation.[/quote']

I see Unified it as a form of Vulnerability to Drain.

There is normal Drain-ability.

There is having Power Defense.

And there is having unified powers.

 

Also I can't see how Physical Manifestation works for a PA suit. I have always used it for things like wings that can be grabbed or entangled to prevent the power's use. I don't think that works well for PA suits unless they have wings (flappy bird wings like Hawkman)

That sounds like you mean Restrainable, not Physical Manifestation.

Physical Manifestation is basically "can be Dispelled by Normal Damage/Killing Damage".

[Tasha]

Re: building 6th edition power suits

 

Ok I did look it up.

 

Unified power. Makes 2 or more powers vulnerable to negative Adjustment powers. If a negative Adjustment Power affects any of the powers in a Unified Power suite, it affects all of them in the same amount. Usually worth a -1/4, but could be worth a much as a -1/2 if drains vs powers are common (which I believe is a warning to GM's to not overexploit the limitation). Though I wonder if one could (with GM's permission) have a more limiting version of Unified power that makes the powers vulnerable to Dispels and Suppresses? perhaps adding another -1/4 to the initial unified power limitation.

 

Physical Manifestation gives powers a manifestation that is attackable. This would be like Iceman's ice ramps being the special effect of his flight. You can attack the ramp and cause his power to shut off. Attacking the power has to cause a hinderance to the player (Falling out of the sky is a hinderance...), but a physical manifestation of Claws that are breakable but instantly regen isn't a hindrance. Claws that take a few phases to regen is a hindrance. Still not sure how this relates to powersuits. I guess you could define parts of the suit that are attackable (ie the EB gauntlets, flight pack, sensory helm) and say that once destroyed that the PC cannot use those powers till repaired or replaced.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: building 6th edition power suits

 

While possible, I'm not sure I'd recommend it, since Dispel vs equipment/electronics/etc is pretty common. In the immortal words of Bugs Bunny ... "Remember, you're asking for it!"

 

As to the second, ... isn't that just a Breakable Focus? A physical manifestation can be activated again in short order (after a phase or two), not necessarily requiring lengthy repairs or replacement.

[Christopher]

Re: building 6th edition power suits

 

Though I wonder if one could (with GM's permission) have a more limiting version of Unified power that makes the powers vulnerable to Dispels and Suppresses? perhaps adding another -1/4 to the initial unified power limitation.

Supresses are Negative Adjustment Powers (nothing more than a special case of Drain in 6E) and thus already covered by Unified.

Vulnerability to Dipsel: Perhaps Linked. But in either way the powers in question must not be easy to turn on again or be important, or this won't be worth much.

 

Physical Manifestation gives powers a manifestation that is attackable. [...] Still not sure how this relates to powersuits. I guess you could define parts of the suit that are attackable (ie the EB gauntlets' date=' flight pack, sensory helm) and say that once destroyed that the PC cannot use those powers till repaired or replaced.[/quote']

The point of physical Manifestation is that you can re-activate the power as often as needed. But every activation has "effort": Extra Time, high endurance Cost, maybe just Concentration - that kind of stuff. So it only is worth anything if having the power shut down in a fight will put you at a disadvantage.

 

When Iceman could create a icesword that can be shattered and it takes him time to form, that is a good example for Phsical Manifestation.

My example Power Armor could "grow" armor plates and weapons from a crystall substance. They could be shattered and forming them was an effort, but she had infinite supply. But it was still a lot less convenient that just firing blast from your naked hand.

 

PM is the breakable part of Breakable Focus. But unlike a Focus it's not possible to take the ability away for good, only to destroy it when active. So I guess "Dispelled by Damage" would be a better name.

[Alex Williamson]

Re: building 6th edition power suits

 

I'm just getting back into Champions, so this is the forst time I've heard of "Physical Manifestation". Would this be a good limitation for a Green Lantern type character? I'm thinking about his blasts and telekinesis, maybe barrier as well, though I feel that's already a physical manifestation).

 

Back to battlesuits, I always built them as OIFs because I liked the idea of the armor getting damaged (I'd build tracks to see what got damaged first - great fun for a detail freak). I noticed that Independent is gone. I used to use that for generic battlesuits that bad guy goons would use in a sci-fi setting (suits were common).

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: building 6th edition power suits

 

I'm just getting back into Champions' date=' so this is the forst time I've heard of "Physical Manifestation". Would this be a good limitation for a Green Lantern type character? I'm thinking about his blasts and telekinesis, maybe barrier as well, though I feel that's already a physical manifestation).[/quote']

 

Not on every power; it doesn't work for Instant powers like blasts (though it might work for a Continuous blast), but would work perfectly on Telekinesis built as the breakable energy-hands or energy-bubble. The main question to ask before giving a power Physical Manifestation is 'If it does get broken, is it really going to impair the character for any length of time'? Flight with Physical Manifestation works because of, well, falling, for example.

 

Back to battlesuits, I always built them as OIFs because I liked the idea of the armor getting damaged (I'd build tracks to see what got damaged first - great fun for a detail freak). I noticed that Independent is gone. I used to use that for generic battlesuits that bad guy goons would use in a sci-fi setting (suits were common).

 

Independent left because it was unworkable; either you never took the Focus away, and thus the point break was never earned, or you took it away and the person got it back, making it no worse than a regular focus, or you took it away and the person never got it back, which meant he was suddenly jerked out of a whole bunch of Character Points.

[Alex Williamson]

Re: building 6th edition power suits

 

That makes perfect sense. Thanks!

[Christopher]

Re: building 6th edition power suits

 

I'm just getting back into Champions' date=' so this is the forst time I've heard of "Physical Manifestation". Would this be a good limitation for a Green Lantern type character? I'm thinking about his blasts and telekinesis, maybe barrier as well, though I feel that's already a physical manifestation).[/quote']

Absolutely. That is the way I would/will built my Violet Lantern Homage.

Telekinesis is at a disagvantage simply because it can be broken by another way (and quite often an enemies grab is broken with a Killing Attack in the comics/cartoons).

Barrier already has it's own breakign rules, so it would not go.*

Blast/RKA propably has it, but at -0. Or you just use Interference Rules from APG I 170**.

 

 

*I could see it workign liek this:

You create a non-englobing barrier with Physical Manifestation. It looks like "creating a Green Light Force Field generator that projects the force wall". As long as the PM has less Defense than the Barrier it would be balanced (after all it's gone after even one Body take).

 

**Here you can counter attacks by ramming your attack against it. The active points of the powers negate each other.

 

Back to battlesuits' date=' I always built them as OIFs because I liked the idea of the armor getting damaged (I'd build tracks to see what got damaged first - great fun for a detail freak). I noticed that Independent is gone. I used to use that for generic battlesuits that bad guy goons would use in a sci-fi setting (suits were common).[/quote']

As SciFi is propably is Heroic Level, the goons would not pay with them for points. They would pay with them for Money (wich means they are "free").

[JmOz]

Re: building 6th edition power suits

 

As I review this thread, it occures to me, that the problem is the default assumption on drain being against one power.

 

When you think about it, for the most part it does not make sense to require an advantage to affect one F/x, that should be the default. While it is true that some powers may need the one power, and the whole characteristic issue, it just seems to me that the default should be F/X, then this would be a non issue for the most part (as most adjustments would drain based on the F/X, if they match it works)

[steriaca]

Re: building 6th edition power suits

 

Let us review all the ways Power Armor can be built in the 6ed. (This, by the way, is why I love the Hero System. There is no one right and corect way to do things or buy things in Hero.)

 

1) The most common way, Focus (Usaly OIF, sometimes Unbreakable also).

 

2) Only In Alternative Idenity (OIAID). Usaly also with Physical Manification and/or Focus.

 

3) Physical Manification. Which is usaly defined as "OIF Focus Which Can't Be Removed, Except By The Will Of The User, But Can Be Broken".

 

4) Special Manifestation Of Effects (Example: Doctor Destroyer).

 

5) In a Heroic Campain, thay can be payed for with points, especaly if such things are not unusual in the campain.

 

6) As a Vehical.

 

7) As a Multiform. (Special Effect: I call my armor out from it's exterdimentinal storage area, and it forms around my body).

 

I'm shure there are many more ways than this. And all of them are 'official'.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: building 6th edition power suits

 

I disagree with 2 and 3. OIAID does not "usually have focus or physical manifestation" as well. I've never seen a power armor character use PM in official or fan made characters and it simply doesn't seem to fit how Power armor usually works. As to OIAID, that is usually taken instead of Focus, not in addition to it.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: building 6th edition power suits

 

Last I knew, it was flatly illegal to take Alternate ID and Focus on the same power.

[Christopher]

Re: building 6th edition power suits

 

Last I knew' date=' it was flatly illegal to take Alternate ID and Focus on the same power.[/quote']

In most cases. There might be a few exceptions - if the sword only appears in your Alternate ID but it can still be stolen for example. This is similar to how a focus on an alternate form works.

[Guest steamteck]

Re: building 6th edition power suits

 

A couple things, first, your 100 point example is not legal, as each "type" (Followers, Bases, & Vehicles) must be purchased seperatly

 

In addition most GM's would say no to PA as vehicles. I did however do something similar to the basic idea by building a basic armor suit and having a VPP to represent changes to the armor.

 

 

Actually this GM kind of likes them as vehicles. It also means you have to haul them around on/in other vehicles if you're not wearing them to get them place to place.

[JmOz]

Re: building 6th edition power suits

 

Not quite illegal, just you need alot more justification IIRC. As in I will pay the GM a 100 dollars type justification, per power...

[Bodkins Odds]

Re: building 6th edition power suits

 

Yes you see Iron Man's suit getting shredded a lot recently' date=' but in the old days it only seemed to ever run out of power. Not get destroyed every week or so. At the rate Stark shreds Iron Man suits in the movies, it's any wonder he has any money to finance new construction and his playboy lifestyle.[/quote']

 

Actually, going by my Essential Iron Man books, Tony's suit actually got shredded pretty often during his first 50 issues. Of course, he had at least three major suit design changes in the early days which probably contributed.