Possible HERO System Supplement Kickstarters From Steve -- What Interests You?

[Steve Long]

Re: Possible HERO System Supplement Kickstarters From Steve -- What Interests You?

 

Steve, what are your thoughts on a Kickstarter for a "6e Concise Rulebook" as discussed on this board?

Since 6e1 is OOP, and the new book would only be an editing rather than new writing job (although a substantial one) I feel it should be a high priority.

 

By and large it's not something I'm in favor of -- and it's certainly not something that I would do as an independent Kickstarter. That's a project for the company to undertake officially, if it wants to.

[Steve Long]

Re: Possible HERO System Supplement Kickstarters From Steve -- What Interests You?

 

Registering a complaint on the shipping prices; $30-$50 is higher than I've ever been asked to pay before. Shipping from the US to Canada is generally $10.

 

Narf, if you want to register a complaint you should post it in some thread pertaining to the company's own Kickstarters. This is one about possible future Kickstarters I might try personally, and I've said nothing about shipping. That's putting the cart waaaaay ahead of the horse.

[DreadDomain]

Re: Possible HERO System Supplement Kickstarters From Steve -- What Interests You?

 

Mythic Hero

 

Cyber Hero

 

Dark Champions for 6E

 

STORMlords

 

 

I'd be tempted by all of them and Legendary HERO (more than MH actually). As for how much I would pledge would depend on size of the book, production quality and shipping cost!

[Ndreare]

Re: Possible HERO System Supplement Kickstarters From Steve -- What Interests You?

 

STORMlords I would be willing to pay $50-$100 up front for. The other books I may buy after words just to keep my collection but would not seek out.

 

The more I think about it the more I want this book. My favorite genre is modern fantasy with the idea of covert and unknown things running around while us normals are oblivious.

 

I would definitly want to know when this book moves to kickstarter.

[Steve Long]

Re: Possible HERO System Supplement Kickstarters From Steve -- What Interests You?

 

As for how much I would pledge would depend on size of the book, production quality and shipping cost!

 

I certainly understand your thinking in saying this, but please keep in mind:

 

1. The book will only be written if the Kickstarter succeeds. Therefore there's no way to know in advance how large it will be (which also affects shipping costs).

 

2. The book will only be printed if the Kickstarter succeeds. Therefore there's no way to know in advance what the "production quality" will be -- particularly if pledges are high enough that I could offer to convert it to something better than initially planned.

 

 

So in answering the initial question, by and large I'd appreciate it if you ignored those factors, or included them in your answer. Suppose you saw the book on a store shelf -- what would you be willing to pay? It's OK to say, "I'd pay $60 if it were at least 300 pages long" or something like that. That at least provides me with *some* data to make my decision -- and all data's helpful!

[kjandreano]

Re: Possible HERO System Supplement Kickstarters From Steve -- What Interests You?

 

Howdy folx! As I promised over on the "Changes At Hero" thread' date=' I figured I'd toss up a brief thread discussing [i']HERO System[/i] supplements I'm considering doing as Kickstarters (see www.kickstarter.com if you're unfamiliar with the "crowdfunding" concept of Kickstarter and would like to know more). This isn't a formal poll or anything, but it never hurts to test the wind, so to speak.

 

...

 

Mythic Hero

I've already gotten some work done on this book, and it's a topic I love and a book I'd dearly love to finish. However, it's likely to be pretty big, and thus to require a lot of my time.

 

Do you like this idea? Would you be willing to pledge $25 to see it done? $50? $100? Some other amount?

 

...

 

Quick answer: Yes, do it just like "Book of the Empress" (same price levels and bundles) and I think it would work fine. I would really like Mythic Hero!

 

Villain: "Are you a god?"

PC Hero: "Actually, yes. Yes I am!"

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: Possible HERO System Supplement Kickstarters From Steve -- What Interests You?

 

Now that I too have a bit more data I'd pledge $25-50 for Mythic and Cyber, probably $25 for STORMLords. I'm not interested in Dark Champions 6E.

[Kaze9999]

Re: Possible HERO System Supplement Kickstarters From Steve -- What Interests You?

 

I would totally pledge $50 to get Dark Champions for 6E (as long as there were guns, lots and lots of guns)!

 

All four of these projects are exciting to me though, including the STORMlords setting, but I would want Dark Champions 6E first/most!

 

Unrelated, I ran across this on successful Kickstarter projects from my favorite web comic where they hit #2 all time for funds raised for a board game project: http://www.schlockmercenary.com/blog/funding-the-dream-ep22

[megaplayboy]

Re: Possible HERO System Supplement Kickstarters From Steve -- What Interests You?

 

Hmm. 15-25,000 needed for any major project(hardcover, 300+ pages, color). Average backer funds 50 bucks apiece. 300 to 500 backers needed for any future major Hero Games Kickstarter project. If you have a month to do it, that's 10-16 backers a day. I know this was posted on rpg.net and on the Hero boards. Would probably need to add one or more additional gaming forum to post it.

[Steve Long]

Re: Possible HERO System Supplement Kickstarters From Steve -- What Interests You?

 

15-25,000 needed for any major project(hardcover, 300+ pages, color).

 

As I mentioned in one of the other threads I think (should've locked all but one of them, dagnabit! ), right now my estimate is that for around $15,000 I could produce MH with no art. For b&w art I'd need more along the lines of $22-25K (accounting not only for the cost of the art but Kickstarter/Amazon's 10% cut). And all that assumes softcover. To make it a color hardcover I'd probably need $30,000 minimum.

 

I would dearly, dearly love to make MH a full-color hardcover book. But I expect it's going to be difficult enough just to raise the money to do it as a b&w softcover, so I'm not even planning for that. If it becomes possible, hey, happy surprise!

[torchwolf]

Re: Possible HERO System Supplement Kickstarters From Steve -- What Interests You?

 

After seeing how Kickstarter seems to work, and thinking a bit more about what I do know of these projects, I've reconsidered a bit:

 

Mythic Hero: I'd pledge $200 or more to make MH happen - and would love to see Mythic Hero as a full-color hardback. I'm also hoping if that goes well, Legendary Hero might become feasible.

 

STORMlords: $100-200, possibly more with more information. It does sound like a full color book but at this point I'm not certain it could work as a hardcover book.

 

Dark Champions 6E: After thinking about what could be done with this, looking more closely at the 6E vs 5E versions of equipment, and getting ideas for possible cool new solutions 6E and APG1+2 might offer, I'm upping this to $100+ without even seeing the DC6 trailer - more, if the result is a thicker book than the 5E version. I think this would work best as a softcover book; artwork may not be so critical for this kind of book.

Apart from my own reasons, I think it's sad that it's not easy to find DC 5E in print, which is another strong reason I want to back it.

 

Cyber Hero: I will initially say I'd invest $50-100 and maybe more given more information.

 

This will hold true unless a multitude of Kickstarter projects occur simultaneously.

 

(somewhat related: I'd like to see Hero System Skills [6E] in print at some time, but I'm not sure whether that's a Steve Long or a Hero Games project?)

 

It seems that projects made possible through Kickstarter _will_ be slightly more expensive than we're used to (and I'm saying this as an international customer as well) but I think it's perfectly reasonable to pay more for better products, and the Hero System books have a very high standard and value.

So my personal conclusion is this:

I'll currently be prioritizing spending less on other RPG materials, and more on Hero projects and books (where I include Steve Long, Darren Watts, Mike Surbrook and others), to ensure high quality of my RPG material consumption in the future, and I hope others will too.

[Steve Long]

Re: Possible HERO System Supplement Kickstarters From Steve -- What Interests You?

 

I'm also hoping if that goes well, Legendary Hero might become feasible.

 

If the MH Kickstarter succeeds, my next Kickstarter will be for Legendary Hero (with the usual caveat of "barring unforeseen circumstances" ).

[Steve Long]

Re: Possible HERO System Supplement Kickstarters From Steve -- What Interests You?

 

This will hold true unless a multitude of Kickstarter projects occur simultaneously.

 

One of the things that Hero Games, myself, and Darren are doing is trying to coordinate our efforts to prevent "Kickstarter overlap." Since we're all appealling to the same core audience, having two projects running simultaneously isn't a good idea -- a given fan only has so much money to pledge at any one time. So unless something unusual happens, this shouldn't ever be a problem.

 

Thus, when the BotE Kickstarter ends, I'll launch one for Mythic Hero. Hero wouldn't want to do another one right away anyhow; it needs to get the money from the BotE one, take care of all the details of handling the rewards and printing the book, etc., etc. So that leaves a window for me.

[Steve Long]

Re: Possible HERO System Supplement Kickstarters From Steve -- What Interests You?

 

(somewhat related: I'd like to see Hero System Skills [6E] in print at some time, but I'm not sure whether that's a Steve Long or a Hero Games project?)

 

That'd be a Hero Games project.

[Steve Long]

Re: Possible HERO System Supplement Kickstarters From Steve -- What Interests You?

 

It seems that projects made possible through Kickstarter _will_ be slightly more expensive than we're used to

 

That's possible. One thing Kickstarter does is make feasible creative projects that otherwise would never fly because a small, dedicated group of fans is willing to pay a premium to support them.

 

But I think there's actually some argument that they're cheaper, at least in the case of Hero Games products. Look at the BotE Kickstarter. For $50 you get the book, the PDF, and the Hero Designer Character Pack. If you just want the hardcopy book, then yeah, the Kickstarter is a little more expensive (though it may be the only way to get the book). If you want even two of those three things, the Kickstarter will be a significant savings over how they'll be priced in the Hero Games Online Store.

[megaplayboy]

Re: Possible HERO System Supplement Kickstarters From Steve -- What Interests You?

 

Thinking about Mythic Hero as a Kickstarter project, and thinking of some of the requests made(progressing fantasy PCs from legends to demigods and beyond, how to "build" a religion, running an "immortals" campaign, and maybe a "do it yourself" set of guidelines for building one's own deities) and that they might not be what Steve had in mind for the book, perhaps once the baseline funding level is reached, those extra materials might be available as a PDF to all pledgers, contingent upon MH hitting the new funding level. Just a thought.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Possible HERO System Supplement Kickstarters From Steve -- What Interests You?

 

That's possible. One thing Kickstarter does is make feasible creative projects that otherwise would never fly because a small, dedicated group of fans is willing to pay a premium to support them.

 

But I think there's actually some argument that they're cheaper, at least in the case of Hero Games products. Look at the BotE Kickstarter. For $50 you get the book, the PDF, and the Hero Designer Character Pack. If you just want the hardcopy book, then yeah, the Kickstarter is a little more expensive (though it may be the only way to get the book). If you want even two of those three things, the Kickstarter will be a significant savings over how they'll be priced in the Hero Games Online Store.

 

That's really up to you, isn't it? You could certainly set "$X gets you one of the hardcopy or .pdf", "$Y gets both" and "add $Z to get the Character Pack too". Y could be twice X and Z could equal X if you wanted. Or the .pdf could be $50 and another $10 adds a hardcopy and the character pack. I think, in reality, the Kickstarter project has forced some thought to go in to "what should a bundle price look like". The need to buy the .pdf (even if you don't want it) to get a hardcopy might actually deter some backers.

[Steve Long]

Re: Possible HERO System Supplement Kickstarters From Steve -- What Interests You?

 

That's really up to you, isn't it? You could certainly set "$X gets you one of the hardcopy or .pdf", "$Y gets both" and "add $Z to get the Character Pack too". Y could be twice X and Z could equal X if you wanted. Or the .pdf could be $50 and another $10 adds a hardcopy and the character pack. I think, in reality, the Kickstarter project has forced some thought to go in to "what should a bundle price look like". The need to buy the .pdf (even if you don't want it) to get a hardcopy might actually deter some backers.

 

Oh sure, for MH or any other Kickstarter that I did, I'd have to make my own decisions on what the rewards would be and how I valued 'em. I was just using the BotE Kickstarter as an example of a situation where backing the project is advantageous, cost-wise, to just waiting and buying the book later.

 

However, I should point out that there are practical limits on how varied a project launcher can make the reward levels. Too many reward levels can lead to choice paralysis (Kickstarter's own research on this is that 5-7 levels is optimum). Too many options within any given reward level can do the same, and can cause all sorts of administrative headaches. So I almost certainly wouldn't have a reward where "For $X you can pick Y of these Z things." Keeping the reward structure pretty simple tends to work best for everyone in the long run.

 

Though I will say I think I have some pretty awesome rewards in mind for the MH Kickstarter.

[Steve Long]

Re: Possible HERO System Supplement Kickstarters From Steve -- What Interests You?

 

The need to buy the .pdf (even if you don't want it) to get a hardcopy might actually deter some backers.

 

That may be, but with any business, particularly a small one, every variation on customer desire can't be catered to. I can't speak for Hero Games officially on this point, but at least as far as my Kickstarters are concerned, if someone's not going to pledge simply because they don't want a PDF, so be it.

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: Possible HERO System Supplement Kickstarters From Steve -- What Interests You?

 

The need to buy the .pdf (even if you don't want it) to get a hardcopy might actually deter some backers.

 

Interesting; I didn't take it that way at all. My take was essentially that you could buy the special thanks; or you could buy the PDF & Character Pack and get the special thanks for free; or you could buy the book and get the PDF/Character Pack and the special thanks for free; or you could buy the exclusivity of limited edition & authorial autograph and get the book, the PDF/Character Pack, and the special thanks for free; and so on...

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Possible HERO System Supplement Kickstarters From Steve -- What Interests You?

 

Interesting; I didn't take it that way at all. My take was essentially that you could buy the special thanks; or you could buy the PDF & Character Pack and get the special thanks for free; or you could buy the book and get the PDF/Character Pack and the special thanks for free; or you could buy the exclusivity of limited edition & authorial autograph and get the book' date=' the PDF/Character Pack, and the special thanks for free; and so on...[/quote']

 

You can certainly look at it that way. Practically, the book price would be the benchmark I'd use to set other rewards. Each copy of the book has an incremental cost, since it has to be printed, shipped, etc. Adding a copy of the .pdf to the book carries no extra cost, since we had to create the .pdf to print the book (that's a fixed cost that has to be covered by profit on each book, but it won't go up if I distribute another 1,000 .pdf's). It's quite a bit different from Hero's "Book + PDF is a small discount from the cost of buying both individually".

 

I'm commenting only on what may or may not influence the contribution. For myself, I look at the physical book, since that's what I want, and if the price is acceptable, that's what I'll pledge. Whether a .pdf is thrown in or not, no real change. But that's because I don't value the .pdf. I don't use Hero Designer, so who cares about the character pack? My wife might - she uses HD.

 

It seems like more art than science anyway - if you have 10 people pledge, say, $80, that's $800 towards the goal regardless of how many are international book orders requiring shipping costs over and above the book cost. Sounds like Kickstarter provides some decent advice on what's worked historically and what hasn't. That's bound to be way more valuable than my idle speculation (free advice tends to be worth what you pay for it - Kickstarter's advice isn't so much free as billed on contingency, since they get some of your $$ if it gets your product to succeed).

[Narf the Mouse]

Re: Possible HERO System Supplement Kickstarters From Steve -- What Interests You?

 

Narf' date=' if you want to register a complaint you should post it in some thread pertaining to the company's own Kickstarters. This is one about possible future Kickstarters I might try personally, and I've said nothing about shipping. That's putting the cart waaaaay ahead of the horse. [/quote']

*Slaps forehead* Yeah, it's the BotE shipping I have a problem with.

[karlindel]

Re: Possible HERO System Supplement Kickstarters From Steve -- What Interests You?

 

What I would consider paying for the proposed books (At $25 or less, I'd likely go for just a pdf copy, at higher prices I'm assuming physical books along with a pdf copy).

Mythic Hero - $50 or so for softcover black and white, up to about $100 for hardcover color

STORMLords - $25 initial interest, possibly $50 or more, though I would want to know a bit more about the product before committing that much

Cyber HERO - $25 initial interest, possibly $50 if the book has a lot of utility for non-cyberpunk games

Dark Champions for 6e - $25 or less initial interest, possibly $50 or more if it included some significant new material

[Bolon]

Re: Possible HERO System Supplement Kickstarters From Steve -- What Interests You?

 

I would get a Stormlords book if it was also an update of the Urban Fantasy Hero supplement. I would be more than willing to pledge 50 for that combination. I also think that Urban Fantasy Hero is ripe for the market with Grimm and all the supernatural type shows on TV now. If it was done as a kickstarter, I would think 50 would be good for the book and PDF. For those who don't use PDF's, they are great for anyone who uses computers with Itouch or Ipads or even projector monitor systems. Don't knock it until you try it.

[Steve Long]

Re: Possible HERO System Supplement Kickstarters From Steve -- What Interests You?

 

I would get a Stormlords book if it was also an update of the Urban Fantasy Hero supplement.

 

It wouldn't be -- that would make the entire book waaaaaay too big. It would certainly include a lot of Urban Fantasy-style character creation elements (such as Templates) for 6E, and some of those would undoubtedly be "duplicates" or rough "updates" of existing ones covered in UFH, but STORMlords is a setting book not a subgenre book.

 

Heck, the four main power sets -- Gun Fu, Magic, Martial Arts, and Psionics --- which I've already written up, are 75,000 words long -- 58% the word count of all of UFH. So as you can see the setting book as a whole is likely to be a pretty hefty beastie.