Power Armor Characteristic Purchase

[Uthanar]

I have a player with a Power Armor character. I'm wondering about the extra Characteristics that he is buying through the suit. He has picked up OCV, DCV, Str, Dex, Spd, and Stun through it. Are Characteristics standard to purchase with Power Armor characters? I was wondering about requiring Costs END limitation on them.

 

I know that I can deny the character the OIF at times or give it problems due to its mechanical nature. Just hoping to pick some more experienced folks brain on this. I know the Champions book mentions that the OIF character can pick up some problems as time goes on and they basically get more and more points to play with than others.

 

Thanks for thoughts.

[drunkonduty]

Re: Power Armor Characteristic Purchase

 

I'd allow the character to buy stats through the armour. I wouldn't require the Costs END limitation but it would certainly be an option I'd encourage.

 

Yeah power armour types wind up getting more points to play with. Just remember that there's a Power Limitation in place: sometimes you the GM get to limit the power in some way. You're obviously aware of taking the armour away. Of course it doesn't have to mean the hero gets his/her armour taken off them all the time. For instance: if the hero is in secret ID at some function and the bad guys attack the hero has to spend valubale time finding somewhere to change into their armour, assuming they could even have it with them.

 

ANd as a Focus the armour will lose a randomly selected power everytime it takes BODY damage. Be a real bummer if that random power is the END reserve that powers every other power...

 

If you've got any of the villain books have a look at some of the power armour types in them to get an idea of the "standard" way in which to do power armour.

 

cheers and good luck.

[Ice9]

Re: Power Armor Characteristic Purchase

 

Also, while power armor is not technically any more vulnerable to adjustment powers than anything else, I find that in practice tech-glitching things like EMPs,electrokinetics, super hackers, and giant magnets are some of the more common SFX-specific hazards.

 

Re: Costs END.

What I often do with power armor is to have a "base" level of operation which is just bought normally - no extra limitations, maybe even 0-END on the movement. Then I have an "Overdrive" ability - often a variable-slotted Multipower with extra strength, speed, weapon boosting, etc - with some fairly heavy limitations like extreme END cost, side effects (being at depleted power after use, or having a chance of breaking something), or few charges.

[Folded]

Re: Power Armor Characteristic Purchase

 

Also remember that, if the Power Armor is providing defenses, then it is assumed to be hit any time the character is hit and the defenses successfully reduce damage (in cases of partial coverage). So, every time your PA character gets a Blast lobbed at them, the armor may be taking damage as well. It's a semi-optional rule, but one that can be very effective at reining in the PA's abilities, which will degrade over the course of a battle. There are ways around it, but those ways tend to have the result of reducing the number of extra points the PA gets to play with.

[Alverant]

Re: Power Armor Characteristic Purchase

 

You have to pay END on STR regardless of it's bought through a focus or not. As for the stats, if you want you can justify buying O/DCV with Costs Endurance as a combat computer that helps with aiming or a mental shield for DMCV. Only problem is that you'd have to spend the END every phase whether or not you need it.

 

If you bought PRE through the suit (it looks impressive and the character feels more secure in the armor) that shouldn't cost END unless you can find some way to justify otherwise (can't say it can't be done, but I can't think of it).

[Ice9]

Re: Power Armor Characteristic Purchase

 

Extra SPD, I could easily see costing END (probably from the armor's END Reserve).

Extra CVs? Maybe, but it wouldn't be my first instinct - running a tactical computer takes several orders of magnitude less power than moving a heavy mech around or firing energy weapons.

 

 

The other thing (that I should have mentioned earlier) is that point total is only one factor in "how powerful" a character is, and not at all the most important one. Compare stats like CVs, SPD, DCs in the primary attack, and DEF to the other characters, and you should be able to see how well the power armor character is balanced. Saving points can get you more versatility, but so can something as simple as picking "magic" for your power origin.

[Hermit]

Re: Power Armor Characteristic Purchase

 

The "What Would Your Character Do?" (WWYCD?) Label threw me off, but to answer the question..well, judging by Hardpoint, a sample character in the core rules who has STR, DEX, CON, REC, END and SPD so while the specifics vary, yes, it seems characteristics are pretty standard purchases for a lot of powered armored types. In my own campaigns, I tend to ask for PA types to be pretty tough, say agent level, even without armor. It doesn't always fit their concept so I don't write it in stone, but i've found its useful to keep them from feeling helpless out of the suit, and at the same time doesn't make them overpower their peers while in the suit TOO much.

 

The other suggestions in this thread are also intriguing though

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Power Armor Characteristic Purchase

 

Defender from the 6e Champions book on page 188 is another good example. He has Str, Dex, Con, OCV, DCV and Spd all purchased through his armor. He also uses an Endurance Reserve to power all the armor's abilities (including the 'extra' strength it provides). The character design hasn't been changed that much since its first introduction. As far as 'starting characters' go I see Defender as nearly a perfect blueprint on how to do an homage to Iron Man . He's the main reason I've never tried to model the later. I would likely end up making a character that is extremely close to Defender.

 

re: OIF

As others have already pointed out power armor foci have specific rules for how other powers are affected when the foci defenses are exceeded.

This is not too different than if the character were instead constructed using OIHID & Unified Power (which together just happen to add up to a -1/2 Limitation just like OIF).

[Escafarc]

Re: Power Armor Characteristic Purchase

 

Just to add another option (for more experienced GMs), the Power Armored PC in my game built his armor as a[hold on while I but on my asbestos long-johns] Vehicle. There hasn't been a "balance" problem with it but it might not fit all games. Oh, back in the 4E days I remember on one of the Champions fan sites there were rules for a Battlesuit Limitation that were pretty good. But sadly I no longer have a copy and can't seem to find it online.

[Christopher]

Re: Power Armor Characteristic Purchase

 

I have a player with a Power Armor character. I'm wondering about the extra Characteristics that he is buying through the suit. He has picked up OCV' date=' DCV, Str, Dex, Spd, and Stun through it.[/quote']

As otehrs pointed out, those charactersitics are pretty much standart for PA-users and none of the writeups has any "Cost Endurance Limitation" on those values. If he has STR/Movement from the Suite and a Endurance Reserve, he can choose if the END for the STR comes from the Reserve or from his Personal Endurance*.

 

I also would remind the player that he should invest the "saved" points into something he can use while not wearing the armor. A simple way could be to first build the character without the OIF Limitation and max him out. Then apply the Limitation and invest the points into other things.

 

 

*The SFX behind this is usually that the equipment uses "body heat and kinetik energy" to power itself.

 

Also remember that' date=' if the Power Armor is providing defenses, then it is assumed to be hit any time the character is hit and the defenses successfully reduce damage (in cases of partial coverage). So, every time your PA character gets a Blast lobbed at them, the armor may be taking damage as well.[/quote']

Blasts are unlikely to damage a PA. The usually provide around 20 PD/ED, so it would have to be a awsome unlikely roll on 12d6 to do damage.

However, Killing attacks are ideal to damage Foci. Against a Power Armors they propably need something like "Penetrating" or 2 times AP Modifier, but it is fairly easy to build an "anti tech Killing Attack".

If you have it, take a look into the APG I 70. There are rules for Cyberkinesis (Mental Powers for Machine Class of Mind) and even how to hack a power armor (even if it technically hasn't the Machine Mind Class).

[dmjalund]

Re: Power Armor Characteristic Purchase

 

I can se DCV costing END (from an END reserve) but not OCV

[drunkonduty]

Re: Power Armor Characteristic Purchase

 

@Esafarc

No need for asbestos around me. Under the right circumstances I'd allow a player to use the vehicle rules. It's even suggested somewhere in one of the 5ed rule books as an option. I would certainly be careful. For instance: I have one mate who is a shocking rules rapist/power gamer and I wouldn't allow him to do so under any circumstances. But I'm sure you know your players well enough to decide for yourself.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Power Armor Characteristic Purchase

 

Here's a great example by Killer Shrike of what can be done with the vehicle rules regarding a power-armor special effect:

Mr. Goodspeed

[Marcus Impudite]

Re: Power Armor Characteristic Purchase

 

Not to quibble, but you seem to be mistakenly using the WWYCD ("What Would Your Character Do?") prefix when you should be using the How to Build prefix. Please correct that in the future.

[Uthanar]

Re: Power Armor Characteristic Purchase

 

WWYCD I thought was What Would Your CAMPAIGN Do. Clearly I misunderstood it.

 

Thanks for the replies on the thread guys.

[Heroic Halfwit]

Re: Power Armor Characteristic Purchase

 

Some thoughts, just to gig the creative juices:

 

My first response was, "What are the SFX that justify the characteristic increases?" And then I turned to Speed. To me Speed is primarily a mental trait, as a phase is an opportunity to evaluate the conditions and change one's strategy, so when I got to thinking how a power suit could increase one's speed, I thought of the old shooter video games where the computer would highlight targets for you. So if the power suit had optical sensors, it might have a targetting computer that would tag for highlighting things in a database that were threatening, like rifles or rpgs, tanks or what not. By highlighting these sensory data over all the others, it would speed up the process of target selection as the user would begin to rely more and more on reviewing only the highlighted data rather than the full panoply of the visual spectrum.

 

Anyway, my thought is, that as one relies more and more upon the computer to make these first cut decisions, it could be wrong. It might fail to identify as a threat something new that isn't in the database or it might highlight a friendly as a threat, like the old child with the lifelike gun problem.

 

Although it may lead to munchkinism and accounting nightmares, if Speed were bought through a power armor this way, I would also link it to the optical sensor powers, such that if the optical sensors go out, the Speed is lost as well.

[Christopher]

Re: Power Armor Characteristic Purchase

 

Although it may lead to munchkinism and accounting nightmares' date=' if Speed were bought through a power armor this way, I would also link it to the optical sensor powers, such that if the optical sensors go out, the Speed is lost as well.[/quote']

Actually your approach sounds more like a acounting nightmare.

 

3 SPD and +2 SPD, OIF is equal to 5 SPD in almost any way. Except one costs 5 Points less and is not always avalible at full power.

Putting any extra limitatiosn on it will only lead to SPD dropping in the middle of a turn and that is going to be an accounting nightmare.

 

As to why it aids his speed? Cybernetik or other Mind/Machine Interface (does not require surgery).

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Power Armor Characteristic Purchase

 

My first response was' date=' "What are the SFX that justify the characteristic increases?" And then I turned to Speed. [b']To me[/b] Speed is primarily a mental trait

 

I think applying your SFX preference to the game as a whole is generally a bad idea. Perhaps that CyberWare allows the speed of thought of the wearer to closer translate into speed of action through servos which react faster than the human nervous and muscular system.

 

If I can envision a combat computer enhancing reaction time, it's hardly a stretch to envision it doing so without an increasing likelihood of error.

 

Or maybe the wearer is simply more confident of his actions in the armor, and thus able to react quicker within than outside because he doesn't second guess himself (which is still a mental attribute).

 

There's lots of other special effects I'm sure others could come up with.

 

Would you give Barney the Brick a hard time as he tries to justify why he has a 5 SPD instead of a 3 when all his powers are based on being big and tough? If not, why does the powered armor archetype get singled out for such treatment?

[Alverant]

Re: Power Armor Characteristic Purchase

 

Extra CVs? Maybe' date=' but it wouldn't be my first instinct - running a tactical computer takes several orders of magnitude less power than moving a heavy mech around or firing energy weapons.[/quote']+2 CV that costs END would cost just as much END as running 10m. Sounds about right to me. Just remember the END rules are based on active points, not realism. The energy it takes to fire an energy weapon isn't accurately reflected in its END cost.

[jonstryder]

Re: Power Armor Characteristic Purchase

 

So I've noticed no ones really posted an example for this guy of a potential Power armor write-up. As such here is one. Do note that I typically use HD and the List option to keep aspects of powers together.

 

Now for Power Armor you got 3 ways it can be build. An OIF, an OIAI (Only In Alternate Identity), or as a vehicle (which can be abused, so its usually better to just avoid this). Now OIF would give an armor that can be considered portable, usually by it folding up into some sort of carrying case, but this is if the GM allows it, other wise such armor would be OIAI. Armor that takes a long time to put on would have just 1 aspect of it, not the whole list, have Extra Time applied to it (typically Resistant Protection).

 

Power Armor, All slots OIF (-1/2)

1) Augmented Strength -- +20 STR -- [20AP]/[13RC]

2) Augmented Agility -- +5 DEX -- [10AP]/[7RC]

3) Kinetic Buffer -- +10 CON; Limited Power (Only to resist being Stunned, -1/2) -- [10AP]/[5RC]

4) Augmented Reflexes 1 -- +1 OCV -- [5AP]/[3RC]

5) Augmented Reflexes 2 -- +1 DCV -- [5AP]/[3RC]

6) Augmented Reflexes 3 -- +1 SPD -- [10AP]/[7RC]

7) Armor -- Resistant Protection (20 PD/20 ED) -- [60AP]/[40RC]

8) Targeting Systems -- CSL (+2 with Suit Weapons) -- [10AP]/[7RC]

9) Targeting Range Compensator -- PSL (+4 vs. Range with Suit Weapons) -- [8AP]/[5RC]

10) Vernier Thrusters -- Flight 20m, x4 NCM -- [25AP]/[17RC]

11) Metal Strikes -- Hand-to-Hand 2d6n; Reduced END (0 END, +1/2), H-to-H (-1/2) -- [15AP]/[8RC]

12) Power Supply -- END Reserve 150pts/10 REC -- [46AP]/[31RC]

[Tasha]

Re: Power Armor Characteristic Purchase

 

I have a player with a Power Armor character. I'm wondering about the extra Characteristics that he is buying through the suit. He has picked up OCV, DCV, Str, Dex, Spd, and Stun through it. Are Characteristics standard to purchase with Power Armor characters? I was wondering about requiring Costs END limitation on them.

 

I know that I can deny the character the OIF at times or give it problems due to its mechanical nature. Just hoping to pick some more experienced folks brain on this. I know the Champions book mentions that the OIF character can pick up some problems as time goes on and they basically get more and more points to play with than others.

 

Thanks for thoughts.

 

Buying Characteristics though a foci is a Hero System Tradition. Str, Dex, Con, Body, PD, ED, SPD, Rec, OCV and DCV are all common stats purchased though Powered armor. I would recommend taking a look at Defender's writeup in Champions 6E.

 

What I would caution players about taking stats through the foci is that sometimes that item gets misplaced. Leaving them without powers. So it's probably a good idea to have a halfway decent Heroic Character out of Armor. Have the Armor boost the Stats to SuperHeroic Levels.

 

Also, I am sure that someone who posted before me (Yeah I only read the OP before I posted) pointed out that many suits of Powered Armor are actually Only In Alternate ID -1/4.

[Lucius]

Re: Power Armor Characteristic Purchase

 

WWYCD I thought was What Would Your CAMPAIGN Do. Clearly I misunderstood it.

 

Thanks for the replies on the thread guys.

 

I thought of World Wide Yearly Calender Delivery

 

Lucius Alexander

 

What Would a Palindromedary Do?

[Hermit]

Re: Power Armor Characteristic Purchase

 

WWYCD I thought was What Would Your CAMPAIGN Do. Clearly I misunderstood it.

 

Thanks for the replies on the thread guys.

 

No worries. It is an easy mistake to make if you aren't used to it.

[dmjalund]

Re: Power Armor Characteristic Purchase

 

we need an acronym glossary onsite