GoldenAge Posted September 30, 2011 Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 Hey all. I have a 6th Edition rules problem. I'm building a 50 Point Multipower... The Multipower (and all slots) have a total Limitation of (-1/2) for a Real Pool Cost of 33 (but that doesn't really matter). One of the slots is 32 STR Telekinesis (48 AP/32 RP). Now, here's where I get confused... I want to add Fine Manipulation to the power (adjusting the AP cost appropriatly to fit into the Multipower). My GM wants to limit the amount of TK Strength that can have Fine Manipulation to 5 points... Is there any way to limit the Fine Manipulation adder????? Is something like this even legal: Fine Manipulation 10 Points; Lim Only 5 STR TK (-2)?????? I could really use some help. BTW: I'd really like to avoid 2 TKs on the character sheet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted September 30, 2011 Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 Re: Telekinesis with PARTIAL Fine Manipulation??? How does this affects the Fine manipulation Roll? Would he make the Roll with 19 AP or with 48+10=58 AP? Have you considered two mutually excluse compund powers or compund Multipower Slots? (both adding to the same 5 STR base TK). Otherwsise a Limitation on the adders seems to be direct way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrosshairCollie Posted September 30, 2011 Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 Re: Telekinesis with PARTIAL Fine Manipulation??? AFAIK, there's no rule against limitations on Adders ... though I really have no idea how you'd do it in Hero Designer. Ultimately, though, I'm not sure this is actually a limitation. I've never seen someone using TK with Fine Manipulation where you were really using more than a couple of points anyway, because you were doing something like typing or pushing buttons or making a sandwich where using 30 STR would just be brutal overkill ("That's the third keyboard this week!"). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenAge Posted September 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 Re: Telekinesis with PARTIAL Fine Manipulation??? Thanks for the quick reply guys. Have you considered two mutually excluse compund powers or compund Multipower Slots? (both adding to the same 5 STR base TK). Otherwsise a Limitation on the adders seems to be direct way. I just did (below) Thanks! Would this be better built as a compound power? Something like: 27 STR TK PLUS 5 STR TK with Fine Manipulation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenAge Posted September 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 Re: Telekinesis with PARTIAL Fine Manipulation??? I've never seen someone using TK with Fine Manipulation where you were really using more than a couple of points anyway' date=' because you were doing something like typing or pushing buttons or making a sandwich where using 30 STR would just be brutal overkill ("That's the third keyboard this week!").[/quote'] Well, you could tickle someone to death. Or rip a specific rib out of someone's chest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ockham's Spoon Posted September 30, 2011 Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 Re: Telekinesis with PARTIAL Fine Manipulation??? I have to agree with CrosshairCollie; Fine Manipulation by nature is already limited in STR so I wouldn't give any limitation for it any more than I would make you pay for Indirect on your TK because that is the nature of the beast already. But then I don't know why your GM would specify that either. I would ask what the concerns are and whether this is a real issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenAge Posted September 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 Re: Telekinesis with PARTIAL Fine Manipulation??? How about this: Telekenesis: 20 STR; LIM: Gestures (-1/4), Noisy (-1/4) -PLUS- Telekenesis: 5 STR; LIM: Gestures (-1/4), Noisy (-1/4); Fine Manipulation (25 TK STR total) Active Points: 30 + 19 = 49 /Real Points: 20 + 13 = 33 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenAge Posted September 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 Re: Telekinesis with PARTIAL Fine Manipulation??? I have to agree with CrosshairCollie; Fine Manipulation by nature is already limited in STR so I wouldn't give any limitation for it any more than I would make you pay for Indirect on your TK because that is the nature of the beast already. But then I don't know why your GM would specify that either. I would ask what the concerns are and whether this is a real issue. Oh, you're not trying hard enough... Suppose I have Grond locked up and want to apply some enhanced interrogation techniques. How am I supposed to break his fingers through the shatterproof glass with just a 5 STR Telekinesis? Heck, it'd take more than a 10 STR TK just to keep his eyelids open... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrosshairCollie Posted September 30, 2011 Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 Re: Telekinesis with PARTIAL Fine Manipulation??? Oh, you're not trying hard enough... Suppose I have Grond locked up and want to apply some enhanced interrogation techniques. How am I supposed to break his fingers through the shatterproof glass with just a 5 STR Telekinesis? Heck, it'd take more than a 10 STR TK just to keep his eyelids open... Like you could break his fingers with 30 STR TK. Or 80 STR TK ... he's got, what, 40 PD? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted September 30, 2011 Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 Re: Telekinesis with PARTIAL Fine Manipulation??? Oh, you're not trying hard enough... Suppose I have Grond locked up and want to apply some enhanced interrogation techniques. How am I supposed to break his fingers through the shatterproof glass with just a 5 STR Telekinesis? Heck, it'd take more than a 10 STR TK just to keep his eyelids open... The question is what you and your GM think falls under Fine Manipulation. Could you give us some examples asuming a combat situation (the GM is encouraged to not use fine manipulation rules outside of combat and stress situations). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manic Typist Posted October 1, 2011 Report Share Posted October 1, 2011 Re: Telekinesis with PARTIAL Fine Manipulation??? Well, you could tickle someone to death. Or rip a specific rib out of someone's chest. What's the difference? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ockham's Spoon Posted October 5, 2011 Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 Re: Telekinesis with PARTIAL Fine Manipulation??? Oh, you're not trying hard enough... Suppose I have Grond locked up and want to apply some enhanced interrogation techniques. How am I supposed to break his fingers through the shatterproof glass with just a 5 STR Telekinesis? Heck, it'd take more than a 10 STR TK just to keep his eyelids open... Okay, that was disturbing. Still your point is valid, certainly there could be uses of Fine Manipulation that require a lot of STR. But I don't see that it will come up often enough to justify much of a limitation. Even if it did, that is going to be something like a -¼ on the Fine Manipulation Adder, so you save 2 points assuming there are no other limitations. For me that isn't worth the clutter on the character sheet, but obviously the GM in this case feels differently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted October 5, 2011 Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 Re: Telekinesis with PARTIAL Fine Manipulation??? After some thinking It might have a point in Limiting it to 5 STR depending on how detailed he makes the game. For example, you would need Fine Manipulation to pull the trigger of a gun, but pulling the trigger could require a lot of force in general (my brother was instructor in the army and a lot of sport shooters thought the weapons were secured because you need a lot more force to pull the trigger on a assault rifle). Or if he uses STR-Minimum, your Fine manipulation TK might not have enough STR for the Recoil. If he uses the Fine manipualtion Roll, the limit on STR might affect the Roll/how many AP count for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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