Cassandra's Corner

[Balabanto]

Re: Cassandra's Corner

 

So let me get this straight? You, rightly or wrongly, say that you don't have good enough social judgement to know what makes your friends mad? That's fine. But don't assume it's the same for everyone. Every so often, I make a mistake. But it is better to fix the mistake IN GAME than to do a backhanded editorial rewrite. That's what I hate most about comic books. It happened. Move on. If the player feels slighted, give them a shot at undoing it, but don't make it easy.

 

One of the things I have in my game is the one shot save your behind rule. You can tell me that you would really rather not die here, once, for one character in the world. And you get that. Be more careful next time. The coolest use of this rule was when one player blew his use of this for his fellow player. That was awesome.

[Greywind]

Re: Cassandra's Corner

 

So let me get this straight? You, rightly or wrongly, say that you don't have good enough social judgement to know what makes your friends mad? That's fine. But don't assume it's the same for everyone. Every so often, I make a mistake. But it is better to fix the mistake IN GAME than to do a backhanded editorial rewrite. That's what I hate most about comic books. It happened. Move on. If the player feels slighted, give them a shot at undoing it, but don't make it easy.

 

One of the things I have in my game is the one shot save your behind rule. You can tell me that you would really rather not die here, once, for one character in the world. And you get that. Be more careful next time. The coolest use of this rule was when one player blew his use of this for his fellow player. That was awesome.

 

That's obviously your opinion. I value my friends more than I value a game.

[Enforcer84]

Re: Cassandra's Corner

 

Temporary power subplots? The point is that the idea of player consent is silly. When you start playing a game, you enter into a contract with the gamemaster to participate in his vision of the world. The GM is god. You don't get a say. That's when roleplaying is at it's best, when you exist wholeheartedly in the world the GM is created and a little piece of you becomes that character.

 

When Spider-Man got six arms, it wasn't up to the GM get him out of the situation, it was up to his player, because he entered into that contract.

 

When the Avengers wound up in that situation, they had to make a decision, and live with the consequences. Consequences. That's the key word. Actions have consequences. They don't exist in a vaccum because the player says they should. I hate that philosophy. It drives me nuts. It takes away my fun when I play, too, because it means all players are NOT created equal. The guy who whines the most always gets extra stuff, face time, and things like that.

 

That's not a game. That's an ego gratification zone.

 

In order for it to be a game, the possibility of losing/failure/less than optimal results has to be there in a very real way. You shouldn't play roleplaying games to feel successful. If you are, you're not doing it for the right reason.

 

In every truly great game I've ever played in, you check your ego at the door. Sometimes, your character will soar. Sometimes, your character will fall. Sometimes, your character will die.

 

These things happen. You reach across the table and shake hands with the guy running the game and say "Thank you."

 

You have to be a good sport.

 

Or it's not a game at all.

Ok, again. Spiderman comics are not RPG sessions put to purty pictures. They are single storyteller devices plotted by a writer (or writer/editor team) there is no one "Playing" Spiderman during his six armed phase.

 

In game it is a contract. Player and GM agree to the cooperative story-telling. Again, you have to know your group dynamics. If a player absolutely hates those ideas these are things that should be discussed or you lose a player or at least spend time in a pissing match over it. If you and your players can't come to an agreement over what's fair game/fun then you lose players. That simple.

 

If the GM needs to check his ego too. Or find players that pander to it.

[Mephron]

Re: Cassandra's Corner

 

Just my two cents: "beating the villians" and "oh god I've got six arms what do I do" are both character challenges, just expressed differently. The issue should be 'how does the player deal with the challenge dealt him'?

[Enforcer84]

Re: Cassandra's Corner

 

True. I might be too hard on 'Banto on this one. I assume when someone joins a game he has a good idea as to what is going to happen. But the GM shouldn't have to run every plot element past his players for approval.

 

I also assume if a GM had an idea that involved "Power Subplot" that player would handle it maturely and bring up his issues appropriately. There's really no place in a game for tyrants IMO on either side of the screen.

[Mephron]

Re: Cassandra's Corner

 

Full disclosure: I am a former player in Balabanto's campaign and had a character get a huge change in a situation totally out of either my control or the character's. I rolled with it and it really revitalized the character.

 

He consulted with me on the current issue being discussed, and in my opinion, since it was PC action that caused it, it needs to be PC action to resolve it. (character using an attack rolls an 18 and blows open a mutagen container that sprays a bunch of people instead of kicking an NPC? When the PCs did not take reasonable recon actions like 'hey, what do those containers say"? The PCs kind of brought it on themselves.)

 

(I did not leave his games because of any disagreement with him; I left because I moved across the country, in case that was a question.)

 

But I think my original idea stands: when you put yourself into a campaign, you have a certain amount of control of the character given up, some to the GM and some to the dice. In return, you get an unpredictable play environment where things can happen. That's the nature of the games, in general. You also need to have trust that the GM will not deliberately screw you over so badly you want to cry or hit someone (so never play with John Wick, for example) and that there is a resolution to your challenge if you think it through and work for it.

 

If that trust is violated, you have the right to walk away.

[Greywind]

Re: Cassandra's Corner

 

That's all well and good. What I'm contesting is the "GM's word is LAW!" against the "co-operative storytelling".

[Mephron]

Re: Cassandra's Corner

 

Then I find myself asking: what do you consider 'co-operative storytelling' in this context? The GM gives you things to work through, be it a fight with a supervillian, an investigation, or 'crap my powers did something unexpected, what now'. You now have something to do to resolve it. Sometimes you don't get to choose what gets handed to you, which would seem to be your interpretation of "GM'S Word Is LAW!".

 

And frankly, any good GM would take a 'I'm not comfortable with how this is going' and work out a solution - but then, just saying 'this never happened' from that side of the screen is also 'GM'S Word Is Law', yes?

[Greywind]

Re: Cassandra's Corner

 

Let's say, for the sake of argument, that the GM and all players have agreed to play a superhero genre game in which adult themes would be addressed.

 

We'll name one of the characters "Sue". During the course of the game, one of the villains manages to get Sue into a situation where she isn't fully able to defend herself. Now the villain, we'll call him "Arthur", is a despicable mustache-twirler and no deed is too dastardly. Having Sue at his mercy he decides to violate her.

 

The GM and several of the players don't see this as particularly "wrong". It is a situation that was agreed to, mature themes. The first indication that there's a problem is when Sue's player leaves the table in tears.

 

But, it happened. The GM's word is law. Right?

[phoenix240]

Re: Cassandra's Corner

 

Communication is very important. Everyone has to make sure they're on the same page as much as possible. I think most groups develop a feel for what will work or won't work and everyone enjoys different things from the gm having total authority to the gm being more or less another participant in world creation. I've had players literally say do your worst and some that considered they're character sacrosanct except for their Stun and Body scores. Most gamers lay along that spectrum and its very important to find out where and either accept that or that some players won't be compatible with some GMs/games.

[Christopher]

Re: Cassandra's Corner

 

That's all well and good. What I'm contesting is the "GM's word is LAW!" against the "co-operative storytelling".

I can only answer for me.

I would actually consider doing Storyliens similar to what Balabanto describes.

 

but:

Only if the player explicitly asked for such a Storyline. I don't believe a group of heroes should use the Complciation Mechanic.

Instead everyone should just write down (plain english) negative experiences he would like his Character to have. Storylines like "stranded in the future/past without his powers". The fact taht a certian Villain/organisation keeps comming up repeadedly.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Cassandra's Corner

 

Impressive thread derail guys.

[Enforcer84]

Re: Cassandra's Corner

 

Sorry. I'm done derailing

[Cassandra]

Re: Cassandra's Corner

 

Valkyrie

 

Val Char Cost

40 STR 30

18 DEX 24

20 CON 20

10 BODY 0

13 INT 3

11 EGO 2

20 PRE 10

20 COM 5

20 PD 12

16 ED 12

4 SPD 12

12 REC 0

40 END 0

40 STUN 0

Total Characteristics Cost: 130 Points

 

Cost Skills

3 Breakfall 13-

8 CSL: Combat +1

3 Fast Draw 13-

3 High Society 13-

5 Money: Well Off

3 Riding [Horses] 13-

Total Skills Cost: 25 Points

 

Cost Powers

9 Damage Resistance 10 rPD 8 rED

25 Multipower (50 Points) OAF: Spear (-1)

2 u) EB 8d6, 1/2 END (+1/4)

2 u) RKA 3d6+1

25 Flight 10", 8x NCM, 1/2 END (+1/4), OIF: Aragorn (-1/2)

15 Multipower (30 Points) OAF: Dragonfang (-1)

1 u) HA +4d6, HTH Attack (-1/2), No END (+1/2)

1 u) HKA 2d6 [4d6 w/STR]

1 u) Missile Deflection [All Ranged Attacks] +5

14 LS: Immunity [Disease], Longevity [800 Years]

Total Powers Cost: 95 Points

 

Total Cost: 250 Points

 

150+ Disadvantages

5 DF: Beautiful Tall Blonde (Easily Concealable/Noticed)

10 Hunted: Enchantress (As Powerful) 8-

10 Hunted: Odin (More Powerful/NCI/Watch) 8-

20 PsyL: Honorable (Very Common/Strong)

20 PsyL: Protective of Innocents (Very Common/Strong)

10 SocL: Secret Identity [samantha Parrington] (Occasionally/Major)

10 SocL: Subject to Orders (Occasionally/Major)

15 Vuln: Ambushes/Treacherous Attacks, 1 1/2x STUN (Very Common)

Total Disadvantages Cost: 250 Points

 

 

I broke out my Marvel Universe guide and built this verions of Valkyrie. She is built for a 12d6/60 active point campaign. I'm using her current secret identity as socialite Samantha Parrington.

[Cassandra]

Re: Cassandra's Corner

 

Daredevil

 

Val Char Cost

20 STR 10

20 DEX 30

20 CON 20

12 BODY 4

18 INT 8

14 EGO 8

20 PRE 10

18 COM 4

8 PD 4

6 ED 2

4 SPD 10

8 REC 0

40 END 0

32 STUN 0

Total Characteristics Cost: 110 Points

 

Cost Skills

3 Acrobatics 13-

2 AK: New York City 11-

3 Breakfall 13-

3 Bureaucratics 13-

12 Combat Luck +6 rPD +6 rED

3 Conversation 13-

3 Criminology 13-

3 Deduction 13-

3 Fast Draw 13-

1 FB: License to Practice Law

3 Lockpicking 13-

4 Martial Block

4 Martial Dodge

4 Martial Strike

3 Martial Throw

5 Offensive Strike

3 Oratory 13-

3 Persuasion 13-

3 PS[iNT]: Attorney 13-

3 Security Systems 13-

3 Shadowing 13-

10 SL: Overall +1

3 Stealth 13-

3 Streetwise 13-

Total Skills Cost: 90 Points

 

Cost Powers

15 Multipower (30 Points) OAF: Billy Club (-1)

1 u) EB 6d6

1 u) HA +4d6, HTH Attack (-1/2), No END (+1/2)

1 u) Swinging 15", 4x NCM, No END (+1/2)

25 ES: PER +1, Spatial Awareness

6 Running +3"

Total Powers Cost: 50 Points

 

Total Cost: 250 Points

 

150+ Disadvantages

5 DF: Blind Man (Easily Concealable/Noticed)

15 Hunted: Kingpin (As Powerful/NCI) 8-

20 NCM

5 PhyL: Blind (Infrequently/Slightly)

20 PsyL: Protective of Innocents (Very Common/Strong)

10 SocL: Secret Identity [Matt Murdock] (Occasionally/Major

25 Suscept: Sensory Overload, 3d6 STUN/Instant (Very Common)

Total Disadvantages Cost: 250 Points

 

 

Being blind is less of a physical disadvantage for Daredevil because of his spatial awareness. I've observed that while Marvel heroes have a variety of different motivations for crime fighting and adventuring they all are protective of innocents.

[Cassandra]

Re: Cassandra's Corner

 

Regarding the debate on Campaigning, I think the ground rules for the type should be agreed in advanced by both GM and players.

 

Silver Age would be light hearted with no killing.

Golden Age would have World War Two as a focus with limited killing by the heroes.

etc.

[Enforcer84]

Re: Cassandra's Corner

 

Nice Daredevil.

[Zen Archer]

Re: Cassandra's Corner

 

I've observed that while Marvel heroes have a variety of different motivations for crime fighting and adventuring they all are protective of innocents.

 

I think most comic heroes in general still carry a similar disad.

 

Silver Age would be light hearted with no killing.

Golden Age would have World War Two as a focus with limited killing by the heroes.

etc.

 

A Marvel-styled Silver Age game could still have plenty of angst.

 

Nice character builds, btw.

[kahuna's bro]

Re: Cassandra's Corner

 

too much IMHO

[assault]

Re: Cassandra's Corner

 

A DC-styled Silver Age game could easily involve alienated freaks, and end up with a TPK. Angsty enough for anyone, surely.

[Greywind]

Re: Cassandra's Corner

 

Yeah, but that was just the Doom Patrol. Not like they did anything important.

 

Except maybe leave Beast Boy alive to join the Titans.

 

[Cassandra]

Re: Cassandra's Corner

 

Marvel's Silver Age characters are a treasure trove of examples of disadvantages and limited powers.

[Zen Archer]

Re: Cassandra's Corner

 

So are many of DC's later Silver Agers like Deadman and the aforementioned (and awesome) Doom Patrol.

[Guest steamteck]

Re: Cassandra's Corner

 

Nice spider folk but 40 STr seems a little high if Power Girl etc only get a 50. Personally I'd lower their STR and up their DEX. Then again I'm old enough to remember when Spider-Man really did pretty much have the proportional strength of a spider so modern Spider-Man seems crazy overpowered to me.

[phoenix240]

Re: Cassandra's Corner

 

Nice spider folk but 40 STr seems a little high if Power Girl etc only get a 50. Personally I'd lower their STR and up their DEX. Then again I'm old enough to remember when Spider-Man really did pretty much have the proportional strength of a spider so modern Spider-Man seems crazy overpowered to me.

 

Maybe Str 30-35?