A curse that returns?

[Steve]

Hiw would you build a curse effect that returns after being 'cured' with Dispel or Transform?

 

What I'm thinking is that those two powers can remove the effects temporarily, but the curse eventually returns to afflict the character. The upside of the curse is that the other form is actually more useful than being a total detriment, like how the Hulk is both super strong and tough.

 

The example I'm thinking of involves a character shape shifted into an undesirable form. Transform could reverse the Shape Shift, but it always eventually 'heals' back. I've thought of three ways I could do this, but I'm not sure which is best, or if there's another way I could do it.

 

1) Regeneration: The character has a limited form of Regeneration that 'heals' Transform or Dispel effects used to remove the curse.

 

2) Accidental Change: The character complication always replaces the curse after it is cured. It might take days or weeks, but it always comes back.

 

3) The beneficial effects of the curse are all built with a naked advantage of Inherent with appropriate limitations on it to show that the base power can be negated for a time but not permanently.

[Doc Democracy]

Re: A curse that returns?

 

You think about having a double effect power - one to do the job in the first place, the second a triggered power that fires the double effect again?

 

That way the effect happens, when it is removed or dispelled, the trigger occurs to bring the effect back - perhaps delayed effect, or gradual effect....

 

 

Doc

[Steve]

Re: A curse that returns?

 

The trigger notion is an interesting idea. Repped.

[Christopher]

Re: A curse that returns?

 

I think that is a generous application of Handvavium.

 

I can give you what the rules say:

It requires a Major Transform to Add or Remove a Power to a Character.

You could specify that only a very special Circumstance can heal the Transform impartign the "Curse". But many spellcasters have a Major Transform that can take the Power/Complciation away, but this "Heal Curse" is defined as "Heals over Time". (if this is the background for a characters abilities, you can ignore the first one and simpyl state the later).

Anotehr way is to limit PC's/Most spellcasters to Minor Transforms and the "Heal Curse" is a Minor Transform, that only imparts a Limitation to the Curse (like "Not until next full moon") and heals once the curse is activated the next time (either because it was Full Moon, or something else "dragged it out").

 

I once considered how to build a power that is "Hard to affect with Transform, +1/4". The same way a "Inherent, +1/4" power can't be drained/aided, this Advantage would make it harder (but not impossible) for the power to be affected by Transform.

My Ideas is a "one step up the Transform chart" for the +1/4:

It takes a Severe Transform (explicitly targetting that power) to take it away*; a Major Transform would only affect it as Minor Transform; a Minor only as Cosmetic; Cosmetic transform would not work against the power at all.

My idea was are more or less self-acting VPP, that could also heal/negate any transform imparted on the character.

 

*That means even a "Turn to Stone" or "Turn to Frog" could not stop that power, unless it is cast a second time directly targetting that "transform resistant" power (wich requires Knowledge of it's existence).

[Folded]

Re: A curse that returns?

 

You could also build it kind of like an unbreakable Focus (this is Plot-oriented, not mechanics oriented). There is a very specific and difficult way that it can be broken permanently, but it treats any other attempts to remove it as a long term Suppress/Drain, with a specified Return Rate. Alternatively, the reversal (however done), only affects that particular instance of the curse (turns the Hulk back into Bruce), without affecting the curse itself. Could make for a very interesting plot line in a campaign.

 

I think the problem you're going to run into with doing it by the book is that, once a temporary solution is found, that will be used on a more or less continuous basis to suppress the curse. Or the player will decide they like the curse just fine, and it doesn't really matter how it could be removed. Both issues are addressable, but I'd consider them before implementing this in your campaign.

[Doc Democracy]

Re: A curse that returns?

 

ooh! oooh! Another idea after reading Christopher's comments.

 

What about a load of Power Defence with the limitation of "allows effect temporarily"...

 

This is essentially what you are doing, you are ultimately stopping the effect but allowing it for a time. Power Defence is what you would use to stop the effect and so perhaps you should use that as the basis of a more limited form of stopping the effect...

 

 

Doc

[Christopher]

Re: A curse that returns?

 

You could also build it kind of like an unbreakable Focus (this is Plot-oriented' date=' not mechanics oriented). There is a very specific and difficult way that it can be broken permanently, but it treats any other attempts to remove it as a long term Suppress/Drain, with a specified Return Rate. Alternatively, the reversal (however done), only affects that particular instance of the curse (turns the Hulk back into Bruce), without affecting the curse itself. Could make for a very interesting plot line in a campaign.[/quote']

The mains questions is: Is removing the Curse an Advantage (something the characters enemies are likely to try) or a disadvantage (something he is likely to try/let his allies try)?

When this is simply the background of the characters Powers, this is certainly an Advantage (it makes it harder to disable that power, even with Transform).

Unless it makes the Character an Antagonistic NPC when active, I would say it's an Advantage: even the Hulk was not "wanted" by Bruce Banner, but he was still part of his character and in effect his "superpowered form" the same way Captain Marvel is for Billy Batson.

[Christopher]

Re: A curse that returns?

 

What about a load of Power Defence with the limitation of "allows effect temporarily"...

 

This is essentially what you are doing, you are ultimately stopping the effect but allowing it for a time. Power Defence is what you would use to stop the effect and so perhaps you should use that as the basis of a more limited form of stopping the effect...

Would run afoul of AVAD Transforms (they don't even need "Does Body"). This can be usefull or problematic, dependign on concept and SFX.

[Ice9]

Re: A curse that returns?

 

If you're talking about a character who is built with the curse already in effect, then Dispel is going to be meaningless against them anyway - if somebody Dispels one of your powers (that isn't built with Focus) then you can just turn it back on when your next turn comes up. If anything, you would put a "disabled for [amount of time] when Dispelled" limitation on the relevant powers and complications to make the curse dispellable at all.

 

Transform is a little trickier. What you could actually do is your own Dispel to get rid of it. Something like:

Form Regeneration - Dispel Transform 1d6, Cumulative (300 points; +2), Constant (+1/2), Persistent (+1/2), Self Only (-1/2), Only vs "Curse Breaking" Transforms (-?), Extra Time (whatever interval is appropriate; with no Extra Time this would work within a few minutes).

[Doc Democracy]

Re: A curse that returns?

 

Would run afoul of AVAD Transforms (they don't even need "Does Body"). This can be usefull or problematic' date=' dependign on concept and SFX.[/quote']

 

I think that if all we are worried about is AVAD Transforms that have the special effect of removing curses then everything is shiny.

 

 

Doc

[Christopher]

Re: A curse that returns?

 

Transform is a little trickier. What you could actually do is your own Dispel to get rid of it. Something like:

Form Regeneration - Dispel Transform 1d6, Cumulative (300 points; +2), Constant (+1/2), Persistent (+1/2), Self Only (-1/2), Only vs "Curse Breaking" Transforms (-?), Extra Time (whatever interval is appropriate; with no Extra Time this would work within a few minutes).

Sorry, but not with Dispel:

6E1 194: "Dispel cannot affect the lasting effects of Instant Powers. For example, a character cannot use Dispel to “heal” the damage caused by a Blast, reverse a Transform, or to get rid of an existing Entangle".

I am not certain if you can Heal a Transform, ich check that back. Until then the Healing Condition or anotehr Transform are the only way to undo a Transform.

 

I think that if all we are worried about is AVAD Transforms that have the special effect of removing curses then everything is shiny.

When you have an hammer, you see a lot of things to nail to the wall...

If you have a VPP, Transform AVAD is pretty easy.

[Ice9]

Re: A curse that returns?

 

Ah, forgot that Transform counted as Instant. In that case, you'd want something like:

Form Regeneration - Transform 1p (Self to Original Form), Constant (+1/2), Persistent (+1/2), Reduced END (0 END; +1/2), Self Only (-1/2), Extra Time (whatever interval is appropriate; with no Extra Time this would work within a few minutes).

 

Which I think would accomplish it. The only problem would be if the "Curse Breaking" transform removed Form Regeneration as part of its effects. The only solution I could see to that is putting Damage Over Time or Uncontrolled on Form Regeneration, which is a little dubious but probably ok for this particular case.

[Escafarc]

Re: A curse that returns?

 

This is a lot like Marvel's Thing. Ben has been "cured" many times but always ends up back as the Thing. So I would go with a Complication.

[Steve]

Re: A curse that returns?

 

This is a lot like Marvel's Thing. Ben has been "cured" many times but always ends up back as the Thing. So I would go with a Complication.

 

OK. What kind of Complication?

[Escafarc]

Re: A curse that returns?

 

OK. What kind of Complication?

 

I think this would depend on the Campaign, Genre and/or Character involved. I think for the Thing I would start with a limited form of Unluck or Accidental Change.

[Doc Democracy]

Re: A curse that returns?

 

I should go look at the rulebook but working from my 5th edition brain, I would go for Dependence. Ben needs some constant medicine or he will inevitably transform into The Thing. Once you take away the cure, then the transform begins working on him....

 

Doc

[Doc Democracy]

Re: A curse that returns?

 

If you have a VPP' date=' Transform AVAD is pretty easy.[/quote']

 

Just looking at the rules, that might be true, but I do not think many players or DNPCs in my game would have VPPs that would easily be twisted to provide a dispel/cure curse with AVAD Transform characteristics. I still think we're shiny here...

[Escafarc]

Re: A curse that returns?

 

I should go look at the rulebook but working from my 5th edition brain, I would go for Dependence. Ben needs some constant medicine or he will inevitably transform into The Thing. Once you take away the cure, then the transform begins working on him....

 

Doc

That good for if the "curse" can only be cured in one way but in Ben's case he has been cured of being the Thing by more then one way and his return to being the Thing also been triggered by different types of events.

[Doc Democracy]

Re: A curse that returns?

 

That good for if the "curse" can only be cured in one way but in Ben's case he has been cured of being the Thing by more then one way and his return to being the Thing also been triggered by different types of events.

 

Yeah - it would require some working but I think the mechanic is essentially good for this.

 

The problem is that this would all be 0 point complication really - it is all character definition stuff and 'healing' back to your superhero persona could not be in any way called a complication - otherwise you lose your place as a superhero...

 

I would be inclined to use it as GM to estimate how many episodes I might have before the healing would take place - or would have to be delayed by further action.

 

It would be nice to know how many players you might have that want to lose their superhero powers.

 

Doc

[Folded]

Re: A curse that returns?

 

It would be nice to know how many players you might have that want to lose their superhero powers.

 

Doc

 

It's a trope that works much better in a piece of straight fiction than in a game. Would any player really be that upset being owned by Stormbringer? Or work that hard to get rid of the Thing's or Hulk's powersets? Not in my experience. Characters who are trying to get rid of a curse are largely motivated by a desire to live a normal life. People playing RPGs are not.

[Escafarc]

Re: A curse that returns?

 

I've played with a few who would totally get into it. And at least on the short-term would be an enjoyable story-arc to run.

[Christopher]

Re: A curse that returns?

 

Just looking at the rules' date=' that might be true, but I do not think many players or DNPCs in my game would have VPPs that would easily be twisted to provide a dispel/cure curse with AVAD Transform characteristics. I still think we're shiny here...[/quote']

In the Avengers Cartoon, there was an energy field "transformign everyone into Gama Monsters". The only ones immune where Thor, Hulk (and his Gamma-Villains) and everyone wearing a radiation suite or being injected with an antidote (provided by Bruce Banner).

I'll bet all marvel Gamma-radiates and Thor had: "LS: Immunity to Gamma Radiation" and this was build as "Severe Transform, AVAD (NND: Immunity to Gamma radiation)".

[Steve]

Re: A curse that returns?

 

Since the curse I had in mind was essentially an Always On Shape Shift, one of the 'advantages' it could have is an effective immunity to hostile physical Transforms. The cursed person would not be able to be changed into something else, since the curse would just revert them right back to cursed form. I'm thinking my best option might be to just write it up with the Inherent advantage to show that it can't be Dispelled or Drained, and since it is Shape Shift, physical Transforms won't work either.

 

Since the character can't control the curse, I'm wondering if taking both Always On and No Conscious Control would be allowable limitations.

[Christopher]

Re: A curse that returns?

 

I'm thinking my best option might be to just write it up with the Inherent advantage to show that it can't be Dispelled or Drained' date=' and since it is Shape Shift, physical Transforms won't work either.[/quote']

Why could he not be affected by Transform? Transform can do anything, inlcuding taking an Inherent Power away. There is no absolute way to make a power un-affectable, the same way there are no other absolutes.

[Ockham's Spoon]

Re: A curse that returns?

 

All Transforms have to have a defined way to remove them, so presumably there is a way to permanently remove this curse, but you would not want it to be obvious if you want to keep it going.

 

To have it reoccur even after being "dispelled", buy a Transform with a couple of levels of Difficult to Dispel, but then add a limitation "Temporarily suppressed if a Dispel would have worked on the base power. Returns at a rate per normal healing." (-¼). Now it looks like the curse can be removed over and over, but keeps returning, when it fact it is always in effect.