Ragitsu Posted March 10, 2012 Report Share Posted March 10, 2012 There are quite a few ways that advanced societies deal with their lawbreakers, including suspended animation, virtual jailing, and genetically engineering out the traits that led to said law breaking. What are some more examples? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted March 10, 2012 Report Share Posted March 10, 2012 Re: Ultra-Tech Punishments? Starcraft: Brainwashing into Marine. Other RPG's: One insect soceity with highly advaced genetic/biotech/cyberntic mix. Lowest punishement for real crimes is Exilation, wich basically means your nation throws you out. Best thing you can do is go to the land of of the humans. The worst punishment: You brain get's extracted, lbotomised/wiped of personality and installed as Central Computer of a Ship/Complex device. It's the easy way to get a working A.I. with Speech Interface. Warhammer 40k: Either memory wipe, or Servitor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Tom 2009 Posted March 11, 2012 Report Share Posted March 11, 2012 Re: Ultra-Tech Punishments? Let's see...in Babylon 5, they had what was called (if I'm remembering correctly) the "death of personality", which involved the total erasure of the convicted's memories and personality, and its replacement with a new set of memories and personality. It was only referred to twice that I know of during the series' run on TV, but was only done once as part of one episode. Something similar to that was mentioned in Michael Z. Williamson's novel The Weapon, in which "mindwiping" was briefly mentioned. In worlds where neural interfacing technology exists (say, for example, those such as described in GURPS Cyberpunk, GURPS Cyberworld, and possibly Shadowrun; it's been a while since I last looked at anything involving that last one), convicted offenders could very well be forcibly implanted with behavioral modifi- cation chips, which would basically program them to be either nearly mindless laborers, obedient soldiers, or (in the case of female offenders, for the most part) sex slaves. Where this last is concerned, a really cruel regime would not only implant the slave chip into the unfortunate woman, but leave her fully aware of what she's doing, but be unable to do anything about it. Of course, for the most truly heinous of crimes, the death penalty would still be in use (especially in those societies where repression of dissent is common, not unlike the situation that existed during the years of the Soviet Union's existence); only the methods of execution would be a little more varied due to existing technology. Major Tom 2009 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Posted March 11, 2012 Report Share Posted March 11, 2012 Re: Ultra-Tech Punishments? The old Star Trek's Mirror Universe had the "agony box". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCoy Posted March 11, 2012 Report Share Posted March 11, 2012 Re: Ultra-Tech Punishments? There are quite a few ways that advanced societies deal with their lawbreakers' date=' including suspended animation, virtual jailing, and genetically engineering out the traits that led to said law breaking. What are some more examples?[/quote'] I have never understood how suspended animation is punishing the perp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragitsu Posted March 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2012 Re: Ultra-Tech Punishments? I have never understood how suspended animation is punishing the perp. Not dying, but not quite living either: a kind of Purgatory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCoy Posted March 11, 2012 Report Share Posted March 11, 2012 Re: Ultra-Tech Punishments? Not dying' date=' but not quite living either: a kind of Purgatory.[/quote'] So they are aware of the passage of time while in suspended animation? I always heard it as they went to sleep, woke up, they haven't aged but a bunch of people they really weren't that attached to were now decades older or dead. "I missed my children's growing up!" Like they were going to be around, or even send an occasional support check, if they weren't in suspended animation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clonus Posted March 11, 2012 Report Share Posted March 11, 2012 Re: Ultra-Tech Punishments? There are quite a few ways that advanced societies deal with their lawbreakers' date=' including suspended animation, virtual jailing, and genetically engineering out the traits that led to said law breaking. What are some more examples?[/quote'] Spacing, of course. Memory erasure. Preemptive capital punishment using time travel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Posted March 11, 2012 Report Share Posted March 11, 2012 Re: Ultra-Tech Punishments? Not dying' date=' but not quite living either: a kind of Purgatory.[/quote'] Except for some hints in the Expanded Universe for Star Wars' carbonite freezing, I've never really heard of them being awake, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragitsu Posted March 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2012 Re: Ultra-Tech Punishments? Star Wars is but one setting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted March 11, 2012 Report Share Posted March 11, 2012 Re: Ultra-Tech Punishments? In Dogfight, William Gibson described the creation of "brainlocks" as a form of punishment. It was basically an artificially created, and extremely strong, phobia that would be removed at the end of the sentence (if ever). One of the protagonists was brainlocked against the sight of the Washington Monument, basically banning him from Washington DC; the other was brainlocked against having sex, which unfortunately did not actually put an end to the desire to have it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragitsu Posted March 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2012 Re: Ultra-Tech Punishments? A phobia that one desires? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmjalund Posted March 11, 2012 Report Share Posted March 11, 2012 Re: Ultra-Tech Punishments? soething less extreme thand mindwiping, would be redesigning personality to remove the tendency to do the crim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Tom 2009 Posted March 11, 2012 Report Share Posted March 11, 2012 Re: Ultra-Tech Punishments? The old Star Trek's Mirror Universe had the "agony box". Don't you mean the agony booth? Major Tom 2009 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranxerox Posted March 11, 2012 Report Share Posted March 11, 2012 Re: Ultra-Tech Punishments? Removing of immortality combined with exile. Long term sedation so that when you are released you are old but you have no or little memory of your sentence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundog Posted March 11, 2012 Report Share Posted March 11, 2012 Re: Ultra-Tech Punishments? The punishment of cryogenic freezing isn't the freezing - it's the cultural dislocation and shock that comes afterwards. We're seeing it in released felons today - at times greater than five years, they need time and support to reintegrate. Some of that is institutionalization, but another big part is social change. And this is in a situation where, by and large, there is some contact with the outside world. Freezing would eliminate the institutionalization problem, but the culture shock would be fierce. Think about how the world was in 2000 - now imagine being thrown from there to now. Rough, but dealable. Now consider someone from 1970. Now think of someone from 1950. Goodmness help you if you were from pre WWII... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted March 11, 2012 Report Share Posted March 11, 2012 Re: Ultra-Tech Punishments? Let's see...in Babylon 5, they had what was called (if I'm remembering correctly) the "death of personality", which involved the total erasure of the convicted's memories and personality, and its replacement with a new set of memories and personality. It was only referred to twice that I know of during the series' run on TV, but was only done once as part of one episode. Yes, in one Episode the relatives of the Victims wanted a more permanent solution. Also the Wipe got loose, so the offender wanted to be killed. End Result: The leader of the Victims group killed him - and got the same punishment. There was also this device that "healed by transfering life force", but needed to kill the donator to cure terminal illnesses or very severe damage. Basically you use the Life of the executee to save another life. In worlds where neural interfacing technology exists (say' date=' for example, those such as described in [i']GURPS Cyberpunk, GURPS Cyberworld, [/i]and possibly Shadowrun; it's been a while since I last looked at anything involving that last one), convicted offenders could very well be forcibly implanted with behavioral modifi- cation chips, which would basically program them to be either nearly mindless laborers, obedient soldiers, or (in the case of female offenders, for the most part) sex slaves. In Shadowrun 4E there is a special type of protitution called "Flesh puppets". Note that this can be voluntary. Basically you combine some plastic surgery, a personality chip and a memory filter (to protect the identity of your clients) to simulate doing "it" with a celebrity. A Variant of the Suspended Animation was seen in Star Trek and one Outer Limit Episode: A superfast Virtual reality, in wich the Offender lived through 20-40 Years of the worst imaginable (his imagination!) Prision stay, in the blink of a Day. Of course, each time a innocent person got in there and htings went haywire. Anotehr Star Trek: A highly telephatic and emotional species (similar to the vulcans without logic), had a law agaisnt "heavy, violent thoughts" because it let people of their race go nuts when you think violent near them. When Torres was accused of it (because somebody killed the merchant she had a disagreement with), they started erasing a few violent memory engramms - until Tuvok uncovered a that there was a Violent Thought Black Market wich was the real cause of the murder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCoy Posted March 11, 2012 Report Share Posted March 11, 2012 Re: Ultra-Tech Punishments? There was also this device that "healed by transfering life force"' date=' but needed to kill the donator to cure terminal illnesses or very severe damage. Basically you use the Life of the executee to save another life.[/quote'] Or in Niven's books executed criminals were parted out to the organ banks, which lead to lowering the bar on capital crimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted March 11, 2012 Report Share Posted March 11, 2012 Re: Ultra-Tech Punishments? In one game the "ancients, destroyed" civilisation had the ability to built coffins that also where power cells. It never got elaborated if they worked with death people, living volunteers (they were a little bit fanatic religious that day) or living criminals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barwickian Posted March 11, 2012 Report Share Posted March 11, 2012 Re: Ultra-Tech Punishments? Or in Niven's books executed criminals were parted out to the organ banks' date=' which lead to lowering the bar on capital crimes.[/quote'] That may be happening in China today. Execution is by a bullet blowing the back of the head off, angled so it doesn't affect the eyes (corneas can be harvested). Executed criminals' body parts used for transplants, and number of death sentences and execution in China is very high (estimates are 5,000 people a year - higher than all other nations combined). That being said, the Chinese government recently said it is taking steps to reduce the number of death sentences. Cloning reduces the demand for body parts, mind you - another thing Niven predicted after coming up with the organlegging concept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted March 11, 2012 Report Share Posted March 11, 2012 Re: Ultra-Tech Punishments? Do you know what the penalty for fraud is on Deneb V? Lucius Alexander The palindromedary heard that the convicted party actually has a say in their sentencing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barwickian Posted March 11, 2012 Report Share Posted March 11, 2012 Re: Ultra-Tech Punishments? Mindwipe/lobotomy/personality alteration - there are potential ethical issues here. Is a mindwipe just another form of death penalty? What of personality alteration (either by partial mindwipe, lobotomy, psionic intervention or advanced psychiatry)? Is it simply curing a mental illness or something more ethically unsound (consider Traveller's psionic Zhodani, who regard 'crimes' such as theft, murder, being unhappy with one's lot in life and dissatisfaction with the government as curable mental illnesses). A Clockwork Orange explores some of the ethical issues (the book does it better than the film). Exile or transportation might be used - transportation could be to an "prison zone" such as the Midwest ('Coventry' in Heinlein's Revolt in 2100), an island (Brave New World), an abandoned area of a city (Escape from New York) or a dedicated prison planet (sources too numerous to mention). There may be guards and authorities present (as with the British colonies in Virginia and, after some colonial types had a tea party without inviting us, Australia), or transportees could be left to fend for themselves. If guards and authorities are present, prisoners may be used as captive labour (state-imposed slavery, basically), and the employment may be hazardous. Even if guards aren't present in the prison zone (or planet), they'll likely patrol the boundaries to look for escapees. Tagging/physical control - already used to enforce curfews, house arrest, bans on being in certain places, etc. Do as you will be done by - if braintaping is possible, you could make the convict feel the pain of his victim by playing the tape back through their brain. A murderer or a mugger would relive the event from the victim's perspective. Mankind being what it is, I'd expect a black market in snuff braintapes to develop. Enforced paralysis/sensory deprivation - again, ethical issues arise (is it a form of torture?) Enforced paralysis (done either surgically or with drugs) would leave the victim unable to move, and possibly requiring IV drips, but their brain alert. Sensory deprivation is possible now. Extended periods of either are likely to lead to madness. The Long Death - you lose your access to rejuvenation tech and/or cloning, and must grow old and die while those around you remain young. Drafted - you (or just your brain) are conscripted into the armed forces. Stick a killer's brain into a cybertank, drug it up when not needed, unleash it on the enemy when it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barwickian Posted March 11, 2012 Report Share Posted March 11, 2012 Re: Ultra-Tech Punishments? I should add that there are four components to sentencing I can think of (someone with legal training may know better), and so far we've only really been discussing one of them. Societies will emphasise different aspects. 1) Punishment of the offender (what we've been talking about). 2) Rehabilitation of the offender 3) Reparations/compensation to the victim 4) Public safety A more draconian society is likely to emphasise punishment. A utopian society is likely to emphasise rehabilitation and/or reparations (unless it's a dystopia in disguise, in which case offenders may just disappear - see Hot Fuzz). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clonus Posted March 11, 2012 Report Share Posted March 11, 2012 Re: Ultra-Tech Punishments? The punishment of cryogenic freezing isn't the freezing - it's the cultural dislocation and shock that comes afterwards. We're seeing it in released felons today - at times greater than five years, they need time and support to reintegrate. Some of that is institutionalization, but another big part is social change. And this is in a situation where, by and large, there is some contact with the outside world. Freezing would eliminate the institutionalization problem, but the culture shock would be fierce. Think about how the world was in 2000 - now imagine being thrown from there to now. Okaaaay...I'm imagining it...imagining it... Nope. The changes in that time frame are no big deal. I wouldn't be happy to be suddenly dumped into a timeframe of economic depression, but I wasn't happy to be suddenly dumped into a time frame of economic depression the month it happened either. There are no actual cultural changes that I'd notice. Now consider someone from 1970. OK, I'm imagining...I'm imagining... Hey look at all the groovy phones! Other than that.... Now think of someone from 1950. The women all dress like sluts! This is awesome! Goodmness help you if you were from pre WWII... Wow, the food's so cheap and everyone looks so well-fed! This is awesome! Cultural dislocation is a silly punishment even if you are the kind of person who is bothered by being dumped into another culture because all it does is give that culture an under-educated desperately poor burden on their society. People who probably weren't coping all that well with their first society anyway. That isn't punishment, it's procrastination. Of course the intent might not be to punish. If crime is regarded as a disease, then people are frozen until they think they've found a cure just like cancer patients. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted March 11, 2012 Report Share Posted March 11, 2012 Re: Ultra-Tech Punishments? Development of the hand held Mobile Phone: 1973 Development of the first PC: 1970 Windows 95: 1995 (had no internet explorer back then) Internet as we knwo it: Not before 1990. And now picture youerself trying to find your way in the life: Friends? Long dead, old or on ice Job persecptive? "What is MS Word?" "You have learned what job?" You can't find a phone booth, because everyone uses mobiel phones. And you propably would be unable to make a simple call with any modern smartphone. You can't find a palce, because 95% of all offers are in thsi "Internet". About the "girls dressign like sluts"? Well, you ain't getting one of them, as a felon who can't even use a mobile phone with no job and no palce to life. Sorry Clonus, but if you don't see the difference you have a very limited ability to remember the world as it was and see the differences. Or you never remotely tried to imagine it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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