Enforcer84 Posted August 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2012 Re: I hate naming villages/Kingdoms Glad you liked it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozymandias Posted August 7, 2012 Report Share Posted August 7, 2012 Re: I hate naming villages/Kingdoms I tend to spend too much effort making names for my towns. However, I find that if I don't put the amount of effort I do into town names, they tend to sound lazy or same-y. However one thing I have found is that university building names can occasionally make good town names. I borrowed Marshack and Wingate from CCNY, Balliol from Oxford and Ashdown and Fariborz from MIT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barwickian Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 Re: I hate naming villages/Kingdoms Lots of inspiration in modern place names if you have a smattering of knowledge about the process. Many Old World place names have very mundane meanings once you decipher them. But they're weathered with age. The ageing process is what makes them sound cool and unusual. This method will require you to invent some name elements in your fictional language, or borrow some from an existing or dead one. I grew up in a village called Barwick-in-Elmet, known as Barwick for short (and pronounced Barrick, not Bar-wick). Barwick derives from the Old English bere-wic, which means beer farm or beer village. A thousand years ago it was an outlying settlement of what was then a larger village, Kippax (Chipesch, or place of the ash trees in Old English). The "in Elmet" part of the name distinguishes it from other 'beer farms'. Elmet was an ancient British (as opposed to Saxon) kingdom, one of the last surviving kingdoms of Yr Hen Ogledd (Welsh: The Old North), the post-Roman British lands that fell, one by one, to the Saxons in the 6th & 7th centuries. Yr Hen Ogledd is long forgotten, though one of its kings, Hen Cwl ('Old Cole') is remembered in a nursery rhyme. Barwick lies between Leeds (old name Loidis, origin uncertain) and York. York has an interesting place-name history. It started life (we think) as Ebarakon, place of the yew trees in a northern Brythonic dialect. When the Romans came, they Latinised it to Eboracum. There's then a bit of a linguistic disjoint. To the Saxons it was Eoforwic (boar-town), which morphed into Jorvik (horse-bay or horse-port) under the Vikings. The modern name derives from Jorvik (pronounced Yor-wik). That introduces us to an English/Norse place-name element: -wic. In Old English it could mean either farm/village or, later, river port/trading place. In the latter sense it's probably (ie, I believe but don't know) etymologically related to the Old Norse vik, bay or river mouth, which is one possible etymology for the word Viking. Place-name elements in old languages. This is what gives your fantasy place names a sense of age and consistency. Usually these elements are attached to the name of a person or natural feature. Here are some English ones (with examples of how they're used). I'm not going to be too worried if I mix some Norse or even Welsh elemets in, but I'll point some obvious ones out. -ley (and variants -leigh, -lay, -ly): natural clearing in woodland -thorpe (Norse): hamlet -ham: village -ey: island -hay: enclosure -inga- (usually a middle element): people of, usually in the sense of tribe or clan (Nottingham, old name Snotingaham - village where Snota's people live) -den: valley -don: hill -cester (and variants -chester, caster): camp, castle or fortress, usually applied to old Roman towns. caer- (Welsh): Castle, fortification (Caernarfon, Caerleon, Caer Paravel) dun or -dun (Ancient British, Gaelic): fort, stronghold (London). -burh (and variants -burgh, -borough, -brough): town, walled town -ville (Norman French): village, township -scire: country, area (bigger shires became administrative counties) Does that help? The basic idea I'm trying to get across is to make up some short personal names, make up some element names, and combine them. Let's look at some fictional examples: Language one - Glorantha Heortling, generated from EBON, the Everchanging Book of Names - one of the best RPG utils out there. Personal names Taind, Bonjard, Gritrumar, Eran Elements (I generate some random Heortling elements and assign meanings) horri - clearing arsi- marsh mer - people of gall - village rerth - farm gand - field Let's mix and match for place names: Taindorri, Bonjardmergall, Arsgall, Bonjammerreth, Erangand, Eranorri, Gritrumarrerth Those are kind of gutteral, but they're consistent, and a good start for further 'weathering'. Language 2 (French I, from Ebon) Personal names: Ermond, Cele, Herve, Arne Elements gand - clearing deric- marsh yrne - people of rielle - village ynis - farm jelie - field Mix & match: Celyrnerielle, Hervynis, Celegand, Arnegand, Ermondrielle, Ermonderic, Hervyrnejelie Totally different flavour, And again consistent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 Re: I hate naming villages/Kingdoms About what Andy said: A lot of german Villages end with "-rode". And the Substantiv Rodung means "Deforestation". Hence any good germanic sounding name vor any Village in a Forest could end on "-rode". Now you only need some geographic faeture or important building (church, palace, fortress) and you get a full name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markdoc Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 Re: I hate naming villages/Kingdoms Yeah, same in Denmark, though the ending is -rød. I work just up the road from Hillerød: the English version would be Hillingdon. It's got nothing to do with hills - Hille is the old word meaning gracious or pleasant so a direct translation would be Pleasanton - or maybe Pleasant Clearing. I never though it before, but if you have a general style for your kingdom, you could easily make up consistent names by simply typing in a simple english name (Mud Town, River Town, Harold's Town, Black Wall, etc) into google translate, choosing a suitable language and then "aging" it a bit, by smoothing out any difficult to pronounce syllables. So for your pseudo french medieval kingdom those places become Boueville, Flouville, Harauville, Mournoir, etc, while for your pseudo viking setting, they become Drulabænum, Elvebænum, Haraldbænum, Svartuveg, etc This has the advantage that you can note the English name and you'll have a handy reminder of the town. A place called Ømurlegadrullagat (Miserable mud hole) lets you recall the salient features of the town. Plus your players will be impressed if you can say Ømurlegadrullagat (it's URR-murr-LAY-gah-drool-ah-gut, more or less, with the capitals showing where the emphasis is) cheers, Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted August 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 Re: I hate naming villages/Kingdoms Dude(s), that's brilliant! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barwickian Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 Re: I hate naming villages/Kingdoms Dude' date=' that's brilliant![/quote'] Me or Mark? In a way, it doesn't matter. Place names tend to work that way in most cultures I'm familiar enough with to understand the names (Western Europe, East Africa, Arabia), and I suspect around the world. If you think of US place names, the ones that aren't using an old native American name or a repurposed European name follow the same pattern: Carson City, Harper's Ferry, Williamsburg, Virginia (named after the Virgin Queen), Houston, Miller's Crossing (is that a real place?). They just aren't weathered, because we still speak the same language. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted August 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 Re: I hate naming villages/Kingdoms Me or Mark? Yes! I changed it to reflect my growing appreciation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Ofeelya Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 Re: I hate naming villages/Kingdoms Here just have Taumatawhakatangihangakoauauotamateaturipukakapikimaungahoronukupokaiwhenuakitanatahu. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Marcus Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 Re: I hate naming villages/Kingdoms "Taum", for short. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndianaJoe3 Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 Re: I hate naming villages/Kingdoms Wow, that beats Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg by quite a ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barwickian Posted August 9, 2012 Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 Re: I hate naming villages/Kingdoms Then it's time to mention the Angelsey village Llanfair PG - in full, Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch (here's an .ogg file demonstrating how to say it) Like other places, its name has a meaning: St Mary's Church in the hollow of the white hazel near the rapid whirlpool of Llandysilio of the red cave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escafarc Posted August 9, 2012 Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 Re: I hate naming villages/Kingdoms Wow' date=' that beats Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg by quite a ways. That lake is going into my campaign world and I'm going with the alternate translation:D repped Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barwickian Posted August 9, 2012 Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 Re: I hate naming villages/Kingdoms That lake is going into my campaign world and I'm going with the alternate translation:D repped Hells yeah. And all the rules of Story dictate that either the PCs must Fish the Middle to resolve the conflict, or the boss will be the Middle Fisher, who must be defeated ro restore harmony. Or both. That's a kind of Zen Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Ofeelya Posted September 10, 2012 Report Share Posted September 10, 2012 Re: I hate naming villages/Kingdoms Then it's time to mention the Angelsey village Llanfair PG - in full' date=' Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch (here's an .ogg file demonstrating how to say it) Like other places, its name has a meaning: St Mary's Church in the hollow of the white hazel near the rapid whirlpool of Llandysilio of the red cave. I love translations:) Taumatawhakatangihangakoauauotamateaturipukakapikimaungahoronukupokaiwhenuakitanatahu means The summit where Tamatea, the man with the big knees, the climber of mountains, the land-swallower who travelled about, played his nose flute to his loved one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markdoc Posted September 10, 2012 Report Share Posted September 10, 2012 Re: I hate naming villages/Kingdoms At the other end of the scale I wen to a friend's marriage last weekend. It was held in a village called Ølsted or "Beer place" cheers, Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Marcus Posted September 10, 2012 Report Share Posted September 10, 2012 Re: I hate naming villages/Kingdoms Danes know what they like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barwickian Posted June 14, 2013 Report Share Posted June 14, 2013 Thread, arise! The Atlas of True Names gives some idea of what Mark, myself and others were talking about in this thread. Note that for York, they've used the yew tree origin I mentioned above, but translated it Yew Tree Village - hence New Yew Tree Village... Enforcer84 and Lord Liaden 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted June 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2013 Oh nice! Thanks for coming back! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawnmower Boy Posted June 15, 2013 Report Share Posted June 15, 2013 Re: I hate naming villages/Kingdoms Names for places are fun. Take "Buffalo, New York". Originally named by the French "Belle Flume" meaning (I think) "Pretty Waterfall". Mispronounced by the natives, then mispronounced by the English, now mispronounced by the Americans. Massachussetts means "Great Big Bay". America was named after a mapmaker who slapped his own name on a map. He'd never been there. Mount McKinley was named by a mapmaker who was sucking up to then President McKinley, trying to get a government contract. The mountain already had a name, "Denali". There are stories (probably not true, but you never know) of place names in Australia that translate to "Who cares?", "Why do you want to know?" and "It's your finger, stupid." In the spirit of such things, I use names like that. I tell the humans in the party that it's called "Kalawanda", and then tell the elves it means "Humans smell like fish". I find on Wikipedia that the folk etymology is actually "beau fleuve," which makes a little more sense, although it's still wrong. Fort Le Bouef (French "bison") gave its name to "Buffalo Creek," which gave its name to Buffalo. It's pretty clearly named for buffaloes, which, contrary to myth, were common in upstate New York, and indeed right down to the fall line at the moment of settlement. Which is pretty clearly because buffalo herds were being deliberately and very quickly spread by human intervention from the core refuges (if you can call the Great Plains a refuge) where they survived the Holocene extinction event. Then, of course, the European agricultural complex arrived and began displacing the buffalo-beaver-corn system inland. Since this displacement led to a massive ethnogenesis event in which "Indians" became "[white] Americans," it doesn't get talked about very much. Hence the folk etymology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawnmower Boy Posted June 15, 2013 Report Share Posted June 15, 2013 I'm going to call this "The dead thread that came back." Catchy, hunh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assault Posted June 16, 2013 Report Share Posted June 16, 2013 "The Incredibly Strange Thread Which Stopped Living and Became a Mixed-Up Zombie". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Marcus Posted June 16, 2013 Report Share Posted June 16, 2013 Lemming posted a lead to this link on facebook: http://www.kalimedia.com/Atlas_of_True_Names.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkdguy Posted June 17, 2013 Report Share Posted June 17, 2013 Here's a group of map with the place names swapped with their original meanings: Link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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